NT needs help understanding...

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ok..so there is this AS guy I would lke to get to know better. We've had a pretty in-depth discussion about this..not really sure what if any conclusion we came up with, as I think he feels his AS is a huge hinderance. Anyway...since AS have a difficult time "reading" body language, does everything I want to communicate to my friend have to be in direct words ( which is ok with me as I am a good verbal communicator) or does any body language at all get through into the AS mind? He is also faceblind, so that does add a seperate challenge...

any ideas/advice very welcome...

Listen, one thing I definitely have to say off the top - you've definitely got a challenge and I can only imagine how tricky it is to get through to someone on that level, especially when just by the nature of it most things are usually supposed to be left unspoken.

I'm almost thinking, if you really want success with this, you'll want to get a while to know him and take it slow just because unfortunately AS is a real diverse and buckshot condition - some people can read body language and social cues but other people can't read them, others do have literal mindedness issues, face blindness, hypersensitivites, so you'll want to do your best to figure him out and figure out exactly what your dealing with when it comes to his blocks. I think eventually you'll be able to put two and two together on a lot of his reactions and behaviors, learn how to read him at least well enough to kind of have a temperature gage on situations, it may not always be perfect just because as I'm sure your well aware he's probably just as complicated as anyone else - which is of course why you really want to do what you can to sort of crack his code. If you do like him and feel like he's well worth it, I really give you a lot of props.

So I guess that's really all I can say with what I know of the situation, take it slow and try to figure out as much as you can before you get into anything that intimate or socially intricate to where the communication challenges get too ridiculous. Also if you can get him to be a better communicator, just in subtle ways, it would be great if he can meet you half way or about as close as he can manage.

It's probably different for everyone, but as long as your body language is consistent I think AS folks can learn it.

I know I can... though I may or may not have AS...

Don't assume anything about what he can understand, unless you know for certain he's understood in the past.

Keep being patient... that's important...

I'll describe how I interpret faces (Keep in mind that I know nothing about how other aspies do it):

When conversing with someone, facial communication doesn't come instinctively, but like most anything, if I concentrate on it, I can communicate more fluently with my face. However, if I'm concentrating on my, and the other person's face, it means that I'm diverting some of the attention from what they're saying. For this reason, I like to look away from someone's face when I'm listening or speaking.
I'll try a metaphor: You know how when you're going on a road trip somewhere new, and your trying to find out which lane to be in and which streets to turn on, all you're attention is on your driving. If you're driving a route you've taken many times before, you don't even think about your driving along the way. For me, I can't sit back and let my face communicate my thoughts like the routine drive; I have to focus on my face to accomplish anything, much like a navigator focuses on the road.

That is the absolute best description of how some Aspies listen! I have tried to explain this to NTs, but they usually think I am bored or inattentive when I look away. I'm going to remember that.

Yeah, I tend not to have it that bad in the sense of being able to keep an external track of my own expressionality but a lot of times when I am talking to someone and feel like eye contact will drain me I'll kind of stand up close to em with my ear pointed in their direction and look forward in a way that shows that I'm honed in on really trying to digest the meaning of what they're saying.

It differs among different people - the syndrome is more of a spectrum of tendencies than a single easily identifiable phenotype.


For me, the answer to your question would be "Yes", if you absolutely wanted to be sure that the message you want to get across got across. It's not like you could never use body language to communicate (that would be impossible) - some does get through. But anything that's subtle at all may not, and if it's something that really needs to be communicated it's best to take the direct route. There's pretty much a guarantee that direct, literal statements will be understood.

It's like being hearing impaired, but not deaf... you can hear a loud, deliberate conversation pretty easily, but anything softly spoken, or anything at normal volume that's particularly fast or complicated is likely to get confused, misheard or outright missed without outside assistance.

ok..I think I get it....body language to a person who has As is like whispering to a semi-deaf person...

I am sure everyone is different, but my AS bf and I developed our own language/sounds and gestures as we got to know each other. We crack up sometimes because in public we get odd looks. However, being direct is necessary. Do not direct sarcasm at him (like “nice haircut”) because it will make him paranoid. Sarcasm can be general (“great driver” when someone cuts you off).

