Thoughts on women, dating, relationships, nice guys...

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Okay, this is going to be just some random ideas I have about the way women work in relationships... just ideas I've formed from reading and a bit of experience.

Mostly, I think I've recognized that women have two distinct stages: starting out and in a relationship.

In the starting out stage... every little detail is important. This is where all the subtle attraction stuff comes in... all the game playing... they are constantly looking for something to reject a man for... and coming on too strong and trying to force a more serious relationship... that stops it right there. It has to go at the woman's pace of attraction, otherwise it's not going to work.

But once it flips over into the distinctly in a relationship phase, then details don't matter so much. The woman has accepted this man as worthy of their full affection. Then saying full on romantic things, reminding them how much they mean... it's all appropriate and appreciated. All the subtle game playing... it's of no use... they know exactly what kind of relationship it is. In fact game playing will probably lead to heartache... it will just cause doubt. Revealing everything that is in each others hearts... all appropriate... and is actually expected.

I've been thinking that a lot of the dating advice... is really just trying to cover up many of the details until you are in the relationship stage. You're a hardcore starwars fan... well don't tell her that on the first date... that's a surefire disaster. All the flirting, game playing, attraction stuff that isn't really how someone acts naturally... it is there to slowly be endearing to someone until they are ready to trust and dive into a real relationship.

A problem with me...and I am assuming most of the nice guys out there too... is that I really want the relationship stage. It's the goal, what the dating business is all about. Finding someone you are very compatible with, someone that you care about, and someone that cares about you. This desire is so strong, and the idea of casual dating so pointless... that many guys just jump into the serious relationship business. This is all well and good for a guy... but the girl just can't accept someone this quickly. I've read that it's a turn-off... and I believe the whole way nice guys act assumes some level of serious relationship from the get go. It doesn't appear so to the guy... but it's assuming and forcing the women into a relationship she isn't ready for yet.

Another problem is that women and these nice guys... both say they want the same thing. Women want a serious relationship with no games... nice guys want a quality relationship where they can be their nice caring self. They both want the same thing, so the nice guy thinks if he provides what women want... then it'll be great. Not understanding that women want that kind of relationship, only after they are duly attracted and ready to form that sort of relationship... which just doesn't happen as fast as with men.

Are any of these ideas true? I know it's a gross generalization... and every person is different. But from all I've seen and read... this is basically how it works. And recognizing what stages of a relationship a women is expecting is of utmost importance. And guys have to tailor their interactions to what the girl is expecting for best results.

Hi,

I can only speak for myself, not for NT women. In fact I haven't been in a relationship for about 8 years, so whatever I am doing to attract guys isn't working!

Anyway, for me the biggest thing that puts me off a guy is when he assumes that one or two dates makes us boyfriend/girlfriend. To me they are just - dates. No more & no less. No committment has even been discussed, let alone agreed to.

The last guy I went out with (on the second date) got in a huff when I didn't want to sit in a cosy corner or go for a romantic walk with him. He then tried to invite himself to my house for the weekend. And finally I had to tell him to stop staring at me in a really soppy way because it was totally freaking me out.

As far as I was concerned we had got nowhere near the stage for any of that yet and I found him way too overbearing. I didn't go out with him again.

From what you say in your post I am wondering if maybe you have been acting a bit like this guy? i.e. assuming that because a woman has agreed to a date with you, that makes her your girlfriend.

Unfortunately this is not the case. There are many reasons why a woman agrees to go on a date, e.g. "My friends keep teasing me because I am single, so the next guy who asks me, I'll say "yes"" or "Any man is better than none" or "This could be a laugh". In my case it was because the guy was a co-worker with a friend of mine and he set us up, so I went as a favour to my friend.

For me, I can't be in a relationship with a guy unless I care about him. And I'm not going to do that until I've got to know him pretty well as a friend first. Otherwise it's just totally fake, and I can't do that.

Well I haven't really experienced much or gotten to the point where I could act like this guy. And it sounds like this guy is way too forward, and just plain creepy. Especially if you have given no indication otherwise... though if you give guys a little attention they will imagine a lot more... I think... depending on the experience of the guy.

The weird thing about me is, if I am going to go through the effort of trying to attract someone... I have already formed a pretty solid opinion about them. I don't approach women just out of the blue... if I am showing interest it's because I have noticed something very special... and have evaluated much in my brain. In my brain I am ready to start a serious relationship... if she lets me. Of course this is considering that starting a relationship is something you can just turn on with a switch... which I am learning is not the case with women.

I am just trying to establish a good understanding of what is really going on in dating and relationships. From what you describe, my conceptualizing isn't that far off. Thanks for your comments.

Last edited by Pugly on 23 Aug 2007, 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

I certainly didn't remember that bit oO

Anyways, it may be that they are looking for things to reject for because they want to make sure they know what they are committing themselves to, which I see no harm in, I guess it depends on the situation. But who's to say that the relationship progressing depends on the woman entirely? It's a mutual thing, the man has to be attracted too, yes? And I'm certain he'd like to set standards too.

