Here's the problem

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I've occasionally (maybe once or twice) had a not-single friend try to reassure me by telling that she thinks I'm attractive and that would even go out wit me if she wasn't already spoken for. And I appreciate the intent. But here's the problem: she is not single. But I don't mean just specifically her by that; I mean all the ladies who would date me if they were single. And I can assure you that none of those women are single.

Here's the thing: women that do not have unreasonable standards never stay single. Think about it: every woman is constantly getting hit on or asked out by many different guys on a regular basis. Even when we ignore all the random cat calling strangers, every woman has many men she knows through work, school, church, friends, etc. that are lining up for an opportunity to ask her out on a date. That is to say; women always have options. And given all their options, unless she's the type to dismiss everyone who's a little awkward or unsure of himself, she always easily find a suitable partner among those many options. The only women who are still single at this point are still single because they are extremely selective, while all the women who would date someone like me have already found someone like me long ago.

Single or not, the appropriate gender or not, I'd date you except for... can be of little comfort when you're hurting.

That said, there's far too many people out there for people to not constantly be stuck in turnover, not to mention all the people who are temporarily burnt out on engaging with dating/seeking potential partners.

I don't disagree that the place you're in is hard and made worse by long standing patterns of disappointing outcomes making it hard to remain hopeful, all of which tends to act as a negative feedback loop. It seems very difficult for someone in similar shoes to find people who are essentially the female equivalent too, because if they're out of hope from looking and saving themselves from disappointment too how the hell will your paths ever cross?

This might be the hardest part both for people in your shoes and for anyone offering them advice. How do you tell people they've just gotta keep exhausting themselves and keep getting hurt, especially when the most likely way for it to work is for everyone in that boat to keep putting themselves out regardless, and that's really unfair to ask of someone.

Basically, that’s the average aspie male.

Some of us, like me, simply have to accept being single.
I actually prefer it.

I'm not saying this has to be you, btw.
I am much older and have life-altering baggage to contend with.

One problem is, a lot of these "options" are outright fake. A lot of heterosexual men will claim to be interested in a longterm romantic relationship, or even marriage, when they are just looking for casual sex. So the big problem for many hetero and bi women is finding men who are actually interested in more than just sex.

Some still-unattached hetero men, of course, genuinely are looking for an ongoing romantic relationship too, but they have to compete with the many more men who aren't. So, women are faced with the problem of picking out the truth-tellers from the liars. Many women probably aren't as good at this as they might think they are -- and, of course, autistic women are likely to be even worse at it.

This is one of the reasons why many (though not all) women prefer a friends-first approach rather than a dating-first approach to romantic relationships. We figure that if a guy doesn't want to be our friend, then his motive for being interested in us at all must be have been based solely on sexual attraction, which, by itself, is not a good basis for a relationship.

A hetero/bi woman might say, parodying the above:

"Men who actually want relationships, and not just sex, never stay single. Think about it: every woman is constantly getting hit on or asked out by men who just want sex and not a relationship. Therefore, any man who doesn't hit on women but is genuinely friendly and treats women as people, and who actually sticks around long enough for a real relationship to develop, can easily find a suitable partner."

Yes there are some fallacies in the above parody. There are analogous fallacies in your statement that "women that do not have unreasonable standards never stay single."

There's a grain of truth to this.

I'm going to have to call bullsh!t on this friend first thing. I have had many female friends, some of whom I've known for many years. But still none of those friendships led to a romantic relationship. It is clear that women want to keep me in the friend zone because they enjoy my company but do not find my appealing sexually. I'm sure many women like to start out with friendships that lead to more with tall handsome NT men, but that is clearly not the case for me.

Last edited by dorkseid on 06 Mar 2022, 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

My existence clearly demonstrate that the statement "any man who is looking for a serious relation will never stay single" is untrue. The case is that many women who say they want a man who just use them for sex actually mean they want a tall successful neurotypicals man who won't just use them for sex. I actually do agree that tall handsome and successful NT men who are not just looking to use women for have no reason to remain single at all.

