Dating Failure and Relationship Cynicism

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NeantHumain
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30 Mar 2008, 12:30 pm

This probably isn't a profound revelation to most of you, but continued failure to get a date or meet women can easily lead to a cynical attitude towards dating and romance. I have asked so many women out that I nowadays just take a brief look at their profile and send them a fairly generic message (unless something strikes me as especially interesting about them). Here are the closest advances I've had to securing a date/sex/relationship over the past five years (i.e., college and after graduation):

  • Met a girl in the dorms: attractive, seemed nice. Hung out a lot. My attraction to her seemed to have gone to her head at one point. Things went in a bizarre way.
  • Met some girl at a summer job. I wasn't interested in her, especially after she disclosed details of atrocious relationship judgment upon first meeting me (unasked, by the way). Since my sexual options were limited, I eventually decided I might be able to get sex out of her, but apparently by the time I asked her out, it was too late (as in a couple of months too late).
  • Another summer, another summer job. Prospects here weren't very good either, but being horny can make you a little less picky. One girl was talkative enough to be willing to talk to me, and she had a rebellious streak, which made me think I could frame sex as a form of rebellion (against what? I didn't know). I asked for her number and suggested going out to eat at a local Mexican restaurant (I was planning to really sexualize things there, outside work). She gave me a wrong phone number, though, and continued lying about it when confronted (it must have been her sister's or a friend she didn't like's number).
  • Most recently, I met a girl at a charitable activity, got her e-mail, and started talking to her. She wanted to meet but then kept pushing back when we'd meet (which was getting pretty ridiculous since I was losing interest). We finally got a date set, and then she called me half an hour before to cancel because her boyfriend (!) wouldn't like it. I also noticed some weird patterns in the e-mails; for example, if I used one smiley emoticon in my e-mail, she would use one in her response.



Obres
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30 Mar 2008, 12:58 pm

"get sex out of her"? "frame sex as a form of rebellion"? Has it occured to you that you're totally full of s**t and these women obviously realize it?



Obres
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30 Mar 2008, 1:01 pm

NeantHumain wrote:
This probably isn't a profound revelation to most of you, but continued failure to get a date or meet women can easily lead to a cynical attitude towards dating and romance. I have asked so many women out that I nowadays just take a brief look at their profile and send them a fairly generic message (unless something strikes me as especially interesting about them). Here are the closest advances I've had to securing a date/sex/relationship over the past five years (i.e., college and after graduation):
  • Met a girl in the dorms: attractive, seemed nice. Hung out a lot. My attraction to her seemed to have gone to her head at one point. Things went in a bizarre way.
  • Met some girl at a summer job. I wasn't interested in her, especially after she disclosed details of atrocious relationship judgment upon first meeting me (unasked, by the way). Since my sexual options were limited, I eventually decided I might be able to get sex out of her, but apparently by the time I asked her out, it was too late (as in a couple of months too late).
  • Another summer, another summer job. Prospects here weren't very good either, but being horny can make you a little less picky. One girl was talkative enough to be willing to talk to me, and she had a rebellious streak, which made me think I could frame sex as a form of rebellion (against what? I didn't know). I asked for her number and suggested going out to eat at a local Mexican restaurant (I was planning to really sexualize things there, outside work). She gave me a wrong phone number, though, and continued lying about it when confronted (it must have been her sister's or a friend she didn't like's number).
  • Most recently, I met a girl at a charitable activity, got her e-mail, and started talking to her. She wanted to meet but then kept pushing back when we'd meet (which was getting pretty ridiculous since I was losing interest). We finally got a date set, and then she called me half an hour before to cancel because her boyfriend (!) wouldn't like it. I also noticed some weird patterns in the e-mails; for example, if I used one smiley emoticon in my e-mail, she would use one in her response.


Forgot this... qft



Whisperer
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30 Mar 2008, 2:05 pm

Obres wrote:
"get sex out of her"? "frame sex as a form of rebellion"? Has it occured to you that you're totally full of sh** and these women obviously realize it?


That's not too different from what a lot of males say - including those that are successful.
A lot of the later don't care or even have scorn for women.

Part of this is because of women's object-like passiveness in relationships (many admit to just expect to be fought over like trophies) and the fact that sometimes they do throw obstacles in relationships for the sake of it (rejecting a guy they like because they are socially expected to or those games about making their partners jealous) put most men in a situation where they can't be honest even if they wanted too.
While I find it revolting, a lot of NT men think it's THE way of going about having actual relationships (not just one night stands) and most of the arguments I ever had about this matter are because of this majority that cannot fathom relationships being any differently. Personally, I can't love - and most likely can't even have sex with - a person I'm secretly thinking it's stupid and must be lied to for things to work. . . but most males are "higher functioning" than I and so they "adapt" and do what it takes. . . that gets called maturity, confidence, whatever. . .

So. . . I'm not offended if, for a change, an aspie begins trying to figure out how to do things this way. I wouldn't even if a girl were doing something like this to get in my pants - the only reason it doesn't happen is because they don't have to and that's thanks only to the sexist skew of relationships no less.
After all, going without sex (or love!) your entire life just because women demand such an absurd set of personality traits that most men end up shrugging shoulders and faking them doesn't look like an option. . . I really don't picture him lying and destroying women's feelings every other day and whatnot - he's barely giving this a try. So-called winners do it all the time and no one tells them s**t.

Given this, insulting him and "quoting him for truth" is a childish outburst at best. . .



