Female false red flag signals

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Xenorere
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13 Oct 2024, 1:01 am

So Im trying to find a way to articulate this...

It seems like women, autistic or not seem to over analyze signals from men and just kind of have this standard of how all men should act or interact, and any man who "seems off" or "does a weird movement," they immediately place him in the "danger zone." Ive noticed it pretty much my whole life, but half the time if you bring it up, you're the one that gets attacked for the observation. How is it even possible for an autistic or someone with some mental health thing like adhd or Tourettes, to talk to a woman without triggering their "danger sense?" It honestly just feels like prejudice at this point to me. I've had multiple girlfriends, to be clear, but nothing lasted and it was all in high school when no one understood signals. But Im mostly talking about adult life after high school, because that's when everyone puts their guard up and has past trauma of some sort. I dont even pursue women anymore because of this, but it still makes me sad. Idk, this is part rant but part me genuinely wanting answers :skull: :|



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13 Oct 2024, 2:07 am

Xenorere wrote:
So Im trying to find a way to articulate this...

It seems like women, autistic or not seem to over analyze signals from men and just kind of have this standard of how all men should act or interact, and any man who "seems off" or "does a weird movement," they immediately place him in the "danger zone." Ive noticed it pretty much my whole life, but half the time if you bring it up, you're the one that gets attacked for the observation. How is it even possible for an autistic or someone with some mental health thing like adhd or Tourettes, to talk to a woman without triggering their "danger sense?" It honestly just feels like prejudice at this point to me. I've had multiple girlfriends, to be clear, but nothing lasted and it was all in high school when no one understood signals. But Im mostly talking about adult life after high school, because that's when everyone puts their guard up and has past trauma of some sort. I dont even pursue women anymore because of this, but it still makes me sad. Idk, this is part rant but part me genuinely wanting answers :skull: :|


Strictly speaking, it is a prejudice. It's just that it's hard to really condemn people for seeking to protect themselves from people who might harm them.

I 'seem off' but I have also been able to find romantic partners as an adult. It's not impossible, but when a lot of people are dealing with trauma as a result of not noticing red flags or because people were deceptive with them, it's hard to blame them for being hyper-vigilant afterwards.

Just talk to women like they're people. Don't treat them like the other or put them up on a pedestal. In my experience this is especially effective because a lot of guys don't take that approach and behave more like Fnord is describing, and then wonder why they're always failing.


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Xenorere
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13 Oct 2024, 2:20 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Xenorere wrote:
So Im trying to find a way to articulate this...

It seems like women, autistic or not seem to over analyze signals from men and just kind of have this standard of how all men should act or interact, and any man who "seems off" or "does a weird movement," they immediately place him in the "danger zone." Ive noticed it pretty much my whole life, but half the time if you bring it up, you're the one that gets attacked for the observation. How is it even possible for an autistic or someone with some mental health thing like adhd or Tourettes, to talk to a woman without triggering their "danger sense?" It honestly just feels like prejudice at this point to me. I've had multiple girlfriends, to be clear, but nothing lasted and it was all in high school when no one understood signals. But Im mostly talking about adult life after high school, because that's when everyone puts their guard up and has past trauma of some sort. I dont even pursue women anymore because of this, but it still makes me sad. Idk, this is part rant but part me genuinely wanting answers :skull: :|


Strictly speaking, it is a prejudice. It's just that it's hard to really condemn people for seeking to protect themselves from people who might harm them.

I 'seem off' but I have also been able to find romantic partners as an adult. It's not impossible, but when a lot of people are dealing with trauma as a result of not noticing red flags or because people were deceptive with them, it's hard to blame them for being hyper-vigilant afterwards.

Just talk to women like they're people. Don't treat them like the other or put them up on a pedestal. In my experience this is especially effective because a lot of guys don't take that approach and behave more like Fnord is describing, and then wonder why they're always failing.


I dont think I put them on a pedestal much anymore, I dont even really care most of the time enough to say anything. When I do, I talk normally with them, and everything is usually fine, even very attractive ones, but i mean when and if I even imply attraction, it's like it just flips on it's head and suddenly I'm weird and awkward and its highway to the danger zone time :ninja:



Last edited by Cornflake on 13 Oct 2024, 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.: Corrected an attribution error

funeralxempire
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13 Oct 2024, 2:26 am

Xenorere wrote:
I dont think I put them on a pedestal much anymore, I dont even really care most of the time enough to say anything. When I do, I talk normally with them, and everything is usually fine, even very attractive ones, but i mean when and if I even imply attraction, it's like it just flips on it's head and suddenly I'm weird and awkward and its highway to the danger zone time :ninja:


It can be hard.

