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rdos
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04 Sep 2020, 5:00 am

It seems like depression has a considerable connection to "social" issues, but this differs between neurodiverse and typical people.

For neurodiverse people, the strongest connection is with missing having a soul mate, and next comes missing being in a relationship. Contrary to what is typically assumed, there is no connection to missing having friends nor to missing being popular.

For typical people, the strongest connection is with missing being in a relationship, and next comes missing having friends and missing being popular. There is no connection to missing having a soul mate.

Which kind of seems to show that for typical people, being popular, having friends, and being in a relationship are important things that when missing will cause depression. For NDs though, the important things are having a soul mate and being in a relationship, that when missing will cause depression, while friends are not important.

There is also a considerable correlation between having neurodiverse relationship preferences and having regular depressions. I think this is mainly because many people will try to use dating, but if you have neurodiverse relationship preferences, this will not work and result in depression.



Breanbyurn
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21 Nov 2020, 7:28 pm

The entire post above is just spot on.

What do you think are the evolutionary/environmental causes for the two different thinking patterns?



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25 Nov 2020, 1:37 pm

Ok.. yes, trigger events & life situations Can cause depression. But they’re far from the only causes.

Hell, there are plenty of celebrities with abundant fame, fortune, friends & family that have offed themselves. Having all of these things does not guarantee happiness.

Some other causes:

Neurotransmitter imbalances - like dopamine, serotonin, or norepinephrine deficiencies. These can be sorted via exercise, pharmaceuticals, meditation etc.

Vitamin/mineral deficiencies - especially vitamin D and magnesium & sulphur. Vitamin D affects dozens and dozens of bodily functions in a wide array of systems. It’s essential for happiness. Magnesium & sulphur help us detox food acids that can build up and cause depression/anxiety. There are probably other vitamins & minerals that need to be in balance to maintain a positive mood, too.

Food chemical sensitivities - as mentioned above; food acids, in particular Salicylate Acids. I discovered this in myself years ago and have shared here about it. Studies show that 70% of people on the autism spectrum are sensitive to salicylate acids - plants’ natural preservative & pesticide, which are boosted sky high in GMO fruits & veggies for those properties. I use epsom salts (magnesium sulphate) on my skin to absorb the minerals and excrete the excess acids via urination.

And another known cause of depression is brain malformations. People with an undersized hippocampus - a seahorse shaped region of the brain responsible for learning and memory - are prone to chronic depression. Before I discovered the salicylate acid sensitivity I had all but convinced myself that I must have been born with a below average sized hippocampus and would wonder if a brain scan would show me that to confirm it so I would Know why I was depressed seeing as I fit all the symptoms for so long. Now, I highly doubt it, seeing as the root cause of my lasting depression turned out to be biochemical in nature and I was able to successfully treat it via diet and supplements.


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Breanbyurn
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03 Jan 2021, 8:19 am

I think the OP addresses a very real, crucial point I can truly identify with, but the post above feels very general. When I take care most of those problems like deficiencies listed (except maybe brain malformations), I'm still left with what the OP describes. So yeah, maybe it's brain malformations that cause me to feel depressed without a soul mate; does that change the solution though?



rdos
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03 Jan 2021, 11:12 am

Breanbyurn wrote:
The entire post above is just spot on.

What do you think are the evolutionary/environmental causes for the two different thinking patterns?


I described this in an article I put up on research-gate last year: https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... odiversity

To make a short sumary, NDs evolved as efficient hunters that collaborated in a pair (male & female). The strategy was that the male was visible and lured large prey towards the place where he knew the female was hiding, and then the female could jump up on top of the animal and while the animal tried to get rid of her, the male would kill it at a close distance with a thrusting spear.

A lot of the preferences relating to this are still part of the ND population, and it can also explain the rather strange problems with dating that NDs have, prefering love at a distance. What this article doesn't go into is the advanced communication system that will develop after a strong crush and keeping things at a distance. This communication system allows them to share information about positions and plan the whole hunt nonverbally. Which also explains thing like NDs having problems talking about feelings, as that exchange is supposed to be through their natural communication system, and not talking.

Of course, it also explains why NDs don't like authority & being controlled. In this hunting strategy, they are independent inviduduals sharing information and helping each other at a distance. They are not forced to form a team with ranks and hierarchy as building blocks as NTs do in their natural hunting activities, and in teamsports that are outlets for this.



rdos
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03 Jan 2021, 11:26 am

goldfish21 wrote:
Ok.. yes, trigger events & life situations Can cause depression. But they’re far from the only causes.

