DataSage’s Alpha Male Guide to Meeting Women (JULY UPDATE!!)

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DataSage’s Alpha Male Guide to Meeting Women (Updated 7/31/07)

For right now, I will be starting out with a rough outline of how to approach and talk to a girl that you don’t know. I will be adding to this guide as time goes on, elaborating on some finer points and going into greater detail, and I would appreciate any feedback you have. I may even expand it if you have anything in particular you want me to address—maybe I can make this into an all encompassing guide one day, concerning not just approaching women, but also what do when you’re dating them. I’ve spent a lot of time testing these things in my own life, and watching it in the lives of others, so I hope this is beneficial in some way to you.

I. Introduction
II. On The Alpha Male, And Asperger’s
III. A Brief Algorithm For The Approach
IV. The Language of Pick-Up

I. Introduction

Howdy everyone! I’ve been cruising around these forums and I’ve noticed that a lot of the guys here with AS are having very basic problems when it comes not only to meeting women, but also how to approach them, and get the ball rolling. Understandably, some of you are younger than others, and some of us have more maturing to do. Regardless, I’d like to help you guys by making this rather brief guide on things that helped me overcome some of those “stiff” social moments we experience with AS. As all of us aspies know, we don’t suddenly wake up and realize our problems and fix them—it’s a constant learning and growing experience through the feedback of others.

Three years ago, I became very frustrated with my relationships with females (I still am frustrated to an extent, but what male isn’t?), particularly with NTs. That’s when I decided I needed to change not only my outlook on dating and the like, but I would also have to make a more potent change to my self-esteem and attitude. I still am “tweaking” myself, so to speak, so I can be as successful as possible with women. But it took me a lot of time, research, and effort to get to where I am now. This little guide will highlight all the things I think are crucial to bring about those changes—I hope maybe some of you guys will find it useful.

First and foremost, I’d like to bring something to the forefront here, and I can’t stress it enough: these problems are typical of ALL males. However, it’s much harder for a male aspie to make a lot of these changes because he is already at a basic disadvantage due to his inability to correctly read body language. And let me tell you, body language is the key to really communicating with women—this is the hardest part, because it will require a tremendous amount of self-coaching if you want to make any progress. But it IS possible; you just need to stick with it.

Another thing is that I encourage all who read this to approach it with an open mind. I realize that for some of you this will be your first time hearing anything like what I’m about to tell you. Some of it will sound downright bizarre but I wouldn’t steer any of you wrong, because I’m here to help, not cause problems.

II. On The Alpha Male, And Asperger’s

I’ve heard a lot of people talking about Alpha Males, and I realize that just like the very concept of popular dating, the term of “Alpha Male” has been given certain definitions and connotations by society and consumer culture. Well, that’s a theme I’m going to stress in this guide heavily: Everything that society and pop culture have told you about women and the way you should act towards them is mythic, and if you’ve heard negative things about Alpha Males, it’s not a shock to me. Understanding and breaking out of these propagated norms is what is going to change your success with women in general, be it if you’re looking for a long term partner, girls to date casually, or to do otherwise with. If you are not prepared to first accept this as reality, then you are not going to be able to accomplish any of the following steps. I leave the choice up to you.

So what is an Alpha Male??
I thought you’d never ask. There’s a lot of ways to explain what an Alpha Male is, but I think an easier way to find out the core meaning of this term is to fully understand what an Alpha Male isn’t. Need an example? Look at roughly 90% of the guys out there. You’ll find they all act the same way. They’re cohersive in the truest sense, they will often times tell a woman exactly what she wants to hear, agree with her on a whim, modify his views/opinions just to validate hers, and most importantly, they’ll try to sweet-talk girls often just to get them into the bedroom.

Well, let me be clear: an Alpha Male engages in none of this. In fact, he does the exact opposite. If he disagrees with a girl, he says so. If he’s got no knowledge on a subject that she does, he’ll acknowledge it. He will be honest about interests, goals, and hobbies, and will probe the woman on hers. He asks questions that are meaningful, and he only engages in in-depth conversations that he is passionate about. He is decisive, says what he means, and means what he says. If he likes a girl, he’s upfront about it. If he’s rejected, he thinks nothing of it, and never views anything as a failure, only as a learning experience. He is modest about his success, he is able, and he is confident to the extent that he needs no one’s opinions or support to validate his own.

You would not believe how much women get turned on by all of that subconsciously. It is hardwired in their brains, and once you can start exhibiting some of these traits, you’ll really be able to connect with any woman you want to. Similarly, you’ll be able to choose yourself who you feel you have the best connection with, and like I said, this will all come as a product of repetition.