I find the biggest challenge is not being offended when he needs alone time. That was hard before I discovered AS, but now I look forward to my own alone time. Giving alone time requires trust. It was also difficult to learn to not interrupt him when he is focused on a task. Multi tasking and quick decision making are not wise things to expect.

Be his support and develop ways that you can cue him as to who someone he doesn’t recognize is, and learn his body language so you know when he is confused or frustrated. Be kind. Be patient. As you should be in all relationships…

The usage of body language depends on the person, but it is not as important as remaining committed (I know that sounds difficult, but bear with me for a minute...) Many aspies are either unaware (they come across as "naive", but it's far from that) of how the "expected" relationship takes, or have been rejected many times for so long that they become cynical about loce(in which case they may become detached from you, especially if you take your approach too quickly), as is my case. If he completely blows you off at any point, without actually saying that he doesn't want a relationship, he's probably just uncomfortable. Other than that, just keep certain aspie traits in mind (most aspies don't make direct eye contact, sensitivities may cause them to overreact to a given setting, etc.)

One more thing: As long as you remain committed to him, he should remain committed to you. Aspies (with very few exceptions) tend to be very loyal to those they call friends, and unless you do something that breaks that trust (i.e. cheat on him), he should remain loyal for the rest of the relationship (even up to death). Granted, given the complexity of Aspergers, there are most likely to be exceptions to that, but those are few and far between.

Patience is definitely the most important element here...as well as understanding, not making assumptions.

I'm in an AS/NT relationship, me being the NT, and my partner has a pretty mild case of it. The BIGGEST issue we have is communication, of course. I’m naturally a private kinda person and I come from a family that communicates almost ENTIRELY by body language (watch out Aspies!), so this is STILL all new to me a year on. He has issues reading my body language and hints in my tone of voice, but seems to expect I’m telepathic or something. Lol. It’s a pain in the arse I assure you, but the result of getting sh!t together is well worth it.

Last night was a fine example of that. He was having a ‘lazy day’, being Sunday, and had no intention of doing anything aside from lying flat on his back with his laptop. Of course, he also had no intention of telling me that either. Naturally, I was poised on the arm of the couch by the door with my shoes on and my car keys in my hand, staring around the place in a please-can-we-damn-well-do-something-already manner. Two hours of pretty much nothing ensued, because I wasn’t quite ready to tell him to quit being lazy and bloody do something, and it hadn’t entered into his head that he needed to TELL ME he didn’t want to do anything. Yeah. Communication fart ftl. I left in a huff to go work on the car, didn’t talk to him for the rest of the day, until he finally IMed me and apologised for blowing me off. I’m quick to forgive and quick to admit my own mistakes, so we were sweet in no time.

Anyway.

Be clear in what you say/mean. I’ve found that while it is difficult to inadvertently insult an Aspie face-to-face (like it is to us NTs...I’m sure everyone here has noticed this...lol), avoid sarcasm and do NOT patronise them! Of all things, this is something that’s likely to get you smited for doing. Be understanding, but don’t overdo it and let AS become an excuse. A few of my mates have worn it for that – sometimes it can hold you back but it has significant advantages over the NT mind in places too...levelling the playing field nicely. I’d kill for the focus, concentration and intelligence so many people here seem to have...would make work so much easier!

Just be a friend. Offer unconditional friendship – don’t take offence to things not intended as an offence. Sometimes things slip out that shouldn’t (eg: my man saying I was getting good at the ‘appearing dumb but being really intelligent’ thing...to which I gave him a filthy look but saw what he really meant. LOL nice one...) but they mean no harm. Probably one of the major parts of friendship and relationships here, of which I have a few in real life...grow a thick skin, you will need it. From what I see nothing is ever an intentional insult, but either a misconception, poorly worded observation or brutal honesty.

Get him to make you aware of his needs – eg: alone time, sensory issues, specific needs for clarity, etc. Make him aware of yours if it’s a strong friendship or a relationship in mind. We NT gals are often very cuddly by nature and need contact (I sure do). You know what you want out of either kind of relationship...let him know. GENTLY, but clearly, of course

I'm so glad I found this thread! I too am an NT gal dating an Aspie guy. I am having a really hard time understanding him and I know he's having the same issues trying to understand me. This thread is giving me hope.

