NT ND challenges from NT perspective

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Hi!

I posted this somewhere else but only got a few replies so was hoping I could get some inputs here.

Sorry this is going to be long.

I've been dating a guy (9mos) who I think is OTS. If it's needed for context, I can include the reasons why I think he is otherwise it'll make this post even painfully longer. It's been great and I like him for a lot of reasons, but there has been a lot of challenges that from time to time I find myself re-evaluating my "relationship" with him. Please note I'm not necessarily associating his possibly (likely) being ND/AS for this (at least not all that I described below), and I'm here hoping that someone can give me some insight

#1: He seems to struggle with anticipating basic needs, but when pointed out he does change. Not until after we argued about it though. Sometimes it's as simple as him refusing to stop somewhere for dinner (while traveling) because he's not hungry, even though I am. This is just one example. I'm trying to avoid giving specifics for anonymity, but I was angry at that time. I can't recall an instance when we got into an argument, and the issue wasn't resolved which is good. I think the root cause of this problem is he can't see the big picture which is thinking about the needs of the person he's with.

#2: He's so big into sticking to plan/schedule and finishing tasks that a lot of times this is at the expense of fostering relationships with people. I think this is an asset, don't get me wrong. He's very efficient and gets a lot of stuff done, which is one of the things I like about him. This becomes a problem though when it involves social interactions, esp those that are not work related. When we're traveling for example, or when we're doing local activities, we do have fun. We have lots of similar interests, but he's too fixated on doing those activities and checking off his list that it takes away those intimate moments in between. 3 Hour drives? Let's spend this time reviewing our trip plan or learning facts about places we're seeing. Maybe watch other informational videos. Let's skip sit down meals and eat fast food instead, so we can maximize our time. Of course, this is at the expense of the opportunity for us to just slow down and talk. Other instances would be turning down invitations from family/friends so he can check off items in his task list.

#3 This is minor but I like making small talks with people especially on trips, and sometimes I post stuff on forums that I think are helpful. There had been times when he criticized me for not giving enough information when people asked for it, and nagged me to do it. There are times when people "ask" for information but this is more small talk (specifically the trip-related, in person ones). Usually you can gauge people's interest if they ask for more questions, and unless they do, I don't give out an involved explanation to answer them like he does. He means well, and his intention is to help which is another thing I like about him. I don't like him nagging me to do the same thing he does however, and I told him a few times they're not that interested. I'm not sure how else to explain this to him, and I'm guessing this is him not being able to read body language.

#4 This is where my hesitation in this "relationship" is rooted -- his "lack of commitment". It has been 9mos and I'm still just his friend (though he acknowledges that we're dating). Granted, we never talked about being official so I guess this is my fault right here. We talked about this at 8mos and he explained that he's had issues about this with exes. He said he's had exes that are great but that he just never felt the urge to commit to them. He never cheated, and he's gone to therapy for this. I asked him if he's had a traumatic experience with past relationships and he said no, he thinks he's just weird (his words) esp since all of his friends (same age) are married with kids. He said he wants to keep dating and that he wants to figure this "issue" out. At that time I wasn't sure if I wanted to continue so we decided that we'll talk about it later (which he refused to discuss when I did bring it up a few weeks later). As I write this, and I know I'm pointing out "challenges", but I'm also recalling a lot of good things about him and when he was there for me unexpectedly. So I'm torn. I've read so many posts about NT-ND/AS relationships and I recall reading some where the ND partner didn't emotionally connect with the current NT partner as well as previous ones (and some some struggling with forming emotional connections). His manner of showing affection is not typical too so it's hard for me to partially use that as basis.

I'm so sorry this is long but if you had the patience to read and got to this point, thank you. I've talked to him about all the above and he said I'm not the first person to bring these up, and I try hard to communicate these in a non-confrontational way (although I fail sometimes, see #1) because he feels attacked. I do like him and I care about him a lot, but there's a lot of learning for me to do in terms of navigating this. Ways that wouldn't make him feel he's being attacked, so if you have any input/opinion either from an NT/ND perspective, that would be helpful. But esp with #4, it's making it hard for me to continue even though he's making obvious efforts to make this work.

I want to note that I have my own issues, and he's been patient with me as well. A lot of things we're able to talk about (except for the commitment part, which he refuses to continue discussing), but I want to add that my patience comes from the awareness of the challenges between NT-ND/AS. People have said I shouldn't "diagnose" him, but if I don't have that frame of mind, I would simply think he's being inconsiderate for not caring that I've not eaten (or some other similar instance).

