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I've done this crazy thing I want to talk about.

I wasn't sure if I should post it because involves personal stuff. But I'll try to do in such a way that I don't reveal too many details, to be diplomatic I guess.

First some background: I was introduced to this girl (let's call her Sparkler), by another person online who had been kind to me (let's call her Tugboat). Tugboat gave me Sparkler's email address. She also gave me an invite to this small private forum they both were on. Tugboat suggested that I should ask Sparkler to meet for coffee, but I never did that, but I kept in touch with Sparkler online. It was several months before I impulsively asked to meet up in the afternoon. It was good. She is a one of a kind person, and not someone who is trying to be unique. She can't help it. Nevertheless I had bad emotional blunting and was a bit screwy so I didn't think about liking her. I was just trying to be friendly. I stopped posting on the forum because I couldn't really relate to most of the members. I didn't suggest meeting up for a while then it was only an arbitrary thing and a cop out asking to meet up with my friends. I would always ask at short notice, it is a thing I learnt so you don't over think things and panic as much. She couldn't make it. A long time pasted but eventually she was at a loose end and I delighted to meet up with her. Unfortunately, I completely got the wrong day and month of the thing we were going to see. So consequently I was a little bit ‘spoon fed’ and a nervous wreck, but she was cool about it. It was at that time that I sort of realised that I had this strong feeling in my chest. It was only some days later that I acknowledged that I did in fact fancy her. Just my emotional blunting, that I had for a while, was stopping me from knowing for sure how I felt about her. I wanted to meet up again to be sure and she was a bit busy for a short while, but when she was less busy we arranged to meet up this last time. I had a good time with her. But although I can't tell the non-verbal stuff, I eventually figured out by the end reading between the lines conversation that she didn't fancy me and probably was never interested in me that way.

Crazy idea: Well I was a bit gutted, but too rational recently to be in denial. I've made more fuss over people who in hindsight were pretty horrible. Sparkler is a good person. I was worried because I admire her nature and cared about her and that I wouldn't be able to be friends with out resentment. In the past I would have cut her out of my life at this point, and was close to doing it. But I finally decided I could. On a whim decided to email Sparkler and said that I probably did fancy her but couldn't be certain because of emotional blunting but not to freak out because I figured out she didn't. I said all the stuff about almost cutting her out, admiring and caring about her and how I just wanted to continue the way things where and just be friends if it was ok. I was glad I came to this realisation but not to think that I worshiped the ground she walked on because of it. It was a more in-depth, from the heart email. You'll just have to take my word for it. What I can't stress enough is how much of a big deal it was for me to do this!! ! I find this whole area really, really hard. I still can’t believe I actually did it, I actually pressed send. I’ve never done anything like this. I don't know if it has to do with the pills I’m taking. I said I didn't have to do this. It is pretty unconventional, it probably breaks some unwritten rule, but I don’t care. I did it for many reasons: I wanted to be me for once. I need to practice this kind of dialogue, badly. I needed it to try and move on with my life. Those are my selfish reasons. But also I wanted her to know that she is a good person, so when people hurt her, this maybe this could help.

I'm really grateful to Tugboat for the opportunity to meet such a unique person as Sparkler.

I never expected a reply. She did. She said it was brave of me and she was sorry she didn’t feel the same way and not to take it as a reflection of me but her fussy nature. I’m fussy too, so I understand. She was really good about it, said to do what I felt was necessary. I thanked her and said I’ll probably get over it, as I’ve only met up with her a small number of times. I said I’d give her a break for a month then email her then.