Fantastic, now how does this tie into dating?
Ok, ok, I know what you’re asking… “But DataSage, tons and tons of guys are getting married later in life and having kids, and if 90% of guys aren’t ‘Alpha Males,’ how are they getting with women?” Well there’s a simple answer for that: marriage does not equal happiness. There are many men out there now in unsatisfying relationships, be they marriages or otherwise, and that’s because they lack a very essential ingredient in their love life: choice. Most guys are limiting themselves, whether it is out of fear of rejection or fear of conveying a “manwhore” image to others. The original concept of “dating” is to find someone suitable—someone who compliments you and who you approve of. You’re not going to be able to do this successfully unless you maximize your selection. Remember, we’re not putting emphasis so much on finding “the one,” as we are meeting women. Simply put, if you don’t meet enough women, you will not find “the one.” It may have been different 60 or 70 years ago, but in an information-driven era, networking is crucial in all aspects of life—even dating.

Unfortunately, people in today’s world seem to engage in two types of dating: the static kind, or the unfettered kind. Neither is good when it comes to building happiness in a love life, and neither one of them yields positive results. That’s why I’m here to help you throw away that old dating paradigm. As of this moment, I want you disregard everything you think (or thought) about dating. We’re going to start with a clean slate.

You’ve heard me say before that we’ve been socialized into thinking certain ways about certain things thanks to the societies we live in. In western culture, there is a high amount of emphasis placed on the woman, and how guys are supposed to be competing over women, playing their games of hard-to-get and grab-ass as if it’s some sort of marathon as to who can last out the longest. Ironically enough, despite this commercialized social trend, guys have become, in fact, LESS assertive. While women are expecting guys to make the moves, guys aren’t making them. Why do you think that is? There’s a whole host of reasons, but the most logical one in my view is the fact that too many guys are bent out of shape as to how and why they’re even approaching women. There is too much thought being put into something which should be highly instinctual. Again, this is because of the way we’ve been socialized, but I think what I’ve just outlined in this paragraph explains two important things about daily interaction between male and females: a.) men are fed up because they think that women are somehow different, and will not risk much if there is even a chance of rejection, and b.) women are fed up because they’re attracted to all these great guys who will not put the moves on them, and aren’t assertive at all. Do a girl a favor, guys; hit on her, make her feel good—it means something in the world we live in today.

That’s why I think it’s most important that we start thinking about dating differently. If we do, we have success that the majority of the male race at this point in time could only dream of having.

If you look around and talk to most people, whether they’re serious about dating other individuals or not, you’ll notice how stale the whole system is. 99% of the time, it’s the same thing: girl meets guy, guy asks girl out, they go on a date (usually comprising of dinner and a movie), and more likely than not, nothing really happens between them. To top it all off, (mostly) every woman, especially those who really are looking for that one man in their life, will go through this grind hundreds of times, often without any measurable success. I have a lot of female friends, and if it’s one thing I hear uniformly from all of them, it’s their frustration with guys doing the same thing over and over again.

Thankfully, you can cash in on this from the get-go. The approach will undoubtedly be the most important thing in terms of meeting women, because it’s going to make or break you in EVERY INSTANCE. I don’t mean to scare you, but subconsciously, the most time you’ll ever have with any girl, including that person you marry someday, will be the first 2-3 minutes of the initial interaction. Everything after that (dating) is supplementary to the established emotion from those first couple of minutes. So the way to make every situation in your favor is to break molds. Women love to be socially caught off guard around men, whether they acknowledge that or not, because it creates tension, and tension creates that sexual feeling way down God-knows-where which gets their hormones and emotional gears turning. Once you accomplish this with any woman, you will be able to evaluate her accordingly to your own standards, and even decide if she’s worth dating, because she will open up to you once you affect her emotions in a positive manner.

Don’t look at dating in a linear fashion; there are no “highs” and “lows,” no “booms” or “busts.” See dating as a circle. There is only change. Every girl you meet resides outside the circle, and it’s your job to decide which of them gets in. If a girl leaves the circle on her own accord, you must realize that she left for the exact reason every girl leaves every guy (REGARDLESS of the situation): she expected something that you could not give her, and that is not your problem, it’s hers.

Alright, but why is this so important if I have AS?
It’s important for the simple reason that so many AS guys seem to put a rather disproportionate amount of energy and emotional dedication into their relationships with females. And if they’re not putting in the energy directly, they’re moping about how they’ll be alone or how they were rejected by that one girl in 10th grade biology. Unfortunately, we can’t simply change who we are as individuals and what makes us happy, as that is not only next to impossible, but it’s also wrong. We can change behavior and reactions, however, our needs and desires are at the mercy of our hearts and souls, which are the two things that make us who we are as individuals.

