Eye contact

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Please read the whole thing before replying, don't just read the last sentence.

I go to a gothic industrial dance club and I'm rather confused. You see, there have been three cases in which I've seen a woman making lots of eye contact with me (perhaps even sending shy-looking half-smiles), but then acting completely disinterested the second I say anything. It's rather irritating.

I think what happens is this: I'm looking around, a woman looks in my direction just at the wrong moment and thinks I'm looking at her, not realizing that when I look away, it's because I'm just looking at all the people in the whole room and she just was a part of the sweep. Except then she wonders if I'm staring at her, so she looks back at me to see if I look at her, and then I see her looking at me and think she's staring at me, so I look at her MORE and she sees me looking at her more and thinks, "He IS staring at me!" and then has to keep checking every two seconds out of creeped out compulsion, and I interpret this as, "She's trying to make eye contact with me. Maybe she wants me to go over and talk to her because most girls never approach guys. Damn those gender roles! Why doesn't she come to me? Oh well, fine, I'll go over." So I try to talk to her somehow and, well, that doesn't go well at all. >.>

Now, I'm not someone who can't tell the difference between a flirty look and a creeped out look. If someone looks creeped out by me, I notice. But if someone's staring at me and they don't look the least bit creeped out, then I can assume they're interested in some way, am I right?

So how can I know if a woman's staring is intended as "come talk to me because I'm shy" or if it's intended as "stop staring at me you creep"?

Yeah eye contact is very confusing for me as well sometimes. I can related with you on the subject as well.

Are you sure that she is not interested. Maybe she is also shy and that makes her appear more standoffish ? It could also be that she thinks it is "cool" to act indifferent...I have seen that a lot hanging out with alternative crowds (we were deathrockers and punks back in the day ). It seemed like being "mean/abrupt" was seen as being "hipper then thou " and not "desperate"...pretty silly game but I think a lot of people do it. As far as looking at someone who was looking at me....I only did IF I was interested...that's the dance...if they don't want to dance, all they have to do is not look back at you, even if you are staring. (If that make sense ?)

Well, hope you don't mind a blunt response.

The first half your good - if a girl does that - ie keeps looking back at you, almost out of compulsion, she may be telling herself anything about it, but part of that is the fact that you've gotta be at least somewhat pleasant on her eyes and most likely are projecting something that's grabbed her interest. In other words yes, your instincts are right on this - its about all she'll likely do as far as initiation though, the rest of the work is yours.

On the other hand, when you talk to them and it doesn't work - here's what it is. When you talk to women, when they talk to you, anything you do, every movement you make, conformity = success = conformity. Remember, in the physical sense of the world, this is the eugenics dance, and in this regard we kind of are living on planet Auschwitz. Its why they most basic-minded common denominator human being is a vastly superior person to the thinker or the more reserved person on this plane. Its all animallistic. People may have luck but its literally just that, the rest is how much luck they have with themselves in terms of whether or not they just magically have the right equation of looking the right way, having the right personality for the person they visually look like, its a lot of things that seem like they'd mean absolutely nothing but the physical/genetic world is completely irreverent.

Not saying at all that your worth less as a person than anyone else in the club, just that I really think if you do find someone you'll probably date and marry - just because to even get in the door it'll require that kind of connection; so it'll probably bring you in either the best kind of relationship possible as well as keep you out of a place where you don't end up with someone self-absorbed, narcissistic, and two-faced just because you had something that worked for her as a status pin.

I've had men think I was interested in them while I was shopping and very distracted. Once I had to stop at a grocery store while enroute to work. I wasn't familiar with the store, and had to pass this one aisle, where an employee was working, four times. Each time I passed and peered down the aisle, he made eye contact. When I completed my shopping, I was going to my car when somebody called me. This guy had followed me out of the store to ask for a date!
I realized that he must have thought I was looking at him each time I walked by. It can be very confusing!

Be bold my friend, thats how its done. As soon as you think "how do I make a good impression," too late. Women like confidence. If you want the girl who is looking (IS interested) to remain interested, don't fall apart by not knowing how to react.

This sounds stupid, but practice in the mirror: facial expressions, body language (hips, chest, shoulders, upper arms, lower arms, stance, hand movements, etc.), expression timing. [side note: it really sucks that we can't practice with each other online] I notice the difference in reactions when I practice even for just 5 minutes (of course 'happy' is the only expression I practice). Both my wife and my therapist have told me how well this tactic works.

Also, don't overlook the ability that most people most often neglect, peripheral vision.

p.s. trust your instincts, they are often right.