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30 Mar 2008, 2:12 pm

NeantHumain wrote:
Here are the closest advances I've had to securing a date/sex/relationship over the past five years (i.e., college and after graduation):
  • Since my sexual options were limited, I eventually decided I might be able to get sex out of her, but apparently by the time I asked her out, it was too late (as in a couple of months too late).
  • Prospects here weren't very good either, but being horny can make you a little less picky. One girl was talkative enough to be willing to talk to me, and she had a rebellious streak, which made me think I could frame sex as a form of rebellion (against what? I didn't know). I asked for her number and suggested going out to eat at a local Mexican restaurant (I was planning to really sexualize things there, outside work).

I realize that it's an aspie tendency (and even then, not for all aspies) to view people as obstacles and/or as means to an end, but in this case, it's borderline objectification. The phrase "get sex out of her" makes it seem like you're trying to take advantage of her, even though men and women have been playing this game since the dawn of human civilization, despite fervently denying it. The situation with the girl you took to a Mexican restaurant is similar. The way you're describing it sounds cold and calculating. Nonetheless, pick-up artists do it all the time, although they have ways of disguising it.

In my opinion, your cynicism is caused by constant frustration you encounter. The comments you posted are valid to an extend, but they definitely don't sound good, and won't get you much respect either. If you're that focused on getting sex, see an escort. Yes, I said it. It sounds like you need to get sex out of your system ASAP. So an escort service is a very direct way to get rid of your frustration. There's a reason why the world's oldest profession has been around for as long as it was. Once you get your sexual needs taken care of, you might be able to focus more on the human side of relationships. (Laws may vary where you live, so proceed with caution.)



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30 Mar 2008, 2:37 pm

Obres wrote:
"get sex out of her"? "frame sex as a form of rebellion"? Has it occured to you that you're totally full of sh** and these women obviously realize it?


8O marry me.


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techstepgenr8tion
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30 Mar 2008, 3:20 pm

Whisperer wrote:
Obres wrote:
"get sex out of her"? "frame sex as a form of rebellion"? Has it occured to you that you're totally full of sh** and these women obviously realize it?


That's not too different from what a lot of males say - including those that are successful.
A lot of the later don't care or even have scorn for women.

Part of this is because of women's object-like passiveness in relationships (many admit to just expect to be fought over like trophies) and the fact that sometimes they do throw obstacles in relationships for the sake of it (rejecting a guy they like because they are socially expected to or those games about making their partners jealous) put most men in a situation where they can't be honest even if they wanted too.
While I find it revolting, a lot of NT men think it's THE way of going about having actual relationships (not just one night stands) and most of the arguments I ever had about this matter are because of this majority that cannot fathom relationships being any differently. Personally, I can't love - and most likely can't even have sex with - a person I'm secretly thinking it's stupid and must be lied to for things to work. . . but most males are "higher functioning" than I and so they "adapt" and do what it takes. . . that gets called maturity, confidence, whatever. . .

So. . . I'm not offended if, for a change, an aspie begins trying to figure out how to do things this way. I wouldn't even if a girl were doing something like this to get in my pants - the only reason it doesn't happen is because they don't have to and that's thanks only to the sexist skew of relationships no less.
After all, going without sex (or love!) your entire life just because women demand such an absurd set of personality traits that most men end up shrugging shoulders and faking them doesn't look like an option. . . I really don't picture him lying and destroying women's feelings every other day and whatnot - he's barely giving this a try. So-called winners do it all the time and no one tells them sh**.

Given this, insulting him and "quoting him for truth" is a childish outburst at best. . .


Very true, though there are a lot of women who are very chill and unassuming they're incredibly hard to come by (at least out where I am).

What I hate about this whole entire game is this - it goes completely opposite of the skills that a person needs to have a quality relationship and really make it successful. When that much immaturity is condoned off the top its a hell of a challenge to start with deception (even mild and playful) and then turn it into real trust, mature emotional expectations of each other, etc. I don't know if its a test to see if a guy's social skills are intricate enough to be able to switch between the two with ease but in that case it pretty much keeps the majority of guys eliminated (who really have to bend their own perceptions to play those kinds of games to begin with) and when women date players they're really crushing their own hopes for long-term happiness and also taking a pretty good risk for HPV and things like that.

Then again of course neither sex fully to blame - the dating scene in general seems to condone lack of self-knowledge and Marquis De Sade ethics. Players seem to get endorsed from both sides - the fact that our natural tendency as human animals are to desire the most attractive people to get around a lot means both sides wanting a bit of infidelity at the top and as people try to be successful they're somewhat expected to take on the bad habits of the more attractive. Its sick s--- but as we all know its like so many other things in our world, following bad habits seems a bit like Stockholm Syndrome - as in your forced to see these behaviors as the only means of success unless your really that lucky to find a part of yourself that you can really utilize and have something both successful and different (of course digging through the BS and analyzing to that level can take people well into their 30's sometimes I'd imagine - sad it has to go down like that even).



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30 Mar 2008, 3:30 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
What I hate about this whole entire game is this - it goes completely opposite of the skills that a person needs to have a quality relationship and really make it successful.
[...]Then again of course neither sex fully to blame - the dating scene in general seems to condone lack of self-knowledge and Marquis De Sade ethics.


That's the core of my view - and chagrin, basically. . . :(



NeantHumain
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30 Mar 2008, 3:46 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
In my opinion, your cynicism is caused by constant frustration you encounter. The comments you posted are valid to an extend, but they definitely don't sound good, and won't get you much respect either. If you're that focused on getting sex, see an escort. Yes, I said it. It sounds like you need to get sex out of your system ASAP. So an escort service is a very direct way to get rid of your frustration. There's a reason why the world's oldest profession has been around for as long as it was. Once you get your sexual needs taken care of, you might be able to focus more on the human side of relationships. (Laws may vary where you live, so proceed with caution.)

A one-off sexual encounter isn't going to do me any good when I'll be just as horny again the next day but quit a few dollars poorer. What I'm looking for is a girlfriend who, among other things, enjoys sex and isn't going to make it too hard to get.