Hell, there are plenty of celebrities with abundant fame, fortune, friends & family that have offed themselves. Having all of these things does not guarantee happiness.

Some other causes:

Neurotransmitter imbalances - like dopamine, serotonin, or norepinephrine deficiencies. These can be sorted via exercise, pharmaceuticals, meditation etc.

Vitamin/mineral deficiencies - especially vitamin D and magnesium & sulphur. Vitamin D affects dozens and dozens of bodily functions in a wide array of systems. It’s essential for happiness. Magnesium & sulphur help us detox food acids that can build up and cause depression/anxiety. There are probably other vitamins & minerals that need to be in balance to maintain a positive mood, too.

Food chemical sensitivities - as mentioned above; food acids, in particular Salicylate Acids. I discovered this in myself years ago and have shared here about it. Studies show that 70% of people on the autism spectrum are sensitive to salicylate acids - plants’ natural preservative & pesticide, which are boosted sky high in GMO fruits & veggies for those properties. I use epsom salts (magnesium sulphate) on my skin to absorb the minerals and excrete the excess acids via urination.

And another known cause of depression is brain malformations. People with an undersized hippocampus - a seahorse shaped region of the brain responsible for learning and memory - are prone to chronic depression. Before I discovered the salicylate acid sensitivity I had all but convinced myself that I must have been born with a below average sized hippocampus and would wonder if a brain scan would show me that to confirm it so I would Know why I was depressed seeing as I fit all the symptoms for so long. Now, I highly doubt it, seeing as the root cause of my lasting depression turned out to be biochemical in nature and I was able to successfully treat it via diet and supplements.


I think this is very backwards. Since depression is so strongly related to being neurodiverse, it can be shown that ALL neurodiverse traits (and neurodiverse brain wirings & "imbalances") "cause depression". However, correlation is not causation (elementary issue), and there is a need for a lot more than correlation to prove the link between depression and a trait.

So, to weed out the real causes, there is a need to establish causative routes and then show that these are stronger than alternative routes and the "background" connection between depression and neurodiversity. I worked on this last autumn, but gave up (at least temporarily). Even with a very large dataset, it's extremely complicated to prove these links.



dragonsanddemons
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03 Jan 2021, 1:59 pm

I’m asexual and aromantic and still have severe, treatment-resistant depression. Also have every indication that I am not wired to be a social creature like humans. But then again, I don’t fit most trends even among the neurodiverse.


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03 Jan 2021, 2:09 pm

So people can only be depressed if they don't have friends or a romantic interest? And they can't possibly be happy if they don't, even if they're asexual and asocial. Cringe. :roll:

Reality is the cause of of depression. Hearing people moan about not having a love interest gives me depression and all I feel is disgust and irritation. No empathy at all. I must really be a psychopath. Whatever.



goldfish21
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03 Jan 2021, 2:25 pm

rdos wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Ok.. yes, trigger events & life situations Can cause depression. But they’re far from the only causes.

Hell, there are plenty of celebrities with abundant fame, fortune, friends & family that have offed themselves. Having all of these things does not guarantee happiness.

Some other causes:

Neurotransmitter imbalances - like dopamine, serotonin, or norepinephrine deficiencies. These can be sorted via exercise, pharmaceuticals, meditation etc.

Vitamin/mineral deficiencies - especially vitamin D and magnesium & sulphur. Vitamin D affects dozens and dozens of bodily functions in a wide array of systems. It’s essential for happiness. Magnesium & sulphur help us detox food acids that can build up and cause depression/anxiety. There are probably other vitamins & minerals that need to be in balance to maintain a positive mood, too.

Food chemical sensitivities - as mentioned above; food acids, in particular Salicylate Acids. I discovered this in myself years ago and have shared here about it. Studies show that 70% of people on the autism spectrum are sensitive to salicylate acids - plants’ natural preservative & pesticide, which are boosted sky high in GMO fruits & veggies for those properties. I use epsom salts (magnesium sulphate) on my skin to absorb the minerals and excrete the excess acids via urination.