I know deep down, I couldn’t have a relationship even if I wanted to right now. What I think I got out of doing this, which I didn’t realise, is I’m deliberately putting myself close to the fire. I wish I’d been able to do this in person, but still I figure if I’m conscientious about it, feeling the burn, rather than reinforcing the fear, would help chip away at it. If you don’t really have this fear, you probably wouldn’t appreciate what I’m talking about. Think about it, she could brag about it make fun of me, whatever. I don’t think she would do that but she could. There is still some going to be some shame, failure, fear, heartbreak. If I just walked away I would not really get used to it, I would go more into my shell. I know my lack of being able to relate to people that caused this fear. So I got more than enough on my plate at the moment. This feeling is similar to when I want to ask someone out. Some Aspies may have more traits in some respect but also are a lot more advanced than me in terms in being able to get a girlfriend and have a relationship. They might not have been mocked for their social awkwardness, or are aware of it. So this probably sounds totally ret*d. But for me I need to feel this burn. I’m going to feel it when I email her, or just think about it. If I ever meet up with her again I’m going to be pretty flushed. Or she may not want anything to do with me, I can handle that too. I could easily walk away if I wanted to. It is not like I have to see her. I’m a champion avoider. I can actually mask things over and feel nothing if I really wanted too. Emotional blunting is handy in that respect. Probably having to see her everyday would be way too much for me right now. It is actually pretty well engineered come to think of it, not that I consciously knew what I was doing.

That is all.

At least she was understanding, which is good. Most women would react poorly to that.

Well in a way that is the risk I needed to take. I did say if she were to be petty I wouldn't ever have to talk to her again, which is true, but I thought she might understand she is not like most women.

That's a hell of a risk though.

Asking someone out is a big risk right? Or it can be in many cases. Opening up to someone is a risk. It is a big risk for me. This is similar, not the same but should help. I got the shock feeling in my body now, I'm exposing myself to it deliberately to get used to it. You either think bad things or you can try to take it as it is.

Don't get me wrong it was a pretty impulsive thing, only something I did in the moment; I probably wouldn't have done it if I put it off. Yes it was and is a big risk that is the point.

I would hope most women would not react badly to what you did! Honest communication is to be admired and appreciated. Anyone who reacts badly is not worth your trouble.

You're very strong, 0_equals_true! And it was not crazy at all. The more times you get near the fire, the more accustomed you become to the heat, in a manner of speaking. The only way you'll truly learn what another person is thinking or feeling is to talk to them. That's how the game is played, and every bit of practice you can get will help you.

It's very admirable that you recognize your weak spot and are trying to strengthen it. That's a difficult prospect. As an avoidant personality myself, I now consider you my hero! Really! I cannot do what you did. I fear I will always be alone because of it.

Thank you for sharing this experience with us!

Good for you, man - it was very brave of you to say that, and I'm sorry it didn't turn out better for you (it was all-too-familiar, though ).

Thanks for your kind words EatingPoetry.

I couldn't do it either, believe me if it hadn't have been for that crazy impulse I wouldn't have done it. I was purposely not trying to think it through. I just knew I was fed up of taking everything as a rejection. I wanted this to be different. It is really easy to get fixated on someone just because they are there.

I go pedantic and also get tongue tied a lot, when getting to know people. When I like someone I just can’t talk to them and be myself. I got to figure out how to solve that.

You might not have to be alone. There are things you can do like CBT and general stuff I figured out. In a way this is CBT, just not intentionally. I made real friends for the first time a year and a half ago (I’m 25). That was a big achievement for me. I know about being avoidant and social anxious. I met them on a Social Anxiety site. Sometimes avoidance is ok so long as the thing you are avoiding is not going to interfere with what you want to do. We don’t have to adapt completely to NTs norms. But you figure out what you need as you go a long. One thing I concluded in that email is I need to stop living in my head. I am sort of dealing with my main problems, so I haven’t really been doing much socially. Although I see my friends every couple of weeks I spend most days not mixing with people. I need to curtail that a bit because I’m not going to get a g/f that way. But still I have things I need to work on first.

I’ve been reclusive before. I’m avoidant. Still, I made some headway somehow. I can’t think like you, which is what you have to adapt the techniques to. But if you want any ideas, from what I experienced I’m happy to share. I’m not saying I’m clued up, because I’m not. Just some CBT techniques that have worked and you could apply/adapt them to different situations.