On the flipside, those of us with AS have two character “flaws” which work to our advantage compared to NT males: a.) we don’t have a problem holding our ground and bowing into the status quo, and b.) we are incredibly loyal to those we care about. Simply put, in some ways, we really are tailored to work well with our female counterparts. The challenge is changing the things that put us at disadvantages: body language, voice tone, and our over-analytical nature. Yes, I understand that being “over-analytical” can come in use in other parts of life, but when it comes to social interaction and relationships, it generally only brings more pain and higher anxiety to situations that don’t warrant it. The term “making mountains our of mole hills” applies here.

Us male aspies are not good at taking in the subtle nature of body language, and unfortunately, so much of this seduction material has to do with body language! Often times, I’ve learned, you don’t really need to say anything in particular to get a woman interested in you… it all has to do with rather subtle movements, eye contact, and physical contact. The best way to use and master this type of body language (and I know it’s tough, because you’re not aware of it), is to act as casually as possible. Imagine that you’re having a party with your guy friends; you’re cracking jokes, reminiscing, having a beer, and enjoying yourself. “Acting casual,” when you think about it is a result of having no stress related to the present—it is a state of mind where only now matters at that exact moment.

Think about that. Comprehend it. Feel it. Now just think how comfortable you can make women feel by acting this way around them. Put it together with confidence, talking about interests that you’re passionate about, and being assertive, and you have a formula that now makes you available to 90% more of the female population. And for those of us with AS, we want to overcome our disability, and we want to improve our social lives… what better way to make a statement about overcoming the odds by having the ability to talk to any woman you want, have her interested, and maybe date her? That’s not trickery—it’s self improvement.


III. A Brief Algorithm For The Approach

STEP 1 – Leave Your Comfort Zone
Yes, yes, we all know, none of us like change. And if we are to deal with change, we need to know ahead of time. Well guess what? Now’s your chance, because the only change is going to come from within—so you’re the one who’s going to dictate how and when these changes happen. But you have to have discipline, and you can’t back out at the last moment.

When I say “Leave Your Comfort Zone,” I’m talking about putting yourself in situations you normally wouldn’t. In this context, it’s meeting and/or talking to girls. Do you see a girl that’s attractive sitting in a restaurant? Or maybe you see a cute girl at the mall? You have to do what we all dread. You have to talk to her. But the real question is… how do you do that?

Well, maybe that’s the wrong question to be asking. The question we should be asking is how to do we prepare ourselves and put ourselves into a state where we CAN just go up and talk to them? It’s not as complicated as you would think. For those who’ve never just walked up to a girl and struck up a conversation, this will be extremely hard to do at first. Yet you only have to do a couple of things to make it actually work.

STEP 2 – Don’t hesitate.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen friends of mine do this. The longer you sit there wondering if you should/shouldn’t talk her, and the longer you analyze the situation, and the longer you sit there considering the consequences, the harder it’s going to be for you to do it in the first place. If you see a girl you like, who you think you’d like to talk to: JUST DO IT. Start walking towards her, and do it in a casual fashion. And for the love of God, make sure you’re smiling; you’d be surprised how far this goes with a woman. It’s the simplest part of meeting a girl, but it can easily become the most problematic if you don’t address it.
But not hesitating doesn’t end after you strike up small talk. Hesitation is something women can pick up on very quickly in conversation, and it’s not an attractive quality. If you’re not on top of the conversation, if you’re not engaged, she will lose interest in you. One of the most important things I tell guys to do is ask questions—ask lots of them, because women love it when guys ask for their opinion/thoughts/views on any subject. To parallel this, I also tell guys to make sure that if they’re asked a question, they respond in a quick, non-hesitant manner. Like I’ve said before: say what you mean, and mean what you say. If you try to sugarcoat something, or “beat around the bush,” as they say, the woman will pick up on it. Doing as I explained gives the girl a frame of reference, so she knows what you’re about, and knows you are who you are, and most importantly, is damn proud of it.

STEP 3 – Don’t care whether she likes you or not.
This is an aggravating concept to come to terms with, but it’s a great philosophy because it makes the idea of being rejected go completely extinct. If you see a girl that you like, especially one you haven’t talked to yet, don’t start running scenarios through your head about what your action with her will lead to. Approach it casually. What you’re looking for is a conversation and a connection, hopefully one with common ground—NOT a girlfriend. It’s an odd dynamic, but you have to really “not care” about whether or not this girl connects with you. I mean seriously: who cares? Not every girl you see should be qualified as a possible date; that qualification should come AFTER you’ve talked to them, and it should come from you, not her. This is why we have standards guys—if we didn’t, then what would the point of talking to women be? Not every girl you talk to should qualify as someone you’d want to date in your mind, and this takes a little bit of realism on your part, as well as self honesty.