If I'm interested in someone I've noticed I do look a lot at them. I think most women do that. I do a lot of looking for a few seconds and then glancing off. I use to think if a guy wouldn't look at me he didn't like me at all. That was before I understood anything about Aspergers and now I realize that eye contact just comes hard for some people. The guy I like (he has Aspergers) doesn't do well with direct eye contact, but I've noticed him watching me out of the corner of my eye when we are hanging out. You know the feeling when you feel like someone is watching you and you look around and make brief eye contact with someone? That happens a lot. I'm sure that they are a few women out there that just flirt and have no intention of taking it any further. That could be the type you are talking about.

Social interaction is not a set of rules you have to play by to be ok. Your glancing round the room, you catch her eye, she doesn't really catch yours, so move past her smiling face, smile back perhaps briefly, and keep glancing elsewhere - she doesn't exist! She won't care! She'll get the idea and try catch someone esle's eye. You keep browsing. If you see her again you give a big smile and even a nod or wink, and immediately move your head or talk to someone (clearly about something non-related) and she will get the picture.

No Pressure.

If you walk over to introsuce yourself she will think either
a) You were trying to catch her eye and you have a plan
b) You noticed her sexy look and want a piece of her ass!! !! !

If either of those are not true, no not make a move because what on earth are you going to say to her? Most people will notice/decide/move on or move in. Only move in if you were planning to - if you feel driven to sexually/socially. Otherwise there is NO EXPECTATION for you to do so. Stay where you are - enjoy your drinks and conversations and if your ASP you probably should avoid trying to make such full on decisions in a club environment. Unless you have a personal rule or something if you actually do meet someone you dig.

If you meet someone in a crazy place - remember you are a pretty unique snowflake - anyone around long enough will be lucky enough to figure that out and it will be their delight. So at the beginning it is your responsibilty to make an opening as smoothe as possible. have fun and be silly and whatever, but you know where your 'things' are and the triggers. Figure them out and work out a way of getting through meeting someone lovely and knowing when its time to wrap up and agree to meet again. Too much too soon can go wrong (in any case really...!) - BUT because of the charm and fascinating edge to those on the asp scale - the rest of the world should be eased into it. Otherwise they miss out, and ultimately so would you!

Quoted for truth, it took me long enough but i'm finally starting to realize how true this is. When I think back on all the missed opportunities that I had.

Eye contact can be hard to do or judge sometimes, but a friend of mine once told me something I try to keep in mind and it helped me not to shy away from eye contact. "If a girl looks into your eyes for more than a second or two, she's showing some kind of interest. It could be good interest, it could be bad interest. Either way, it's interest and that's never a bad thing."

It does make sense (these are gothic women I'm talking about here), but there's "I'm being cold" and then there's obvious disinterest. The thing is, they DO look back. And therin lies the confusion.

3 cases. In neither case did I stare at them in the first place. One of them said quite clearly that she didn't want to talk to me. Another ignored me. A third, the one who I swore smiled at me, told me her name and walked away, joining a large circle of people in a hasty sort of way that implied she just...didn't want to talk to me.



Firstly, my instincts were what led me to incorrectly assume that they were making eye contact with me, so....

Secondly, I know very well how to control my nonverbal language. That's never been a big deal for me...not saying it's not good advice, it's just not relevent to my particular case.

Thirdly, there's being bold and there's being rude. I'm not going to interrupt someone while they're dancing, nor will I interrupt them when they're talking to friends.



Yeah, it's very possible. Ticks me off though.



This is why I hate approaching people, because that's not how I want to come off, but gender roles mean that girls NEVER approach guys, even in goth clubs! Do you really think that a girl will come over and talk to me if I smile at her? Yeah, right. Girls sit there and wait for the guy to come over to them, and no matter how much I HATE that it's hard to expect anything different, save on the internet.

I've never been able to aproach a girl, and often when I scan the room a girl looks back and I think does that mean they are interested. though one time in highschool I had one of those, I looked at her, she saw me, I being interested in the way she was acting looked at her a few more times. I could then hear that she was talking to her friends thinking that I was interested, and thats how I learned if they look back I strugle with myself to not look back.

I say this much: Uhm there are no rules to NT dating.

Sometimes, A cute shy smile is just that, sometimes it just means they want to know the YOU find them desirable. Sometimes, it means, "come over and talk" sometimes it means "ah you think I'm cute thats all I wanted to know." I think being (AS myself) the best way to meet people to date is through friends/ aquaintences. The other thing is to get out there and get involved with whatever you are interested in. Art science, books, animals, games whatever. You'll meet people that have similar interests & that will give you a basis to start a conversation.

Cold hits are always hard, especially in bars

I tried to figure this out myself for years. To no avail. There is no simple equation. You do this, I'll do that, kind of thing. To top all that off the NT's keep changing the rules... The rules change in & between groups of people, different cities.... on and on it goes.

Personally I find interacting with people exhausting. The verbal cues don't match the facial expressions & neither matches the body language..............ssssshhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeshhhhh no wonder I am confused .