Well I think it's the whole first impression thing... which I think is more strong in women. Something said initially, or even in the first couple of weeks of knowing someone... is much more important... than after a relationship is formed.

Lets say someone goes out on a date with a guy... this guys car breaks down... gets very frustrated and lets bad words fly. Starting out... this is no good... the women will probably reject this guy... I think. But if they were in a relationship... something else would happen... it would be a bad sign... and something they would have to work through. But I doubt she would completely dumb him over something like this...

Men have first impression standards too... and having standards is a great thing. But I think it's in the nature of the man choosing to go and approach and date women... that he has already evaluated her and found her worthy so he is inclined to push the relationship a little faster.

If some guy was looking for a long term relationship and didn't mention he was obsessed with Star Wars on the first date, and I found out later in the relationship that he had an obsession and it was "Fill in the Blank" I would get red flashing lights and alarm bells (that's my BS detector going off) and not be able to trust him much because I would always be asking myself "what else is he hiding?" "how else does he think for me about what he thinks I like/dislike?"

Merle

[quote="Pugly]Lets say someone goes out on a date with a guy... this guys car breaks down... gets very frustrated and lets bad words fly. Starting out... this is no good... the women will probably reject this guy... I think[/quote]

I wouldn't reject a guy for that; in fact it'd probably make me relate to him more because that's the same way I would act! (But then I'm not NT)

[quote="Pugly]But I think it's in the nature of the man choosing to go and approach and date women... that he has already evaluated her and found her worthy so he is inclined to push the relationship a little faster.[/quote]

But in this situation, the woman has not had the same opportunity to have evaluated the man - in fact he may not even have been on her radar until then. That is why he could seem to be moving to fast for her.

Oh yeah, I agree. I am just trying to find an explanation for why "nice guys" get rejected early on for coming on too strong.

Here is the process, how it works in a guys head... the introverted romantic type guy.

-He sees or finds out about a women he is attracted to for some reason. Initially it's just a fleeting idea, but through general observation and small interaction... it slowly builds into a strong attraction. This is someone worth while enough for his affections.

-If he's found out something about her, he either makes up or honestly evaluates that he is someone she could be attracted to also.

-He evaluates that if he wants a relationship with her, and she wants a relationship with someone like him... it will work out perfectly.

-He attempts to attract and woo her, already assuming that she should find him attractive and a perfect mate... he comes on too strong and starts trying to form a heavy relationship early. Without any acknowledgment on his part to how a woman wants or needs a relationship to start.

-I think to do introversion and excess thinking, they guy has already evaluated that a relationship could work out really well. Which he is probably right about, but it takes time and slow building for women to let the guard down form their heart.... which the guy is unaware of.

Interesting. I'm a guy btw. I myself only consider something a 'date' once I'm actually with someone - otherwise I consider it as merely 'hanging out'. I'll only consider something to be a date once I've asked the person out and they've agreed.

I'm opposed.

I have a refrigerator magnet with a four panel cartoon on it.
it is the drawing of a woman's head, she is speaking in all four panels.

first panel,
"ooh, I just love him, he's so sensitive!"

second panel
'he isn't afraid to hold hands or kiss me in public!"

third panel
"he is so considerate of my feelings!"

fourthpanel
dismissively "what a Geek!"

Last edited by sinsboldly on 25 Aug 2007, 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

This is a very low act ....you are using the guy who's asking you out just as a trophy in front of others or as a favor for others and not because you like him , you should never do that again .

The main reason that you don't want to come on too strong in the beginning is that you don't know how she feels about you. It doesn't take much for a women to reject you if she has no romantic feelings towards you.

Once a woman considers you unattractive, or not romance material, it's hard to change her mind. And why should she change? Women tend to have a few romantic options at any given time.

Nice guys tend to fixate on one women they consider to be their ideal match. Unfortunately if she doesn't feel the same way it's a waste of time.

In general it is safe to assume that if a guy asks you out it is because he has romantic intentions. To reject him after he expresses those feeling would be confusing to most.

Dating individuals with AS traits must take some effort - normal social rules don't seem to apply.

Interesting.

Most women seem to view me as a 'nice guy' yet in the last fifty years I've broken nine out of the ten commandments multiple times and I can be just as cruel and mean as any NT out there. I suspect that 'nice guy' is just a myth and underneath everyone is the same.

Ed Almos

Having been a woman for over 40 years ( I was a girl and a teen ager before I was a woman) I have to say my biggest issue with men is I can not understand if they are interested in me or not.

I don't recognize that they are flirting with me, I don't recognize that they want to hang out with me, I don't know they might want something other than just a quick roll in the hay, I can't understand when they single me out for dinner, or one time an airplane ride above the city!, or even make an appointment to pick me up for dinner and going to a play or a movie. Not a clue.

I have no idea how many good, kind, gentlemen intentions I have blithely ignored; signals that would have stopped a train!

I would like to apologize to all those men that tried. I am sorry I missed you. I would have loved your company, your jokes, your dreams and your manhood. Had I known I would have been your most loyal companion, your fiercest defender, your quiet cheerleader and your devoted sexual pleasure partner. My most contrite apology, dear ones.


Merle