But seriously, taking an all or nothing approach towards women doesn’t work, and will only bring you anxiety. The paradoxes of the male nature amaze me when I look at them objectively. Most males will engage in activities that women wouldn’t, yet the very idea of being rejected by a girl they find attractive is out of the question. I remember one particular dating guru I listened to, he had a friend, and he asked him what the craziest thing he had ever done. His friend said that he did an extreme downhill mountain biking trek without any gear on, or a helmet. Yet, this was the same guy who was having an awful hard time meeting women because he simply was terrified of just the possibility that a girl wouldn’t like him.

Unbelievable. Just let that sink in, guys.

STEP 4 – Don’t put the girl on a pedestal.
This is a big problem, especially for guys with AS, because we tend to weigh our social success as a whole on those few tense social moments. Get yourself in a mindset. As men, we are a minority—that’s right, statistically, there are more women on the Earth than men, and do you realize what that means? They’re competing over us! So if the girl doesn’t dig you, it’s their loss, not yours. You know you have something great to offer, and you want to offer it to the right type of girls. If a girl isn’t feeling you for whatever reason, then they’re not worthy of the things you may want to share with them (that’s if you’re attracted to them, of course). Think of it in an elementary school analogy: you’re at lunch and you ask a kid to trade a snack. He says no, right off the bat. So why would you want to trade with him if he doesn’t want to trade with you? Exactly the same applies to women.


STEP 5 – Control and direct the conversation.
If you do manage to finally strike up a conversation, you have to be the one to really drive things; ask her questions, girls love to talk about themselves. If you get them going enough, they’ll start to ask you questions, and the conversation will gain momentum. If you can get to this point, you’re in very good shape, but you have to be assertive—don’t back down, and make sure you’re keeping the other things I’ve been talking about in mind. If you do that, you will become very relaxed and you will be able to truly be yourself, and the girl WILL notice it. Women have an incredible sense when it comes to sniffing out social facades, and if she doesn’t detect one around you, you’ve already made an impact.

STEP 6 – Make her laugh.
If it’s one thing that makes girls comfortable, it’s when they feel they can laugh around someone. And despite what many girls tell you, they LOVE to be teased, and they love it when guys break their balls (figuratively, heh). If you’re in a conversation and a girl is rambling on, cut it and put the ball in her court. Say something like “Excuse me, for one moment, I just want to know, do you always hit on guys at this store?” Or even better, I’ll give you a more personal example of mine. I was recently at the bowling alley, and this girl was playing in the lane next to me. I started talking to her and she told me she played softball (at my college, no less). After she told me that little piece of information, I turned it around on her. I said: “Well, I hope you play softball better than you bowl.” I had her laughing like crazy, and five minutes later, I had her number. If she says something or tells an over the top story, call her a brat, and make it CLEAR it’s a joke in your body language. (this will take tremendous self-coaching as I said before, given our disadvantages) If you do this enough, you’ve already proved your unique nature to her, and she will make it clear she’s interested in you.

STEP 7 – Always be the one to end the conversation.
THIS IS HUGE. Believe me, it works. The ability to just get up and end a conversation, or just walk away from a situation, conveys so much to a woman. It explains to them subconsciously that you’re a confident person and most of all, that you’re not needy (we aspies have a hard time acting needy). This becomes an essential part of getting to the next step with that girl, because it really puts everything in perspective for them. To them, they see it this way: a guy came up, we talked, he made me laugh, we had a fun conversation, and then he left. To a woman, this is rare; they’re used to being hounded by men, and never left alone. The fact you did this puts you in a different bracket from other guys, just based on some simple behavior, and trust me, if you get this down enough, YOU WILL reap the benefits.


IV. The Language of Pick-up

“Talking little, saying a lot”
What I’ve written above in the previous section is a rough skeleton of what every approach needs to be successful. Again, this isn’t a 100% every time deal, because you’re going to need to make a mental note of how every girl reacts to you, thus adjusting your game to their own personality. Yes, this cannot be accomplished through reading, I believe the only real way to improve in this aspect is through actual contact with as many women as possible. It’s like riding a bike—you’ll never learn how to stay on if you don’t take a couple of falls.

Yet I will say that there are very subtle elements to perfecting your game, and turning it into something that actually yields results. Confidence is the foundation from which everything else will be built. As stated before, if you don’t have confidence, you’re socially bankrupt from the start. Refer to the earlier parts of this guide to understand why you should be confident around women at all times, and why social interaction between a male and a female generally always puts the male in an advantageous position. The key is to always say something—girls like to talk, but they don’t like to listen to people BS. Females have an incredible knack at picking that stuff up on the fly.

