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MissPickwickian
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25 Dec 2007, 10:29 pm

I am curious about this business of love. I have not experienced it and no one I speak to can coherently define it. Yet it is in every book I read, every movie or television show I see, every song I listen to, and most conversations in which I find myself involved.

I love my mother, I am sure. I love my friends. I love my special interests. But what is romance? I have no idea. Hearing about romantic love is like hearing a physics graduate student attempting to describe what he is studying to the layperson; I do not get it and there is little hope.

When I was a child I thought of love as the exact same thing as friendship (I am high-functioning enough to "get" friendship). In my preadolescence I believed that love was friendship + sex, but I later learned that this was defined as "friends with benefits." Literature gave me an interesting new perspective in my middle teens: Love as a human-to-human religion, the cult of two people worshiping each other. There is much to support this. The poetry of the romantic period uses some of the exact same metaphors as earlier religious and mystical poetry. Eastern philosophy attributes a certain divinity to love and sex.

These are incomplete definitions. I am attempting to define intellectually what essentially cannot be defined intellectually. Neurotypicals I have talked to use highly emotional word choice when speaking of love, "happiness," "trust," and, oddly, "agony," and "ruining your whole life" are common.

People I have seen who are in love scare me. They seem possessed, almost as if they are paranoid or severely obsessive-compulsive, all because of a person who does not look special in any way. Here my curiosity ends, for I do not care to experience such madness. Why couldn't Romeo and Juliet, Pyramus and Thisbe, Jack and Rose, just, you know, walk away? Brain chemicals? Stupidity?

My ideal love is the ideal friendship: A chaste bond of respect, support, caring, intellectual stimulation, and honesty. It would please me greatly to have this love. We could cuddle, talk about Hegel and teachers that we hate, and promise to always be together.


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benjimanbreeg
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25 Dec 2007, 10:45 pm

MissPickwickian wrote:
I am curious about this business of love. I have not experienced it and no one I speak to can coherently define it. Yet it is in every book I read, every movie or television show I see, every song I listen to, and most conversations in which I find myself involved.

I love my mother, I am sure. I love my friends. I love my special interests. But what is romance? I have no idea. Hearing about romantic love is like hearing a physics graduate student attempting to describe what he is studying to the layperson; I do not get it and there is little hope.

When I was a child I thought of love as the exact same thing as friendship (I am high-functioning enough to "get" friendship). In my preadolescence I believed that love was friendship + sex, but I later learned that this was defined as "friends with benefits." Literature gave me an interesting new perspective in my middle teens: Love as a human-to-human religion, the cult of two people worshiping each other. There is much to support this. The poetry of the romantic period uses some of the exact same metaphors as earlier religious and mystical poetry. Eastern philosophy attributes a certain divinity to love and sex.

These are incomplete definitions. I am attempting to define intellectually what essentially cannot be defined intellectually. Neurotypicals I have talked to use highly emotional word choice when speaking of love, "happiness," "trust," and, oddly, "agony," and "ruining your whole life" are common.

People I have seen who are in love scare me. They seem possessed, almost as if they are paranoid or severely obsessive-compulsive, all because of a person who does not look special in any way. Here my curiosity ends, for I do not care to experience such madness. Why couldn't Romeo and Juliet, Pyramus and Thisbe, Jack and Rose, just, you know, walk away? Brain chemicals? Stupidity?

My ideal love is the ideal friendship: A chaste bond of respect, support, caring, intellectual stimulation, and honesty. It would please me greatly to have this love. We could cuddle, talk about Hegel and teachers that we hate, and promise to always be together.


Your version of love sounds just fine to me



Ki_Lunacy
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26 Dec 2007, 12:09 am

MissPickwickian wrote:

My ideal love is the ideal friendship: A chaste bond of respect, support, caring, intellectual stimulation, and honesty. It would please me greatly to have this love. We could cuddle, talk about Hegel and teachers that we hate, and promise to always be together.


That's what I imagine love to be.