Communication has been our biggest issue. We'll be fine and totally happy one minute and then fighting the next. How do you work through it?

I'd like to hear more from fivecents about how she and her guy discovered their own language.
Maybe that's something my guy and I should explore??

Also, is there a support group for NT gals that love Aspie guys?

Hi Firgs. The private language happened long before I discovered AS. I am a relatively laid back and accepting person when it comes to other people, and I simply took his lead on most things. I told him there could be only one boss in the relationship and he is in charge of all decisions (ha, it kind of works, unless I disagree and do what I feel like anyway, in a nice way). I would observe his patterns and live within his boundries. When he comes home from work he has unlimited alone time and I do not bother him until he comes to me. At first this was really hard, but I decided I would rather have him 100% when he was “done” chores, alone time, etc. I decided to accommodate that. A lot of our relationship was me learning to give up control and having things my way all the time. The reward is he does most things the way I would anyway, so we live harmoniously.

The language thing is a series of exaggerated gestures, noises and code words that make being in a relationship fun. One day we were on the beach and we were gesturing and grunting about a sandwich we were sharing and he started cracking up saying that everyone around us must think we are a deaf ret*d couple. We never care what people think, so that works out as well. All of the gestures, etc., come from my playing on what he does and making it part of our daily interactions. A lot is totally childish, but we do it anyway, it’s just a different form of communication. We deal with grown up issues using made up words.

Also, when I want to have a discussion with him, I tell him up front that I do not expect a reply right away, and then ask my question. Usually he follows up several days later. If not, I ask again and wait for a reply, as I know he has contemplated the question. It is like any relationship, you figure out what works for your temperament.

Patience is the key. I remember in the beginning of our relationship when we fell asleep I’d end up finding him and “smothering” him. Now, it’s the complete opposite, he finds me when we sleep and I get cuddles (he gets them too). But, we have code words when we want to be cuddled or want space to breathe.

We have exaggerated faces we make at each other to express humor or annoyance. I also don’t chit chat with him about non relevant things (like so and so did such and such). We discuss news, politics, really important things that happened to either one of us personally at work or with family, but if I tell a fishing story, I can assure you he is not listening, as he has no interest in fishing. Bright side is I have a few close girlfriends that I have as chitty chatty outlets. It has taken me a long time to figure out that his not listening to me tell irrelevant stories does not mean he does not care. Less is more. I care about him so I concede in this issue. He cares about me and washes my car. Car washing is a sign of affection for him.

You two need to figure out how to communicate with each other. You need to be willing to learn a whole new way of doing and saying things. Just ask him to repeat back to you what you said sometimes. You will be surprised how you said one thing and he heard another. But you will learn how to say things differently.

Also, I think WP is the only support group for girls who love AS boys. The advice here is so relevant to understanding the person you love. I would not trade my bf for the world. I always tell him what is wrong with him is what makes him perfect for me!!

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you fivecents! I can't tell you how much this helps me. The whole "giving him space after work" makes total sense now that I hear it. Also, the part about giving up control. I am a "control freak" and I realize now that I'm going to have to make some major adjustments in my behavior!!

I honestly think he's worth it though. Even though we come from two different worlds, we just fit somehow.

I'm so glad I found WP!! !

No official support group, no - but there are a few of us, and we get to know each other quite quickly

Fighting - yeah, we're always going from fine to flamefest in a matter of seconds. Lots of misunderstandings. Lots of stupid disagreements. The trick is you have to learn to a) cool off quickly and effectively, b) be quick to forgive, and c) onjectively analyse where the spat came from and why it happened...what the triggers where and how to resolve the conflict.

For me, I am a car fan and going for a 'spirited drive' (read: lose some traction) usually helps immensely. You need to ditch the anger and so does he...Aspies are very good at analysing as well, and being objective, so once everyone is cooled off, calmly discussing things is pretty easy. . Get him to see your side of the story but also see his.