One of the things everyone here is going to have to understand is that language and word choice do mean a lot when it comes to the subconscious of human beings (as does body language, which we’ve briefly talked about). In fact, did you know that women base whether or not they can potentially be with someone off of just the first five seconds of social contact? It’s absolutely true. And it doesn’t give guys a whole lot of time to do anything amazing; however, if you do or say things in the right way, you can have a high rate of success. For instance, I use this model of first contact (or a variation of it) if I’m at a place like a bar, and I see one or more girls sitting together that I may be interested in. But first, let’s see a standard guy version of it:

Guy: Hi ladies.
Girl 1: Hi.
Girl 2: Hello.
Guy: So, can I ask you guys a question?
Girl 2: Yeah.
Guy: Okay so I have this friend, and he’s kind of having problems with his girlfriend. And I need to see what you think.
Girl 1: Okay.

Let’s stop it right there. I’m going to go further in my version, but I want to point out the blatant problems with the conversation listed above. Do you know where he went wrong? Right from the start. And it only got worse because he asked them if it was okay to ask them a question; kind of redundant and self-defeating, no? And to make matter even worse than that, he then leads into his question by once again restating what he’s already said and looking for their approval again when he states “And I need to see what you think.” So how would I handle this you ask? And does this really matter? Please humor me, but it’s icebreakers like this that can make or break any approach, depending on how you do it.

Ideally, I’d shoot for something like this…

Me: Hey guys, my name’s Jonathan.
Girl 1: Hi, I’m Ashley.
Girl 2: Melissa.
Me: Alright, so I need a female opinion, and you two look like genuine people. So here it goes, it’s about this friend of mine over there, right? Dude with the funny looking face? Yeah him. He’s been having this problem with his girlfriend, where she’s kind of upset with him because he still has a shoebox full of stuff from a previous relationship he had which lasted about two years. Does she have a right to be upset that he still has all that stuff?
Girls: blah blah blah well how long have they been dating blah blah blah is he still looking through the shoebox on a regular basis blah blah blah
Me: Well, they’ve been dating for about six months now. And no he doesn’t hang over his past, he just keeps it under his nightstand, and that bothers her. So, do you think she has a right to be upset?
Girls: blah blah blah blah blah she sounds controlling blah blah blah does he still talk to his ex blah blah blah
Me: Yeah, well he talks to his ex occasionally. Like maybe, once a month, maybe not even that. So given that information, should she still be mad at him?
Girls: blah blah blah blah blah no I think it’s fine blah blah blah I wouldn’t worry about it blah blah blah blah blah she sounds kind of crazy blah blah
Me: Yeah, well, that’s what I thought. I mean if it was my girlfriend, I’d be having a serious talk with her about control issues. Have you guys ever had a problem like that with your current or past boyfriends?

See what I did here? Right from the start, I’m stand up about who I am. Before they can even answer my greeting, I tell them what my name is, and I go in with a casual attitude and a smile on. And once they tell me their names, I jump right into it, and I let them talk after I finish my question. I listen to them. I keep giving them new information, changing the scenario with each social volley so as to keep asking for their opinion, not once, but three times. On top of all this, notice my word usage: I call them “guys”—I treat them like a kid sister or something. I don’t just ask them that I need an opinion… I need a FEMALE opinion, which is the reason why I’m there. I throw a little jab in there at my wingman by calling him “funny looking” to lighten things up. And since I’m asking their opinion on something related to relationships, it allows me to easily segue into another conversation about their lives and relationship status without coming across as desperate or creepy.

In the same respect, I’ve given them my opinion at the end in response to theirs, this time in agreement. I reveal an important piece of information about myself—if I were in the same situation, I’d stand up for myself, and not take that kind of female manipulation. On a subconscious level, this is an extremely powerful technique with women. In the world of seduction and dating gurus, this is called “demonstrating value.”

So let’s recap real quickly. So far I’ve a.) successfully opened up and engaged in conversation with not just one, but two women, b.) given them something they can talk about for a couple of minutes without things getting dull, c.) not hesitated, and treated them like I would a guy friend, and d.) demonstrated my personal value.

Most of the time in a situation such as this, you’ll want to leave them hanging, looking for more. During intial conversation, you’ll be given what are called IOIs (indiactors of interest). With women, this can range anywhere from playfully arguing to modest touching, though to be honest, it’s a lot easier to get a girl to touch you on the shoulder or something if you touch them first. We’ll get into personal contact later (some have a word for this called “keno”), but since this section is mostly based on the linguistic side of the interaction, let’s just stick to the basics for now.