Awesomelyglorious
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26 Dec 2007, 12:23 am

MissPickwickian wrote:
I am curious about this business of love. I have not experienced it and no one I speak to can coherently define it. Yet it is in every book I read, every movie or television show I see, every song I listen to, and most conversations in which I find myself involved.

I love my mother, I am sure. I love my friends. I love my special interests. But what is romance? I have no idea. Hearing about romantic love is like hearing a physics graduate student attempting to describe what he is studying to the layperson; I do not get it and there is little hope.

When I was a child I thought of love as the exact same thing as friendship (I am high-functioning enough to "get" friendship). In my preadolescence I believed that love was friendship + sex, but I later learned that this was defined as "friends with benefits." Literature gave me an interesting new perspective in my middle teens: Love as a human-to-human religion, the cult of two people worshiping each other. There is much to support this. The poetry of the romantic period uses some of the exact same metaphors as earlier religious and mystical poetry. Eastern philosophy attributes a certain divinity to love and sex.

These are incomplete definitions. I am attempting to define intellectually what essentially cannot be defined intellectually. Neurotypicals I have talked to use highly emotional word choice when speaking of love, "happiness," "trust," and, oddly, "agony," and "ruining your whole life" are common.

People I have seen who are in love scare me. They seem possessed, almost as if they are paranoid or severely obsessive-compulsive, all because of a person who does not look special in any way. Here my curiosity ends, for I do not care to experience such madness. Why couldn't Romeo and Juliet, Pyramus and Thisbe, Jack and Rose, just, you know, walk away? Brain chemicals? Stupidity?

My ideal love is the ideal friendship: A chaste bond of respect, support, caring, intellectual stimulation, and honesty. It would please me greatly to have this love. We could cuddle, talk about Hegel and teachers that we hate, and promise to always be together.

I think I may have read something like this before. I am too lazy to give the response I gave to that to this topic though.



MissPickwickian
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26 Dec 2007, 1:04 am

Hey Awesomelyglorious,

This was on my blog before, word for word. You commented on it there! I copy-pasted it here because I liked it and thought a wider audience would find it interesting. There is certainly a foundation for your case of deja vu!

Your comment was thoughtful, even beautiful in places. It gives me hope to experience these things someday, if only in my little quirkyalone way.


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Pugly
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26 Dec 2007, 2:33 am

Love is a strange thing for sure. I'm not exactly sure what it is, since to me it's not much different than feelings of friendship and additional feminine qualities that I like. (not all physical either)

At most what I've is something like extreme friendship, that's the only way I can describe it. In fact when I'm feeling particularly close to a friend or family... it's exactly the same. But the feeling drives me to a point of wanting to change myself, or do something towards this other person... for no particular reason.

I can quantify what I like about her, I can logically analyze everything about her as a person... and understand the joy I feel being with her. But It doesn't justify the actions I want to do, nothing sexual either... the crazy romantic ideas that get into my head. Writing music, hugging, helping her with problems, understanding, listening, compassion... all that romantic stuff... it just comes to me to want to do... driven by what I can only guess is love.

The strange thing is, nothing sexual comes into these feelings. The sexual feelings develop out of these other feelings, friendship + her feminine qualities that make me giddy(not physical:caring, thoughtful, comforting) + the romantic urge... leads to a stronger sexual urge. Which is then fueled by the thought of sexuality, not necessarily the physical attractiveness of a woman. Though the female form and certain features help.

That last concept is a very strange feeling, and not something I exactly understand. I find some women beautiful in a purely aesthetic sense, but I have to start thinking sexually to view them in a sexual way. And when I do think this way, I can be attracted to just about anything that's feminine... or even sexual acts/concepts in general.

So yeah, the love feeling I have is extreme friendship.... combined with an urge to do nice, caring things.


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iceb
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26 Dec 2007, 5:30 am

Love:
A dangerous mental illness to be avoided.
It has no cure and will if allowed, develop from confusion into hate.
Worse sometimes you are unaware you have it till it's too late.

