Be a woman!!

Post Reply New Topic

A recent comment got me thinking about the fact that women are free to tell men to "man up" with impunity. You will hear women opine on a guy's need to be a "real man," and tell men to "be a man about it." The meaning of these phrases is clear-buck up, get on with it, do the right thing, be honorable, ect.

But there's not really a parallel where it's common parlance to have a man tell a woman to "woman up," be a "real woman," or "be a woman about it." I suppose the most similar phrase is the entreaty to be more "lady-like," but I haven't seen a man dare say that to a woman in, um, maybe ever.

Try to tell a woman "be a woman!" and she would probably reply "umm, but I am already a woman", but tell a man "be a man" and he'll understand what you're talking about (which is 'be brave' or 'don't be a coward').

So three questions:

1) Why do you think in our culture we have these phrases that clearly delineate what proper male behavior is, but we do not for female behavior?

2) If hypothetically we did commonly use phases like "be a woman about it," what kind of behavior would the phrase imply was needed and can you think of a situation where you would use it?

3) Can a woman ever really define what constitutes "a real man?" Or can other men be the only true arbiters of real manliness?

I'm already a man. My penis told me so.

i always here the phrase 'real woman'. f*****s

Wow! a talking penis!!

Women have fought to throw off the chains of their sex role. People still try to impose definitions of a real woman, but different ideologies currently compete with each other to define the term. I think the idea of a real man has evolved, too, but less radically. This makes it seem like the idea of a real man has a consistent definition.

Great question, btw. I had to really think to come up with that idea.

I've heard people of both sexes say, "Go and put your big boy (or big girl) underpants on!" meaning, "Be a grown up!" To me, that's what "be a man!" means, not "act in some predetermined, agreed-upon masculine fashion."

Yup. There may not be an equivalent phrase, but the attitude is still there. Women are expected to take everything anyone throws at us with a smile and an offer of beer, but when we don't we're accused of being 'emotional' or 'hormonal'.

There's also still a lot of people that expect women to be 'lady-like'.

Because, up to a few decades ago, our culture was predominantly patriarchal. Women were seen as useless baby-factories, while man were responsible for running the world. No one gave a s**t about women.



Judging by our society's patriarchal background, it would probably mean "shut up and bring me a beer. You b*****s ain't allowed to have an opinion."



I define true manliness as having a penis, despite your sexual orientation (and despite any mutilations yoiu may have suffered). Being a highly logical individual with Asperger's syndrome (I refuse to use the term "aspie"), I have little patience for any meaning besides the biological one. In other words, and answering your question, biologists are the only "true arbiters of real manliness".

I reject traditional gender roles...and honestly, nontraditional gender roles, too. I have a tendency to use phrases like those you describe ("man up" et cet.) regardless of the gender of my target. It throws off a lot of people...and hopefully makes them question the ridiculousness of a lot of popularly accepted ideas about sex and gender.

Same, along with "stop being a b***h."

The "be a woman" is common. If you're not acting feminine around a lot of guys you get told you're unattractive. A guy I know told me not to talk to loudly because it's "unattractive". Men might have pressure to be manly, but woman have constant non stop pressure to be attractive.

Also get told to be a lady a lot. You seem to think it's men only who are hard done by.

Yes. Plus, what hale_bopp said. It might not be politically-correct to say it, but some people sure do imply it.

This! People don't condense it into a short, easily thrown around phrase like they do with 'be a man', but the attitude is the same - do what we expect of you or be looked down on and bullied.

Yes, a lot of women - including many 'feminists' - have a terrible double standard in this respect. They demand that men hide their (often considerable) pains, yet women should be given special treatment. Tribalist a***holes - there's an element of loudmouthed 'feminists' that not only want 'equality' but for men to be 'chivalrous' on top as well. Sorry, it doesn't work like that, ladies. Either you have one or the other - not both.

Ah the strange, antiquated ideals we inherit from our close ancestors.

When I use the phrase "be a man" it's with respect to the boy counter part. What I mean by it is the person, who is a male in this case, is acting like a child and should stop doing so and start acting like an adult. I've also been known to tell women that they are grown women, not little girls, and to start acting their age. So when I use such phrases as you mention, it is not with respect to the ideals which such phrases typically embody.

I think in the past men generally put a greater emphasis on being a man than women did on being women. There seems to be something innate to humans such that the concept of a man as a special status is found in the majority of cultures to have existed on this planet.

This is reflected by things such as rites of passage, where the boy must prove some degree of courage and so on in order to be regarded as a man. Girls, on the other hand, were usually simply regarded as women once they reached menarche, at which time she may have simply been married off or sent to a man she was already betrothed to. Girls generally did not have to prove themselves in any spectacular way to become a woman and earn respect amongst other women, but the societies usually demanded that boys prove themselves worthy of being men. Women, on the other hand, did have their own sets of burdens though.

The idea of "being a man" is sort of related to marriage. The secret to marriage is twofold. First off, let your wife think she is having her way. And second, let her have it. Women like it when men apologize. Try randomly saying sorry to someone, and chances are the guys will be more perplexed.

As for the female equivalent, being lady like and being a man are the extremes. Being a man consists of never feeling pain and always being in control. Being lady like consists of rejecting your sexuality and feigning ignorance on any matters that require assertiveness. After all, the one job that is always available for men is the military, and the one job that is always available for women is prostitution. One is revered, the other is reviled. One has excellent health insurance, the other has no health insurance. One is about complete dominance, the other is about complete submissiveness. One revolves around being anti social, the other revolves around being hyper social. One revolves around ending life, the other revolves around creating life. It probably goes on and on.