How often when you imply attraction, is it with someone who's already done the same towards you? The problem might not be with expressing interest, so much as expressing interest in people who aren't prepared for it.


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"Many of us like to ask ourselves, What would I do if I was alive during slavery? Or the Jim Crow South? Or apartheid? What would I do if my country was committing genocide?' The answer is, you're doing it. Right now." —Former U.S. Airman (Air Force) Aaron Bushnell


Xenorere
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13 Oct 2024, 2:38 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Xenorere wrote:
I dont think I put them on a pedestal much anymore, I dont even really care most of the time enough to say anything. When I do, I talk normally with them, and everything is usually fine, even very attractive ones, but i mean when and if I even imply attraction, it's like it just flips on it's head and suddenly I'm weird and awkward and its highway to the danger zone time :ninja:


It can be hard.

How often when you imply attraction, is it with someone who's already done the same towards you? The problem might not be with expressing interest, so much as expressing interest in people who aren't prepared for it.


I really dont imply attraction anymore because I dont trust my judgement in reading them anymore, I've done it so many times when I was sure I was reading the signals right, and then turns out I was wrong, happened about 90% of this time before I gave up completely. However, there has been this girl at a store I go to sometimes who I find attractive somewhat and she seems to have been implying she might be into me? But I have a hard time trusting it, she has gone out of her way to talk to me more than she needs to while working and has asked questions about me, like regular flirty banter, but idk, I can tell she's also autistic, probly asd1, by her communication and body language... but the thing is, as an autistic person also I know that we can make it seem like we're flirting and/or interested in one way, but may not be the way the other person is thinking, for example, I used to have alot of female friends and some of them have mistaken my interest for romantic interest... so ya



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13 Oct 2024, 2:49 am

Xenorere wrote:
So Im trying to find a way to articulate this...

It seems like women, autistic or not seem to over analyze signals from men and just kind of have this standard of how all men should act or interact, and any man who "seems off" or "does a weird movement," they immediately place him in the "danger zone." Ive noticed it pretty much my whole life, but half the time if you bring it up, you're the one that gets attacked for the observation. How is it even possible for an autistic or someone with some mental health thing like adhd or Tourettes, to talk to a woman without triggering their "danger sense?" It honestly just feels like prejudice at this point to me. I've had multiple girlfriends, to be clear, but nothing lasted and it was all in high school when no one understood signals. But Im mostly talking about adult life after high school, because that's when everyone puts their guard up and has past trauma of some sort. I dont even pursue women anymore because of this, but it still makes me sad. Idk, this is part rant but part me genuinely wanting answers :skull: :|

A lot depends on the circumstances under which you are getting to know the woman in the first place.

What are your hobbies/interests, if any? Have you tried joining any groups (e.g. on Meetup.com) that are focused on your hobbies/interests, or that are devoted to activities you enjoy?

It's much less awkward to talk to someone when there is a common interest or activity that you can focus on.


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13 Oct 2024, 3:11 am

Many women do seem to have a heightened threat-sense.  Maybe you are doing nothing overt, but the way you move, the way you look at them, the tone of your voice, or a mere gesture could trigger their threat-sense and inspire them to have nothing to do with you.  I do not pretend to understand it -- it just happens.


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Xenorere
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13 Oct 2024, 3:37 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
Xenorere wrote:
So Im trying to find a way to articulate this...

It seems like women, autistic or not seem to over analyze signals from men and just kind of have this standard of how all men should act or interact, and any man who "seems off" or "does a weird movement," they immediately place him in the "danger zone." Ive noticed it pretty much my whole life, but half the time if you bring it up, you're the one that gets attacked for the observation. How is it even possible for an autistic or someone with some mental health thing like adhd or Tourettes, to talk to a woman without triggering their "danger sense?" It honestly just feels like prejudice at this point to me. I've had multiple girlfriends, to be clear, but nothing lasted and it was all in high school when no one understood signals. But Im mostly talking about adult life after high school, because that's when everyone puts their guard up and has past trauma of some sort. I dont even pursue women anymore because of this, but it still makes me sad. Idk, this is part rant but part me genuinely wanting answers :skull: :|

A lot depends on the circumstances under which you are getting to know the woman in the first place.