A serous illness is preferable to it.

Alright my utter cynicism dealt with I am told sometimes it is good and inspires people to great things.


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gbollard
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26 Dec 2007, 6:25 am

Love is just friendship with the right person on steroids.

There's no flashing sign that says that this is love....

Love isn't infallible and it sometimes/often goes pear shaped.

There's a lot of fighting in love... but also a lot of making up.

Love is really really hard work.

The famous quote is "sometimes my wife and I love eachother and sometimes we have to work at it."

It's not my quote and I forgot whose it is. (sorry).

Your version of love sounds a little ideal but is essentially correct for the good bits.



Awesomelyglorious
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26 Dec 2007, 11:30 am

MissPickwickian wrote:
Hey Awesomelyglorious,

This was on my blog before, word for word. You commented on it there! I copy-pasted it here because I liked it and thought a wider audience would find it interesting. There is certainly a foundation for your case of deja vu!

Your comment was thoughtful, even beautiful in places. It gives me hope to experience these things someday, if only in my little quirkyalone way.

Oh, ok, I think I knew that, but I really did not want to ignore this thought nor did I want to out and out say that I had posted on your blog. You know, one of those little language hidey things to show that I had thought about this, but to not necessarily reveal the truth outside of the intended audience mostly because I don't know how people relate to their blogs.

Thanks for liking my thoughts.

Do you want to read an Objectivist view of love? http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4896

I found it last valentine's day and I thought it was slightly interesting. It does not relate to your comment on love that much but I like sharing it because it is interesting.



MissPickwickian
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26 Dec 2007, 2:28 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Do you want to read an Objectivist view of love? http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4896

I found it last valentine's day and I thought it was slightly interesting. It does not relate to your comment on love that much but I like sharing it because it is interesting.


The writing style was a little aggressive, but I understood the piece entirely. I never bought selfless love; the concept always seemed a bit pointless to me. The "good" couples I've seen about seem to have a symbiotic bind of mutual benefit rather than a courtly love-ish mutual martyrdom. Symbiosis was what nature intended, as it is an efficient and pleasurable way for humans to multiply. I wouldn't call love selfish, but rather a business partnership of the soul, in which two parties strive to both gain for themselves and provide for the other.


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beentheredonethat
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26 Dec 2007, 3:02 pm

First, no one can tell you what love is. As another poster above said, no flashing sign. And if there is, it's probably wrong. As for no sex, not healthy in a really healthy relationship. If you're under age, that's a different consideration. But there ain't nothing wrong with sex between two consenting adults.

As to why didn't Romeo and Juliet just walk away.....well....because it had to do with politics, not love. You're the Dickens fan, read "A Tale of Two Cities" and explain the ending of that one. But if they just walked away, there wouldn't be a story, would there?

That is fiction, I think you're talking about life. There is a great big difference.

Part of the reason you should really be "in love" with a guy before you have sex with him is that in most cases I know, there is always this feeling for both parties of "is that all there is?" The answer is yes, but that's when you're involved in a one-night stand. Good sex is something the two of you have to work at. And don't ask me to explain that one. Just take my word for it.

Love....that takes a lot of work too.

Good luck.
Beentheredonethat



Awesomelyglorious
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26 Dec 2007, 3:31 pm

MissPickwickian wrote:
The writing style was a little aggressive, but I understood the piece entirely. I never bought selfless love; the concept always seemed a bit pointless to me. The "good" couples I've seen about seem to have a symbiotic bind of mutual benefit rather than a courtly love-ish mutual martyrdom. Symbiosis was what nature intended, as it is an efficient and pleasurable way for humans to multiply. I wouldn't call love selfish, but rather a business partnership of the soul, in which two parties strive to both gain for themselves and provide for the other.

Definitely quite aggressive, too aggressive really. Well, Objectivists laud selfishness so calling it selfish is just their thing. I think they do so just to make themselves distinct from other groups. The notion of a business partnership of the soul is probably a metaphor they would appreciate though.