Cheers MrSinister

Feeling better and more settled

Hey 0_equals_True, I'd love to hear some of your advice and experiences! I'd like to have a special someone in my life (I'm 40!) but I don't know how to go about it.

I am curently in CBT with a therapist who's really good and wants to help me. I have a little bit of resistance at the moment because it's hard to accept that I'm so flawed. However, I don't want my weakness to stand in my way, either.

I don't know if you're familiar with Silence of the Lambs, but in it the criminal psychiatrist, Hannibal Lector, explains to FBI agent Clarice Starling how to figure out who a murderer is. Lector tells her that the killer "covets. And what do we covet? We covet what we see." I'm afraid I may fixate on people just because they're always there, too. I don't even know how to find someone who would actually be a good match for me. But it's something I may learn.

You did well.
I've had to do some similar things before on that level I know it's extremely hard to get through.
Glad it went well.

I can't really help you in find someone special, that's my problem. I don't want to detract from your CBT therapist either. I think motivation is an important part of the CBT. If you have no motivation then you can't do the CBT. Also you need clearly defined problems to work on. You need to extract that information out somehow. My old shrink was CBT trained but was also psychodynamic and various other things. If you need to get those first things you can try, just regular talking. My shrink did very little CBT directly on me. She gave me a leaflet and later I bought the book by Gillian Butler. It is sort of aimed at NTs, just take the examples and structures with a pinch of salt and try and get the general concept. Most of the CBT happens outside of the session.

I think having a CBT 'guide' can be good, especially if they are very intuitive. But they can be terrible as well. My friend was royally ripped off. The solutions need to come from you. I think sometimes we might not see as well as someone else, however the more it is the way you see it the more applicable it is. If you think your CBT therapist will accelerate you in some areas that is good. Understanding yourself how CBT works is the key. Read up on it. A lot of things I've used it on I never intended to focus on a certain area I just reach something that I though I could apply something to then did it. Sometimes you do it with out thinking, which is the best way. So if you can do both the tasks that the CBT 'guide' set and have some ammunition when you might feel possible to use it that would be good.

I learnt spontaneity is really important weapon you can use. The way I suggest is not to worry about trying to do something if you know you don't really want to. Whenever it is you know you really want to do it, and then you must not put it off. Try and get the smallest time possible between wanting to and doing it. Then occupy yourself with something unrelated till then. Get rid of preparations to the bare minimum. You only need to your keys and coat to leave the house.



I don't know either. I'm a total hypocrite, but I think you need to just not care. I guess you find out by trying. Creating the opportunities is the difficult part. It is not impossible though. I wish I could get more support for my meets thread idea, because that can be really good.

If you can change the "I'm afraid I may fixate on people just because they're always there" to "I'm aware I may fixate, but so long as I'm conscientious about it is ok to make mistakes"

One the most creative part of CBT is finding the stages in-between. If you are good rational thought and lateral thinking than can help. It doesn’t have to be an obvious link so long as there a connection in your mind. The smarter you are about it, the better chance of getting out of you predicament. It is getting the attitude right. Like in martial arts you learn you can be in a situation that you have every chance of being battered, but the smarter you are and the more external knowledge you pull you have a chance of getting out of there. Don’t dwell on getting bettered, it will save you nothing. Nothing or nobody has ownership of advantage or disadvantage. It is the situation that is the advantage or disadvantage. ‘Natural advantage’ is merely fitting into the situation in an instance more often. No one should claim that a big guy doesn’t create an advantage over a little guy generally. But and advantage can be within the disadvantage as well along side it. The situation will change constantly you create the space you use.

But one that is worth taking to bring a conclusion to the situation one way or another.

[quote="0_equals_true"]I've done this crazy thing I want to talk about.

I don't think it sounds crazy, I think it sounds brave. But then again, that is how I try to look at the "crazy" things I do. You have such an understanding of yourself, of the way you process things, I envy that. And I learn from what you write, thanks for sharing it.