This right here would be enough of a reason for me, personally, to walk away.

You want more, and he doesn't.

I firmly believe no person will ever change any other person. I've never seen it nor experienced it.

I wish all the best with finding a mate whose desires are compatible to yours

Autistic people can form really strong emotional connections, but these mainly form at a distance, not with dating. If people are not compatible, these connections might never form, even if people are living together for decades. From the research I've done, I also conclude that dating often sabotages the connection process.

Some people believe that autistic people can do without strong emotional connections, and can resolve everything with talking and clear communication. I'm sure this is possible if both people agree to try to do this, but it's not exactly optimal. I wouldn't find a relationship like that worthwhile, especially not when I know how much better it can be with strong connections and mind-to-mind communication.

I've been told to ask him what the "functional meaning" of commitment/gf is to him (and for me to have a more concrete definition of it). That way it would be easier perhaps for us both to understand what we want/where we are at, and then go from there. He seems to be associating the term gf with something much more serious than what I have in mind, when that's not really where I'm at. Minus the label, we spend a decent amount of time with each other, have met each other's friends, have gone on a few trips together, we have talked about conflicts and resolve them, and I even lived with him for a little over a month when he had to temporarily live out of state. I don't consider this as serious really, but referring to me as a "friend" is concerning.



Does this mean giving space? We lived together a little over a month a couple of months ago, and at the moment, I feel a little bit disconnected. He does look happy to see me whenever we see each other.

I'd like to figure out how to address our conflicts though so I don't feel frustrated and he doesn't feel attacked. We've been productive about this in the past but the increase in frequency is having an effect on our "relationship"

I guess I overlooked something sort of obvious.... the big tipping point from friendship to romance usually hinges on some physical display of affection (such as a kiss on the lips, cuddling, sex, etc).

Have you and he ever engaged in any such mutual romantic gesture?

there is the romance aspect there, yea :/ also we went on an international trip a few weeks ago and he even took care of at least 70-80% of the expenses (actually, he always does that). I'd like to mention though as it might matter but the affection part kinda wavers. When he's very stressed out he doesn't like to touch or be touched (including sex), and he always has something on his plate like work or his never ending todo list! And when there's an increase in frequency in our unresolved differences (conflicts)

One of the best ways I have learned to navigate relationships, is to oversimplify everything (in my own brain)......

1) Your time is finite.

2) The best use of your time is bringing yourself happiness/fulfillment.

3) If a person contributes to your happiness, then spend time with them.

4) If a person takes away from your happiness, then your time is best spent elsewhere.

5) Only you know what brings you joy and what doesn't.

6) You don"t have to justify yourself to anyone. Make the decision that is best for you.

Edit/disclaimer: this is intended for healthy sane people. If something like murder brings you joy, then we have a serious problem that needs special attention

Thanks! The conflicts are affecting our interactions though, do you have any advice on how I should handle them?

I'll do my best.

How do you express your needs? Do you directly say, "I am hungry. I want to stop for food."

Or do you possibly "soften" your requests? (It would be nice to stop soon, Are you hungry?, My stomach hurts, etc.....)

ASD folks often dont understand requests if they are not explicit. We are poor at picking up on hints, even if they are super obvious hints.



I would suggest trying to find enjoyment/intimacy in these moments with him. When you watch an informational video together, use that time to connect and maybe discuss what you just watched.



I'm not sure why he is reading your forum posts..... maybe just make your posts after you are done hanging out with him for the day and you are alone.

If he's doing this in person, politely tell him that he's free to make his own contributions to the conversation.



Decide what you want from your relationship with him. Take your time, do free writing, journaling, praying, meditating, talking to friends/family/therapist, whatever you need to do to clear your mind and figure out your own desires.

Then sit down with HIM, during a calm and happy time together (not during a fight) and ask him what he wants from his relationship with you. If he needs time to think about it, give him that time. Set a date right then and there when you will reconvene to see how your desires align.

If he refuses, calmly state that you dont feel that you are important enough (in his life) to continue the relationship if he wont take the time to express what you mean to him.

#1: He seems to struggle with anticipating basic needs, but when pointed out he does change. Not until after we argued about it though. Sometimes it's as simple as him refusing to stop somewhere for dinner (while traveling) because he's not hungry, even though I am.