Basic IOIs: What you’re both thinking, but not saying
I want to first address the most basic IOI that all men miss out on by virtue of a lack of self-esteem. It’s the most common, and it’s also the most puzzling, since it’s the most obvious IOI there is. If a girl EVER, in any circumstance, initiates conversation with you, they ARE interested in you, whether it be consciously or subconsciously. There is no second guessing here. Females DO NOT talk to guys on their own accord that they’re not interested in. It just doesn’t happen. Sure, she might not be saying “Oh this guy looks like he could be cool, maybe we could possibly date, and even get married someday,” but her brain is definitely entering her into a situation she WANTS to be in. Always assume in this case that you are being given a freebie, and never doubt yourself.

Another one is if she asks you whether or not you have a girlfriend. I don’t think this needs to be explained given everything else I’ve said.

Body language has to do a lot with the way women give off IOIs. For basic examples, her playing with her hair while she’s talking to you, tilting her head, or her licking her lips all denote some form of sexual tension and interest, whether she realizes it or not. I’m not saying this means she wants to sleep with you immediately, but what I am saying here is that she’s attracted to you if she’s doing these things. I’m using the term “sexual tension” in a very broad manner, so don’t go crazy when you read that and think I’m trying to teach you how to be a womanizer—because I’m not.

To keep on the subject of language, women generally don’t use the same language men use. This can be problematic for those of us with AS, because we take verbal communication very literally, and analyze almost every single piece of information that’s thrown at us through regular conversation. I’ll give you a perfect example. Say you’re engaging a woman in casual conversation and you’re making her laugh by throwing out little jokes here and there. You say in a joking manner, “Yeah, well you know I’m a shy person.” Her response would probably be “Hmm, you don’t seem so shy to me.”

Now how would the typical aspie handle that? For some reason, I think they’d say something to the effect of, “No really, I’m shy. You only just met me. At school it’s really bad blah blah blah blah.” Stop this. You’re misreading her. Even if you are a shy person, that’s irrelevant at this point in the interaction and you need to continue to humor her. Don’t go all cold on her. Continue your rhythm. It should go something like this:

You: Yeah, well you know, I’m a pretty shy person.
Her: You don’t seem shy to me.
You: Well, that’s just because I’m only shy around people I’m not comfortable with.
Her: Oh, so you’re comfortable around me?
You: Woah, woah. I know you find me attractive, but seriously, you’re going to have to calm down with the insinuations. This is a bookstore.
Her: Hahaha, oh stop.

David DeAngelo calls this “Cocky-Funny.” The thing that’s genius about C-F is that it’s easy to gauge its success. For example, in the conversation above, her saying “Oh, so you’re comfortable around me?” is pretty indicative of her interest in the conversation, and more importantly, in you. Women will never say more than they have to—unless of course they want to. So if they’re playing along with the shtick, and they’re obviously having fun, consider that an IOI in and of itself.

C-F is a pretty crucial blend of the nuances in our language: not what we say, but how we say it. This can also be difficult for those of us with AS because it obviously involves a certain level of tonal perception. Saying “Yeah well you know, when you’re this sexy, it’s tough to go out in public” about yourself can come across either funny as hell, or it can turn a girl off completely. Most people reading this who have AS right now are going to say “Oh geeze, that’s the most dickheaded thing I’ve heard,” but that’s because you’re just looking at the words. Women do not interpret messages like that. They look for the emotion or the feeling associated with what you’re saying as an indicator of what you truly mean. To no surprise, they do the same thing on their end. If a girl says to you “Haha, so do you always hit on strange women this way?” that’s basically her way of saying “This conversation needs to continue and I want to hear you say something witty again.” Whether or not they know it consciously is a different story.

Seriously, it’s just that simple. If you can come up with your own material (and it’s not hard to make a girl laugh, trust me), you just need to put the appropriate components together for some good interaction. This will ultimately result in the girl relaxing and letting loose—she’ll feel more comfortable around you, and it will give you precedent for some possible keno.

Advanced IOIs and how to play them
Another common IOI that you’ll get from women (particularly the more socially savvy ones) is that they’ll try to throw a cute little jab at you as a test. This is type IOI is a little more advanced, because it serves two purposes. It seeks to a.) challenge your value (which you’ve hopefully demonstrated by now) and b.) tell you that she’s interested and she wants to see what else you’ve got. For instance:

Her: Haha, are you always like this?
You: Like what? Alive?
Her: Haha, no. I mean this funny.
You: Yes. I understand that you’re attracted to this, don’t worry, I’ll be asking for your phone number soon. Slow down there, Speedy Gonzalez.

They’ll try to do stuff like this all the time. As long as you keep hitting back with the comments and the original stuff, you can handle any situation easily.