And another known cause of depression is brain malformations. People with an undersized hippocampus - a seahorse shaped region of the brain responsible for learning and memory - are prone to chronic depression. Before I discovered the salicylate acid sensitivity I had all but convinced myself that I must have been born with a below average sized hippocampus and would wonder if a brain scan would show me that to confirm it so I would Know why I was depressed seeing as I fit all the symptoms for so long. Now, I highly doubt it, seeing as the root cause of my lasting depression turned out to be biochemical in nature and I was able to successfully treat it via diet and supplements.


I think this is very backwards. Since depression is so strongly related to being neurodiverse, it can be shown that ALL neurodiverse traits (and neurodiverse brain wirings & "imbalances") "cause depression". However, correlation is not causation (elementary issue), and there is a need for a lot more than correlation to prove the link between depression and a trait.

So, to weed out the real causes, there is a need to establish causative routes and then show that these are stronger than alternative routes and the "background" connection between depression and neurodiversity. I worked on this last autumn, but gave up (at least temporarily). Even with a very large dataset, it's extremely complicated to prove these links.


It’s been MY personal experience that so much of neurodiversity is in the gut/enteric nervous system & that common food chemical sensitivities are to blame for depression and anxiety; and in turn that altering the gut microbiome via diet/natural medicine, as well as healing the intestinal lining to reduce chemical sensitivities, can make a dramatic improvement in mood/depression/anxiety etc.

IMO that’s the neurodiverse commonality.


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Breanbyurn
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03 Jan 2021, 2:36 pm

rdos wrote:
Breanbyurn wrote:
The entire post above is just spot on.

What do you think are the evolutionary/environmental causes for the two different thinking patterns?


I described this in an article I put up on research-gate last year: https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... odiversity

To make a short sumary, NDs evolved as efficient hunters that collaborated in a pair (male & female). The strategy was that the male was visible and lured large prey towards the place where he knew the female was hiding, and then the female could jump up on top of the animal and while the animal tried to get rid of her, the male would kill it at a close distance with a thrusting spear.

A lot of the preferences relating to this are still part of the ND population, and it can also explain the rather strange problems with dating that NDs have, prefering love at a distance. What this article doesn't go into is the advanced communication system that will develop after a strong crush and keeping things at a distance. This communication system allows them to share information about positions and plan the whole hunt nonverbally. Which also explains thing like NDs having problems talking about feelings, as that exchange is supposed to be through their natural communication system, and not talking.

Of course, it also explains why NDs don't like authority & being controlled. In this hunting strategy, they are independent inviduduals sharing information and helping each other at a distance. They are not forced to form a team with ranks and hierarchy as building blocks as NTs do in their natural hunting activities, and in teamsports that are outlets for this.


Thanks, I just downloaded that study the other day. Very fascinating, and the listed biases/traits hit home, and they also make complete sense from an evolutionary point of view.

Regarding the soul mate thing, what does it mean when a ND chooses a NT over a ND soul mate? Or is it in itself a telltale sign that the person in question cannot qualify as ND, even if they have multiple characteristic ND traits? Is there such a thing as "impure" ND?



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03 Jan 2021, 2:43 pm

lostonearth35 wrote:
So people can only be depressed if they don't have friends or a romantic interest? And they can't possibly be happy if they don't, even if they're asexual and asocial. Cringe. :roll:

Reality is the cause of of depression. Hearing people moan about not having a love interest gives me depression and all I feel is disgust and irritation. No empathy at all. I must really be a psychopath. Whatever.


It's almost as if there were multiple different characters/types thrown on the bandwagon of ASD. There's the hyper-empathic type and then there's the non-empathic type, for example.

I for example get super-stressed/anxious and physically disturbed when something's not right emotionally with a person I care for.



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03 Jan 2021, 3:14 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
It’s been MY personal experience that so much of neurodiversity is in the gut/enteric nervous system & that common food chemical sensitivities are to blame for depression and anxiety; and in turn that altering the gut microbiome via diet/natural medicine, as well as healing the intestinal lining to reduce chemical sensitivities, can make a dramatic improvement in mood/depression/anxiety etc.

IMO that’s the neurodiverse commonality.


Words is not enough. You need to prove your "commonality".