#2: He's so big into sticking to plan/schedule and finishing tasks that a lot of times this is at the expense of fostering relationships with people. I think this is an asset, don't get me wrong. He's very efficient and gets a lot of stuff done, which is one of the things I like about him. This becomes a problem though when it involves social interactions, esp those that are not work related.

#3 This is minor but I like making small talks with people especially on trips, and sometimes I post stuff on forums that I think are helpful. There had been times when he criticized me for not giving enough information when people asked for it, and nagged me to do it. There are times when people "ask" for information but this is more small talk (specifically the trip-related, in person ones).


The first three points resonate for me in my communication with my daughter.

#1 and #2 My daughter tends to be self-absorbed in her own world a lot. She is very into plans/routines and so does not take into account our own basic needs e.g. if my wife and I are hungry or tired. I don't think she means harm o doesn't care about us, I think its a way she controls her own anxiety and my wife and I have become very accommodating even though it can be quite annoying and comes across that she doesn't care about how we feel.

#2 My daughter has her own agenda revolving around her special interests. I think this one of a few major issues with her friendship groups at school in fostering relationships. But every person with autism is different, she does have with comprehension process issues and I realised that the teachers find it easier to get one of her ND classmates to explain things to her as they know her better than the adults and are actually better at debriefing her on how to handle situations.

#3 Yes I can relate. Small talk is a major work in progress. As with everything my daughter knows people have small talk but she tries to interpret it in terms of functionality and purpose rather than interpreting it as a way of breaking ice or just chilling. But if its one of her special interests (e.g. COVID19) then she goes overboard with information including describing epidemiological modelling to people when most of the time all anyone wants to do is make a comment about the latest COVID19 news like they do about the weather.

Oh man, this one made me laugh. I did the same thing.... someone mentioned "fear of vaccine" because they didn't know what was in it, and I launched into a monologue about where to look up the ingredients and what they were

For context sake.... how old is your daughter?

Some made her sound quite young, but others made her sound like an adolescent.

Not to derail the thead....

Thanks! "during a calm and happy time together" I guess is key. That's when we have packed days, doing activities all day, and gathering information about that activity we're doing/places we go to, that's when he's happy.

When expressing my needs, I guess there have been a lot of times when I just expected him to "know". Like, if we're at a gas station to get gas and he's buying water from the store in the middle of a road trip, I expect him to get a bottle for me too. I don't even ask in cases like that, and when he doesn't, I get frustrated. He'll say why didn't you tell me or go get it yourself? Or like if it's lunch time, I expect him to know I'd be hungry when we haven't had a proper meal. I guess I should make some adjustments there.

Yea, that makes sense. I'm thinking of the "small talks" we've had with people we met on the road and when he does talk to people, they're for informational purposes. Sometimes I ask people questions just to small talk (like, "do you know how far this trail goes?", even though my guy and I just discussed it and he'd go why are you asking them? But that's just me making small talk, I don't really care for the answer so much. Now I'm remembering those times when my guy would talk to me about different kinds of ships/trains/airplanes, or how do airplanes fly just randomly and he'd be so enthusiastic about them....and he expects me to remember these things because from time to time he'd quiz me!



I really need to keep this in mind. I feel guilty because there had been a few times when I raised my voice out of frustration, and it's not like he's doing these things on purpose. Last time this happened he said "it's because I'm selfish, I hate myself". I don't think he's selfish at all, it's more we've talked about this in the past, they've been resolved but he forgets.. it's one of those things that I expect to come naturally but I guess I need to adjust that expectation instead.

Yep although my daughter does this less (as she seems to share less with us as she gets older) but certainly can remember the times we'd get a pop quiz



Yeah although I am talking about a child and you are talking about your life partner, I think there is some confluence. I am also sure your partner does care about you but may not feel he needs to express it. It gets back to functionality and purpose. I would also review what his perception is of your relationship. I recall you said his idea of commitment may be different to yours. This may be a key to setting relationship goals with him. That way you both move closer to being on the same page.

Anyway I'm a parent but there may be others who have had similar experiences to you who can better address dealing with the dilemma you find yourself in.

Oh she's 16, she kind of moderate functioning in terms of having balancing being smart (I'm sure every Aspie has some strength or super power) but having major communication/social deficits. She's playing catch up as she was non-verbal with speech as a child and easily stressed with auditory triggers but today she communicates normally (although a bit stilted and still doesn't comprehend the myriad of social nuances)

she's independent, has friends (and bullies) at her mainstream school, able to find her way around public transport and wants to get her drivers licence!