Another rather advanced IOI is if they say very little, but maintain eye contact. This means she’s basically enjoying herself. She’s enjoying the questions, she’s enjoying the conversation—she’s enjoying you. If you can keep your rhythm up you can throw her another curveball with the C-F formula…

Her: *staring at you after you’re done talking*
You: You’re staring at my lips aren’t you?
Her: Haha
You: It’s okay, a lot of women do that. You’d be lucky just to be kissed on your forehead.
Her: Hahaha oh dear hahahah blah blah blah blah

So basically to recap, you want to stay tight with your game. You want to be ready for whatever she says, but you can’t be tense about it, else they’ll sense that as well. The best way to get in this state of mind? Go back to earlier in the guide. You have to remain confident and relaxed throughout the whole process, even when picking up and giving off IOIs.

Confidence is the foundation. Cocky-funny are the building blocks.

More will be added to this in the coming days/weeks. Thanks for reading, and I’ll be willing to answer any questions here in the thread.

~ Jonathan, aka DataSage

Update Log
12.2.06 – Initial posting. Talked mainly about the 7-step approach.
1.3.07 – Added a section describing the Alpha Male, and explained why seduction is especially important to those with Asperger’s.
7.31.07 – Huge update. About five pages worth of stuff on pick-up language and IOIs.

Last edited by DataSage on 31 Jul 2007, 7:43 pm, edited 5 times in total.

Great Guide!

stickied.

Btw, it is "busting he balls," not "breaking her balls."

I understand the concepts you are talking about. I have a a hard time applying all of them because I rarely encounter girls who show interest so my emotions try to get ahead of me. However, I have done the "alpha male" routine a few times and I know it works. It ended up all 3 times with the girl asking ME for MY number . . . very cool.

You said you were going to discuss body language, so I'm not going to elaborate much on it. I made an effort to control my body language in those situations because my body language is very not expressive yet spazzy. I tried to make my movements smooth and deliberate.

The hardest part about the alpha male act is keeping it up, especially if you see the girl multiple times. I find that I cannot maintain a lie like that for long, and to drop the act would seem like some dramatic personality change from the girl's perspective. That's the catch.

Thanks for this. Though, I'm someone who IS very needy, and ISN'T confident, and can't HELP but wonder if someone likes me or not because I don't want to be an as*hole and bother them, and act to them how girls I didn't like at all have acted towards me in the past.

I dunno, I'd rather not act like someone I'm not. It just seems...dishonest. But if it's the only way I can even possibly have a relationship...

I think this shallow alpha male bull**** is a big part of the reason why so many aspies remain alone.

Alpha male acting routine = dishonesty
Real relationships require honesty and strong emotional connections built from it to sustain.


If the way you meet a person is a lie, how, exactly, will any kind of real relationship form from it?

I've also talked with many women who gave me their numbers the first time I've talked to them (a few even asked for mine). Seriously, women who do that come across as ditzy and/or promiscuous... not people who I think would be worth my time in any way.


At this point, I'm old enough to accept that the only people who I would date would be people whom I'm interested in pursuing a long-term relationship with, and there's no way in hell to know that if I haven't been close friends with the person for at least several months beforehand.

Finally, the whole alpha male routine is not in the slightest conducive of building trust... which is another issue of paramount importance in any relationship.

That isn't to say that every facet of it is without merit. Not coming across as being insecure/needy, talking to people, knowing how to have conversations, etc. is important, but all this gamey crap is a waste of time.


I know of lots of people who got dates via alpha-male type tactics, but how many of them stayed together? Not many.

Woah woah, let's back up here--I think some of you may be confused about what I meant by "Alpha Male." Unfortunately, society builds images of what something should be... alpha males, relationships, and dating are no exceptions. Being an Alpha Male has nothing to do with dishonesty--it instead amplifies honesty in relations where there was none or very little, and cuts through all the social BS (something us aspies have trouble with). There are no "lies," as that completely goes against the concept in the first place.

I would like remind you, particularly if you're an aspie, you are already hardwired as an Alpha Male (though you may have been socialized differently). Everyone remembers the E-S scale in autism? Females are biologically programmed as empathizers, and rely heavily on emotions for problem solving and decision making. On the other hand, males are hardwired for systemizing EVERYTHING. Unfortunately for us aspies, we have the "extreme male brain." If we can't systemize something, it simply does not make sense to us, thus our disadvantage in relationships in the first place, and this also explains how NT females become so frustrated with us.

But utilizing and opening yourself up to your own way of thinking is what benefits us. We can't change the way we feel; however, we can work on using our highly systemized way of thinking to our own advantage, and if you look above, that's EXACTLY what you do.