But I'm not saying there are no women who would date or marry someone like me. Of course there are. The problem is that all of those women have already found "someone like me" long ago.

"Some still-unattached hetero men, of course, genuinely are looking for an ongoing romantic relationship too, but they have to compete with the many more men who aren't. So, women are faced with the problem of picking out the truth-tellers from the liars. Many women probably aren't as good at this as they might think they are -- and, of course, autistic women are likely to be even worse at it."

The problem with that argument is that like reserve elitism, the friend zone actually DOES exist. In many cases, women decide early on whether or not find you attractive or see you as dating material. If that doesn't happen, your chances of getting into a relationship with her becomes nonexistent in most cases.

None of my relationships started as friends-first; there’s either a super obvious interest from the women at the very beginning or there’s none.

Exactly. The problem is that some of us never had male role models who could teach us the correct social skills when it comes to dating. Sadly, too many people have a problem with the concept that there are people out there who have to learn social and dating skills like it's an academic subject. To them that is a foreign concept. I just wish there were organizations out there that could help adults with Autism date. Sadly they are few and far in between, and those who do exist tend to be aimed at teenagers.

It’s impossible to state a gender-specific problem here without getting a reply claiming that it’s all balanced out.
“ie. But the Ukrainian gov is obliging only men between 18-60 to fight and die. Some WP reply: Oh but Ukrainian women are also suffering by fleeing the country and taking care of kids in war.”

I understand. I never said that women on the Spectrum don't have issues socially. Their issues are generally different though, and society is much more forgiving of women than of men as men are expected by society to be the problem solvers and the providers. I maintain that were I female or LGBTQ, I absolutely would have dated by now.

^ Yes, Mona herself admitted that she had plenty of boyfriends and partners - while the OP is already 40 and he got 0 (actually he got one abusive fiancee before).

Also it is not really balanced out by her analogy; unless 100% of hetero and bi women are perfect human beings; as if not half of women who may accept dating a certain aspie man would turn out to be abusive, crazy, liar or gold digger…etc.
It’s not only the women who should go through the “bad apples” problem while dating.

If the bad apple rate is 50%, I guess it is much easier to find a good apple among 100 available apples instead of having only zero to 1 available apple at a time?


Besides not all women seek for a long term forever relationship.

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 06 Mar 2022, 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The "friends first" approach is a hard sell for people who've never been able to establish a relationship despite a long-standing desire, and having far surpassed the age at which people typically start dating. This is especially true if they've had plenty of experience developing platonic relationships with people of the opposite sex who have never been receptive to propositions to take things further.

It seems to me that people who have not been able to fulfill their long-standing romantic desires despite their efforts have a greater need for more immediate romantic validation, acceptance or intimacy so that they can finally feel wanted or desired. In a dating scenario, the aims of both parties is pretty clear; to suss out whether enough compatibility exists to continue exploring the possibility of building a romantic relationship. In ideal circumstances, even before a romantic relationship has been established, both parties can derive feelings of romantic validation, acceptance or intimacy fairly early on.

In a "friends first" scenario, a solid friendship takes a while to develop, likely with no kind of romantic undertones or validation along the way, and if you're somebody who's started to feel like no one could want you because you've never been able to attract a partner before, you're going to feel like the person you're making friends with could never be interested in you romantically, unless they give off very clear hints, but you're going to sincerely doubt that'll happen.

When it comes time to try to escalate the friendship to the next level, people who have had extremely limited dating success probably won't be too optimistic about the prospect of a platonic friend being receptive to romantic advances, and if you're a man with a woman friend, it's unlikely that the woman is going to make those advances.

I do think "friends first" relationships can work well for some people, but I have to question how likely that is to happen for a man whose life experiences have made him feel like women are never interested in him romantically. For individuals in this situation, I feel like the priority needs to be somehow getting them to a place where they feel like other people could find them romantically desirable.