What are your hobbies/interests, if any? Have you tried joining any groups (e.g. on Meetup.com) that are focused on your hobbies/interests, or that are devoted to activities you enjoy?

It's much less awkward to talk to someone when there is a common interest or activity that you can focus on.


Ive gone on meetup before, but not much in my area that I'm interested in, it seemed like mostly politics or public speaking... which may as well be politics. I'm mostly into human behavioral psychology, philosophy, gaming, asian cultures and languages, some anime, some martial arts, I like alot of stuff besides that, but ya



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13 Oct 2024, 7:05 am

 ! Cornflake wrote:
Several attacky posts and references to them have been removed.

Please play nicely and importantly - this is a forum for neurodivergent folk where blunt, unvarnished posts tend to be frequent and are usually not meant as attacks.


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13 Oct 2024, 8:32 am

I wonder if you have someone you trust in your life, like a female friend or family member, you could ask about this topic who might know what you’re doing specifically that’s making women wary/think there’s red flags.

I’ve experienced a lot of abuse and harassment in my life, even recently, and am very cautious about who I trust. I like people who are atypical and quirky, but it takes time for me to build up trust with anyone. Some things that I consider red flags when I first meet someone - staring, especially at body parts, touchy-feeliness, any hint of sexism, seeming desperate, being dismissive of female concerns/issues, and stalkery behavior. Sometimes I’m just uncomfortable and haven’t worked through why. Even if I think I might like someone, I’m cautious and try to build a friendship with the person before dating them. I wouldn’t date a random person who approached me. I think I’ve seen too much of the dark side of people to automatically trust them. I’m cautious with women, too, but men are typically bigger and/or stronger.

I don’t think women are typically overanalyzing signals so much as being cautious due to valid safety concerns. Most women experience harassment at some point in their lives and some experience even worse behavior or know people who have.



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13 Oct 2024, 10:48 am

If a woman labels you a creep or implies you are one, as a dude, they are effectively socially demeaning you and if you have some issue like Tourette's Syndrome which might disturb a woman even when you can't help the movements, the problem is with them, not you.

Do what they do to you - socially relegate them in your mind to a low priority and don't let them enter your mind in any significant way.



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13 Oct 2024, 10:59 am

I don't understand all this red flag business me


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13 Oct 2024, 1:11 pm

I think that this is a very real problem.

Humans are very attuned to subtleties in social interactions, so they tend to immediately notice the smallest difference, like someone looking away while talking, responding too slowly or too quickly, being to sudden, too blunt, standing too close, saying something awkward, like trying to give a compliment but saying something that is too personal or intrusive. This sends off alarm bells because it's not what is expected, even if it's completely harmless.

I don't know what the answer is. It may be possible to study these behaviors and try to avoid them, but it might be too difficult, or not possible.

I think part of the problem is that in trying to identify creeps and creepy behavior in order to protect women, men who are just awkward have been swept up under that umbrella. It might help to remember that disability like ASD and other neurodivergence is also a protected category, like gender. One does not take precedence over the other, but most often we assume that gender takes precedence over "awkwardness" because we don't recognize that it's an actual disability in many cases. Perhaps we can work on trying to foster a culture of acceptance of slight oddities in behavior and to distinguish it from actual predatory and threatening behavior, which actually has very little or nothing in common with awkwardness.



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13 Oct 2024, 1:19 pm

It seems to be the in thing these days to look out for these red flags...you do get a bit bored of it

I wish we could just go back to plain old intuition it was way easier and much more civilised

People don't see people anymore, they just see red flags and to be fair not everyone is out to get everyone just because they may have a quirk of personality or a broken nose


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13 Oct 2024, 1:29 pm

Intuition didn’t work out that well for me. I wish I was more aware of red flags when I was younger because I could’ve avoided a lot of messed up s**t.

I don’t find stuff like quirkiness a red flag, though. It’s something I like and am drawn to. Of course, I guess it comes down to people having different preferences and views.

I do think that if someone is consistently struggling with something figuring out why and trying to work on it might be a good idea if they want to improve their prospects. Society isn’t going to change anytime soon, especially not when harassment and assault are still huge problems.



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13 Oct 2024, 1:52 pm

My intuition has probably saved my life on many occasions because unfortunately the most dangerous people are really good at hiding their red flags

For example when I was about 16 years old my intuition told me to get the hell away from a certain person who later on kidnapped, raped and tied up two of my friends and they had to escape from the persons property


I can't see that any red flags would have helped against this particular individual


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