Looking at what Fivecents wrote...Cam and I don't actually have a language perse. Thankfully he has taught himself how to read sarcasm, tones in voice and body language to a basic degree...and he's learned how to read mine. He just needs to learn to express himself in a similar fashion, whether the cues are 'NT' or otherwise...so I know when to back off, when to offer hugs, when to assert my opinion (he hates me just agreeing) and when to just let him have his say (hates arguing too much as well). It’s really hard to tell, until he gets angry x___x;; Mainly because he appears pretty much emotionless until he flies off the handle. Communication...naaaah.

A fundamental part about EVERY human being is methods of affection – no one is the same as anyone else. There are several categories of how people both show and enjoy receiving affection...someone can fit right into one, or have two or three that apply. Touch/cuddles, money, gifts, time spent, words/talking, etc. Someone that falls under the touch/cuddles category will be clingy and touchy-feely with someone they like. They will show affection that way too – perhaps offering a massage, or something more fun They will avoid being touchy-feely with people they don’t like, most likely. The best way to show them affection is to be touchy-feely back. Don’t be afraid to hug them, kiss them, caress them. For family and friends, they are the huggers – ALWAYS trying to hug you. Avoiding hugs to them says ‘I don’t like you, go away.’ You can imagine how the others work...

Money – person loves spending money on those they love. Monetary gifts mean the most to them – spending money on them is the most meaningful show of affection you can give them.

Talkers – are constantly talking your ear off! They don’t stop! Let them talk to show you love them...take the time to have an in-depth conversation with them. Heck, you don’t even have to listen if they’re rambling...just don’t let them find out you’re off in your own world, because that will hurt them.

Gift-givers – always getting those they love little trinkets, little gifts. Surprise them with gifts right back, it will give them the warm fuzzies!

Time-spenders – Always want to hang out. Always on top of you. Rejecting them for this hurts them – if you need your space, get them to understand your reasons why, don’t just reject them. Treat them by hanging out with them...they will love you for it.

Favour-givers – always doing you favours. Do some for them to show your affection.

My man is a talker/favour-giver. How can you tell? This is what they do most. Always talking (though shy as hell with people he doesn’t know, doesn’t make a peep), always fixing my car, in fact right now he’s coding a website for me. I let him talk, have long conversations, take interest in what he’s saying. Also do him favours – get him stuff he needs, do his bidding when his hands are full – even cook/buy food as a treat when he’s busy Spend money on him too, which he seems to like. Food, petrol, car bits he can’t afford, etc.

Aspie or not, NT or not, the above can be VERY helpful in determining how to behave with your partner or friends. Getting them to understand the same can make your life sweeter too


....holy heck on a stick, that was long o.O;

Shale is right. Give back affection the way he expresses it to you. If you are expecting long drawn out “I love you”s, get a romance novel. He pulls my car in the garage when it’s cold (which requires him shuffling other cars – his interest), he starts laundry, he fixes my car or deals with the service person, drives when we go out together, gives rubs on demand (as long as I am not interrupting an interest). Those are his I love yous. I also write him brief love notes all the time and hide them where he will find them. Short and written are easier for him to digest that face to face.

Speaking of interruptions, big no no. It seems a lot of AS have trouble getting back on task. The other week he flooded his garage because he walked into the kitchen to find me making pancakes and forgot he was running a hose.

Do not show up and surprise him. Even if he thinks it is ok, it is only ok when he is not doing something, which is probably never.

Shale also discussed when he talks. If you miss something or don’t understand something, ask for clarification. It is offensive if you nod in agreement.

We also have cues when we are out in public, things like a hand tickle to alert him what he is saying is funny and true, but not appropriate for that specific crowd. His employees call him a social ret*d but respect him and work hard for him. I watch his back for people taking advantage. I just point out what I think; I do not give hard opinions.

These things take at least a year, and we were together for 3 years before I found adult AS information. It helped me forgive so many things that hurt my feelings and helped me decode his world. I think opposite now, like “Why do I need abc so badly?” instead of “why doesn’t he abc?”. I take ownership of how I feel and how I react and don’t blame him.

He is the sweetest, most honest, funniest, hard working, smartest and loyal man I know. I would not trade these qualities for any other “normal” (common) man. Give yours time. Move at his pace (well, not that fast, lol). Express yourself slowly and carefully.

Drat, we are chit chatting...