Why it might *appear* we're uninterested in dating

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On a different online community I belong to, I read an insightful posting from a user on the spectrum yesterday.

The user addressed the fact that those of us on the spectrum are often assumed to be uninterested in dating (or at the very least, less interested than the general population).

Here's what the user essentially said: A romantic partner will hardly ever come out and say "Let's have intercourse." Instead, they give clues (and it falls on the other party to read the clues). Even neurotypicals have a hard enough time reading the clues sometimes. So when you introduce ASD into the equation, that's a ripe scenario for sex assault allegations (if we make a move based on clues we misread). In order to prevent the possibility of getting charged based on a misunderstanding, many of us find it easier to distance ourselves from the dating scene.

In other words, we don't necessarily lack interest in dating; we merely realize dating can come with a giant risk to us.

I hadn't even thought of this before. The user has a point, however.

Your thoughts?

I'm sure that kind of fear is the case for some on the spectrum. I'm sure a lot of people thought I wasn't interested in relationships because I'm very introverted & keep to myself a lot. Some of the reason is because I tend to be an outsider in situations with other people even when I try to join in. Others tend to misunderstand me, misinterpret my actions & body laungage & things I say. Others tend to not really listen to me when I talk & assume I'm too ret@rded to comprehend & know what I'm talkimg about. I was bullied a lot in elementery school & often in trouble being rude, offensive, mean, & bullying when I was NOT trying to. I'm also a lot more comfortable at home than social situations & I have different interest than my NT peers tend to have. I wasn't in a lot of situations where I met other people except work. I worked retail & getting my work done was my priority instead of socialising; management expected me to get more work done than what was realisticically possible. I did socialise some thou & I tried asking out some women I worked with who were single & nice to me but I always got rejected. Some were shocked I asked them & a couple even mentioned that they thought I was gay

People don't talk about sex before having it?
That's news to me unless it's not consensual.
How do they deal with issues like birth control and STIs?

I don't think that the OP is suggesting that people don't talk about sex beforehand. My understanding is that the OP is referring to the stages that take place well before sex: flirting, showing interest with gestures or subtle hints, making conversation that shows an interest in their interests, smiling when we see the person we are interested in and making a point to go up to them and saying something nice, etc. These are the subtle things that go on when one is testing the waters to find out if the other person might reciprocate our interest. Many people on the spectrum are not skilled at these subtleties and may not even be aware of them. But if someone skips over the subtleties of flirting and just abruptly asks someone on a date, that can be seen as inappropriate or even creepy. I think that's the conundrum.

The general topic of sex probably comes up during most relationships, yeah. I couldn't really speak from experience; the sex I've had has largely happened outside the confines of a relationship.

That being said, imagine the following scenario: A woman comes home with a guy. They start kissing. They gradually progress. Eventually they end up in bed (and have sex). Yet the words "I want sex" never came out of either of their mouths. They both relied on social cues to assume the other party wanted to continue progressing.

I'd venture to guess a lot of sex happens very similarly to the scenario I just described.

^

I'm not sure. I reread the OP and it says they agree with the other person who said dating can lead to SA charges or be a risk because of misunderstandings regarding sex. I agree that communication as a whole, or picking up nuance can be difficult when dating, but the post is quite clearly about sex, in my opinion anyway.

Right. Then if you refer to my above post (where I discuss a hypothetical scenario where a man and woman go home together), let's build upon that scenario.

Going home together is no guarantee either party wants sex. One of the parties might give off clues during the foreplay stage that they don't want to go any further. An individual on the spectrum, however, might fail to read the clues (and then continue progressing with the intimacy, not realizing they're technically committing rape).

Even a neurotypical individual could misread the clues; an individual on the spectrum is far more likely to misread, however.

And it's not just guys who misread clues. One time in the bedroom, a neurotypical woman did a certain move I never consented to (nor did I want her to do).

Dating and sex somewhat go hand in hand.

The post is mainly about sex because sex is the area of dating where individuals on the spectrum face the most legal risk.

ND women have high rates of SA as well. I don't know if it's always that they can't read warning signals although that's certainly a part of it. For whatever reason we are at greater risk of SA even when no warning signs are present (e.g., being drugged or outright forced, etc.) The fear of this and the trauma of past SA can keep a lot of ND women (and all genders), afraid of dating. I went nearly 18 years because of SA PTSD.

If a person pays any attention to their partner, there shouldn’t be a problem. I’ve been sexually assaulted. They didn’t misread my signals; they knew exactly what they were doing.

Obviously, communication is very important. Boundaries should be talked about in advance so both people know what is or isn’t acceptable. A person should be paying attention to their partner to see if they are enjoying what’s happening. Sex is something that you do with someone not to someone (unless you’ve agreed to something specific and enthusiastic consent is always present).

I think people on the spectrum aren’t any more likely to sexually assault someone than anyone else.

I think we are at a high risk for SA because we appear vulnerable, and we often don’t recognize warning signs in relationships.

That's exactly what I was getting at. When I finally started dating after 18 years we talked a lot about it, like for months. We both went to the doctor for the go-ahead. Birth control wasn't a concern but if it had been, that would have been a big discussion too because I don't do hormones.

I agree about abusers knowing exactly what they're doing. That's what I was trying to say in my other post but as usual you worded it better. Most SA is calculated and / or careless. There's no reason to think autistic people or specifically autistic men fit either of those categories. We're actually prone to overthinking and overplanning, rather than being rash.

^ Thanks!

Dating is difficult for people on the spectrum in a variety of ways, but unless a person is an as*hole, they probably don't need to worry too much about sexual assault allegations. If people just make sure that consent is present, it should be fine. Consent is really not a difficult concept to understand. If in doubt, ask. Don't have sex with someone who can't consent. It's pretty basic.

This is how my erotic dreams of fictional characters work

We enter the house and start passionately kissing each other all the way into the bedroom then he throws me on the bed & we have sex

This is how sex works in TV shows and movies

I suppose it might happen that way for pairs of people who trust themselves and each other enough to stop if needed. Maybe they've done it before and there's implied consent (through enjoyment, not obligation). I'd hope they're both sober etc. There's always a risk one or both people will change their mind afterward and decide it wasn't consensual. It's a scary world out there because yes there is a lot of SA but there are also some false allegations. I'm sure there might be more allegations these days in places where abortion isn't legal except in the case of SA. I don't envy anyone starting a new relationship in those places. I still don't see how autism factors in, except for the obvious vulnerability of some autistic people who are naive and those who attract abusers via the power imbalance.

"Explicit consent" is becoming more en vogue these days.

If either party wants explicit consent, the other party should ask for it. If explicit consent is a turn off then the entire relationship, much less the intercourse, is a bad idea.

If you're worried that you're going to get hit with sexual harassment or sexual assault charges because you can't read that she wasn't interested you probably don't need to ease back on the throttle and not be so aggressive. Or you have some serious anxiety/paranoia you need to deal with on top of your ASD.