Now to answer some concerns:

There is nothing shallow about being an Alpha Male, except for the fact you may have to engage in small talk more than anything to be successful (how unfortunate for those of us with AS!). Prior to my transformation, I was an abomination when it came to women. Ever since I made these changes, I've had some of the most honest and open relationships, and the decrease in stress from maintaining those relationships has been tremendous. It's allowed me to be myself, and when I put two and two together, I realized that I felt that way because I was an aspie. It's also one of the reasons I was able to grasp these concepts so quickly.

Again, we have to break free of our highly subjective view of male-female relationships. When you connect with a woman, regardless if you're an aspie or a NT, you have to realize that you're doing something that's effecting her emotions... unlike you, who is "systemizing" the whole encounter, and then determining whether it's good or bad. If you don't effect her emotionally, you're going to have NO success, period. That's why it's important not to BS about interests when you're getting to know each other--if you share a passion or hobby, for her it's going to heighten her emotions--for you, it will heighten your perception of her as a suitable partner.

Another thing that is killing us aspies is that we buy into prefabricated social paradigms. Let me tell you, the whole modern concept of dating is a farce. It's a collective waste of time and money, and I don't even like to use the term "dating" because I consider it old and meaningless. Remember all those rediculous dating tips you used to get from everyone? Don't do this, don't look this way, act nice, make this face, don't talk about politics/religion, etc... it's all bogus. It does nothing but put incompatible people together because both parties are too busy trying to woo the other when getting to know one another doesn't come until later in the relationship. And then guess what happens? They end. Because a lot of those relationships should've never started in the first place.

But be careful about becoming friends first. Once again, women do not think the same way as males, let alone us male aspies. If you don't state your intentions from the beginning, you will be conveying to her that you're not interested in anything else but friendship, and that is standard. Once you end up in the friend category, it's tough to break out... and we all know how tough that is.

I agree with DataSage. An alpha male is not a jerk. An alpha male is the leader of a group. He is in control and most members of his group feel comfortable with this. Females are programmed to seek out the alpha male and guys will try to become the alpha male, or at least wish they could. This is the way most animals are programmed. Aren't humans just one animal species?

I prefer being on the bottom of the Alphabet. Finally, tomorrow I have an appointment with my Psychiatrist to see he can help me with chemical castration!

gsilver, You need to understand how women work. Seduction and dating is a game, and women love games. The most important feature a man can have is relaxed confidence. Women like men who are in control of the situation, who take the lead etc. This is basic instincts and can be seen in the animal realm as well although more primitive in nature.

Soap operas and TV-shows brainwash men into thinking that women want a "nice guy" who gives them presents and flowers all the time. This is the absolute opposite of how one should behave! I'm not saying one should treat women like thrash, but the woman will sense when you're getting needy and it will give her the control. You have to be in control of her, SHE is the one who should be struggling to get you, not opposite.

Correct, but not in the 20 - late 30/mid 40 age range. Empirical studies have shown that (statistically speaking) there are more men in this age range. The greatest factor that contributes to a greater amount of women is that a woman's life expectancy is longer than that of a man's. So you have a disproportionate amount of all these elderly women that distort that figure further (go check your friendly neighborhood nursing home). Plus, if you try to go to a club or bar in any major city I've been to (about 14 or so) men outnumber women at least 1.5 or 2 to 1. Some places are as bad as 3 or 4 to 1. In some of the clubs I went to in Atlanta, I observed that it was almost even.

I suspect that women don't go out to bars and clubs because they have more intellectual methods of finding a boyfriend.

I'd like to see what women think of this guide, by the way....

Please think this through. Chemical castration is irreversible in 99% of the cases.
You might regret like I did. THough my chemical castration as invoulentary, or I didn't know it happened...
This is coming from someone 19 years of age who works like a 70 year old sexually. Seriously, you don't want that to happen to you.

I've written about my appointment with my Psychitatrist in "Members only".

You might as well talk to a brick wall. You'd get more sense out of it.

His problem is an obsession with porn. Killing your sex drive completely is a stupidly over-the-top thing to do. You can't reverse the procedure and I think in years to come he may really come to regret it. Get treatment for your addiction to pornography that doesn't involve such a drastic 'solution'. At the end of the day though, Lonermutant is an adult so he can do what he likes with his own body.

Lonermutant: if you decide to go through with it, do not come on here in a few months' time and whinge about rendering yourself permanently incapable of having sex. I wouldn't feel the slightest sympathy for you as your situation would have been entirely of your own making. Anyway, who knows what life might throw up? Sort out your depression and you might end up with a girlfriend somewhere down the line. If David Blunkett can get a shag so can you and I.

I've been offered to take Seroquel to sort out my head, but I doub't I'll accept it, because taking Cipralex almost drove me to the brink of suecide. And I'm only interested in SEX, not in having a girlfriend.