I don't dispute that food & chemical sensitivies plays a role in the severity of autism, but it certainly is not the main player. This only affects a minority of NDs, and even after they have been treated / removed the sensitivites, they still don't end up as anything similar to NTs. And most importantly, it doesn't change their preferences a bit.



rdos
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03 Jan 2021, 3:22 pm

lostonearth35 wrote:
So people can only be depressed if they don't have friends or a romantic interest? And they can't possibly be happy if they don't, even if they're asexual and asocial. Cringe. :roll:

Reality is the cause of of depression. Hearing people moan about not having a love interest gives me depression and all I feel is disgust and irritation. No empathy at all. I must really be a psychopath. Whatever.


Reality is complex in this regard. Most of it also is relative. Some people are content with small things, like identifying as asexual and then being able to completely ignore sexual relationships. Even relationship happiness is relative. Some people claim to be content with ANY sort of relationship, and think all their problems would be solved, while other might have experience from different types of relationships and then prefer certain types (like those based on being soul mates) over others.

However, many typical people claim that they must have certain social engagements, friends (and even status) to be happy. It's reasoned that evolution made us this way and that the reason is that in the evolutionary past people needed to be social cooperators, needed friends and partners to successfully reproduce. However, since the evolutionary past of NDs is very different, it's not the same things that make us happy as typical people.



rdos
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03 Jan 2021, 3:31 pm

Breanbyurn wrote:
Regarding the soul mate thing, what does it mean when a ND chooses a NT over a ND soul mate? Or is it in itself a telltale sign that the person in question cannot qualify as ND, even if they have multiple characteristic ND traits? Is there such a thing as "impure" ND?


The main problem is that finding a soul mate is very hard and the process goes against "good dating" practices. Therefore, most NDs probably have no experience in this area, or have some experience but disregarded it or didn't follow through because it was "wrong".

Also, most NDs don't even know about the soul mate issue, and the potentials it has, and is content with any relationship they can get into.

Then there is the issue of the "ND relationship traits". Those are not part of everybody diagnosed with autism, and not of everybody classified as neurodiverse either. They are more common in the ND population, but they not exclusive to that population. The ND traits occurs on a spectrum, just like the neurotypical traits. Which is because of admixture between NDs and NTs in the past.



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03 Jan 2021, 4:30 pm

rdos wrote:
Breanbyurn wrote:
Then there is the issue of the "ND relationship traits". Those are not part of everybody diagnosed with autism, and not of everybody classified as neurodiverse either. They are more common in the ND population, but they not exclusive to that population. The ND traits occurs on a spectrum, just like the neurotypical traits. Which is because of admixture between NDs and NTs in the past.


Okay, this is where it gets REALLY interesting to me, especially regarding mind-to-mind communication and some other thing that's even more eerier: foreseeing future events when being connected the above mentioned way with the partner in a highly emotionally elevated state. So the dream-transfer (f.ex. I imagine something tonight and she dreams about it right then), and the scent-sending (the partner's scent appears as an involuntary memory "image" in each other's minds when there's a strong emotional/cognitive focus on the partner), or the fairly accurate future predictions are absolutely real?



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03 Jan 2021, 4:34 pm

rdos wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
It’s been MY personal experience that so much of neurodiversity is in the gut/enteric nervous system & that common food chemical sensitivities are to blame for depression and anxiety; and in turn that altering the gut microbiome via diet/natural medicine, as well as healing the intestinal lining to reduce chemical sensitivities, can make a dramatic improvement in mood/depression/anxiety etc.

IMO that’s the neurodiverse commonality.


Words is not enough. You need to prove your "commonality".

I don't dispute that food & chemical sensitivies plays a role in the severity of autism, but it certainly is not the main player. This only affects a minority of NDs, and even after they have been treated / removed the sensitivites, they still don't end up as anything similar to NTs. And most importantly, it doesn't change their preferences a bit.


How tf are commonalities supposed to be communicated if not by words? :? Go read the words in recent autism studies: 70% of people on the autism spectrum are sensitive to salicylate acids. (plants’ natural pesticide & preservative, boosted sky high in gmo foods) And the root cause of said sensitivity is perforated leaky intestines (leaky gut) caused by intestinal dysbiosis/fungal infections etc. Science, math/stats, words.. unless you prefer sign language? I can finger spell it out for you - but they’re still words.

Cite your sources. Which studies say that dealing with/treating chemical sensitivities in autistics doesn’t improve their functioning? Are they the same studies that don’t acknowledge 70% as the majority vs a minority of cases? :? :roll:


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