What do I have to do? Why is trying to date so damn hard?

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Deep down, I already know the answer.

Why does it always seem like any decent looking girls you ever meet are already "with someone?" I think the cruelest words in the English language have to be, "Sorry, I already have a boyfriend, but thanks anyway," or something along those lines. The serviceable girls are ALWAYS already in relationships(or perhaps are just feigning lack of interest.) And any attractive girl you see out in public already is hanging off the arms of a guy 100x hotter than you are and you just feel so helpless. Either that, or the girl will be with some sniveling, adenoidal, oddly dressed little punk who is a pathetic excuse for a man. Tonight is/was Friday night, but I just didn't have the heart to drag myself back to the bar in the vain hope of finding an unattached girl. I always feel like such a pervert anyway instead of a guy looking for a legitimate relationship. Perhaps if I had a group of friends to surround myself with, I wouldn't give off a stench of solitude and desperation. Heck, perhaps some friends could really facilitate my efforts and just set me up with someone.

So all of the attractive girls out there are apparently "taken." Everyone is always taken; doors are always being slammed in your face. And if you do happen to stumble in to a flirting situation that does have the possibility of leading somewhere, then it becomes the most awkward and difficult task imaginable to try and present yourself over an evening of having what it takes to be legitimate boyfriend material. With the complicated ritual of flirting, I know that normal people like the challenge of having to work for it instead of just having a relationship and sex handed to them. A heruistic says that we as people appreciate the things even more that we have to strive for over things that just fall into our lap and we take for granted. If all normal people had to do was just simply walk up to a girl and ask for sex, all of the challenge and excitement would be taken out of it for them. It is thus not possible just to say crudely, "Hey, you wanna do it?"(but this way would be much more efficient and preferable for me.) Girls have to challenge guys to see if they can meet the standard.

For myself, since I am handicapped severly by my AS, trying to carry out the flirting game and gingerly trying to say and do all the right things with the right tone and facial expressions are just virtually impossible. I feel like I am trying to put together a jigsaw puzzle without any hands. I know in paper what all of the "right moves" are but applying them is just such a different animal, mostly because my mental capabilities are compromised and dulled in stressful social situations and unrehearsed conversations. A main problem for me is that no matter what I do, I can not get the correct facial expression or gaze with my eyes, and thus I invariably come off as some sort of psychopath. I can't learn the correct way to speak or look, try as I might. I wonder how many actual signs and invitations to flirting I have missed in my life because my brain did not register them and thus how many real opportunities I have lost. It saddens me to think of it.

Despite my handicaps and the extreme social constraints of our over-ritualized society, it is completely unacceptable that I should be nearly 24 and have never had a girlfriend. It is not like I don't try and get out there and stay inside my house all day. I'm decently looking and I have alot to offer, but I can't really convey my positives in an actual conversation. I don't "know people" who can open doors for me to set my up for relationships. My social circle consists of less than 10 people, none of who know any available single girls. All attempts to do anything on the internet come to naught. Regardless of the fact that I have AS, it just feels like God's cruel joke on me that I have never dated. God did give me many great gifts, privileges, and talents, but the gaping hole of my dating life is just taunting me and stabbing me over and over again to the point were I can't take it and I just want to explode. Sometimes I just punch walls, scream, and throw my hands up in frustration yelling, "WHY!! !" The part of my brain that regulates social topics was just not given to me and other lobes quickly filled in the lacuna.

If I go somewhere in an attempt to be social, like a bar, college class, or a baseball game, all I ever see are just other guys or already attached girls. Where the heck are any single girls? Why is it such a damn crusade for the Holy Grail?

That is my life with AS; always being denied opportunities, with the choicest meats always being taken by your more suave peers and you being stuck with the leftovers or nothing. Constantly, I feel like "Milton" in Office Space when he is left without any cake at the birthday party. That is just how it goes for me; the normal people always get the jobs, the luck, the slots, respect, and the girls. I am always destined just to drift from one bad situation to another in a perpetual state of wanting. I know that Casanova said, "Misery is never attractive, you have to make yourself worth loving." I am beginning to feel that it will never happen for me. I still believe that anyone can accomplish anything with the proper motivation(the mother who lifts a bus to save her baby.) Yet, the whole dating game just seems beyond my capacity to ever comprehend or apply. The old term, "glass ceiling" comes to mind; a mutual, systematic social program to deny me my basic needs as a man. It is not the fault of any individual or clique, but rather the common, learned mindset of the whole that disfavors individuals on the fringe. Women instantly reject you in their minds if they pick up even the slightest hint of weirdness on a man.

I don't know how many others out there feel like their whole life is one giant rejection. I really did try as hard as I could growing up, trying to do right and be normal and functional. However, it is like a gnat trying to take on an elephant. I spent so much wasted time trying to make friends or find dates, but only doing all the wrong things and just embarassing myself. Perhaps I just will be happier as a physically old man when my libido fades and I don't think about sex anymore. At this point though, I really don't know what else to try to build a dating life. Deep down, I know I am failing because I haven't properly adapted to and overcome my AS handicap. I just haven't been able to build a compensatory personality. Girls look for that fun, vibrant guy; they don't want sulkers. Whatever they want, I ain't got.

I must have a huge tattoo on my forehead that says, "Don't Date Me." Women just pick up on this regardless of my best efforts and view me as only friend material at best. My problem is that to meet me in person, I am just not capable of commanding any respect at all. Even after I bulked up with weights, people still sense and feel like they can just walk all over me, and they can take advantage of me if they push the right buttons. I am always guarded against these things, but that shell then translates badly to my social life and I can't let down my guard at the right moments. My whole life, people, even my parents, just used me like a toy for their own personal pleasure or purposes, and I just felt like an object to be manipulated for the vicarious whims of others. I spent the first 22 years of my life as a punching bag, and this just developed a huge feeling of inferiority and sociopathy. I was trapped in a purgatory between boy and animal. How confident can a beaten and starving dog really be? Today, I can not assert my legitimacy and really carve out a niche for myself in this world. No one will just give me a chance.

As a little boy, as early as 5, I knew that I was different from everyone else. When I was 16 I began to fear that I would never date. Yet, I was sure by the time I was 20 that I would have a girlfriend. If I had known when I was 17 that seven years later I still would be stuck and single, I probably would have killed myself out of frustration. The things we want most in life, we can never attain. Things that come easily to us we can never properly appreciate. Playboys who have a different girl every night can not properly enjoy the privilege and gratification of all the intercourse that they get. Only when something is taken away can you really gain that perspective. I know that I would appreciate a girlfriend who would date me tenfold over the regular guy who can enter a relationship with only a modicum of effort. Deep down, I know that the girl who finally dates me will be extremely lucky, because she will have someone utterly devoted to her, since I would not take the relationship for granted. The starving man will finally get a meal. Finally having something that I have been without but have wanted so desperately will make me cherish it more than a normal man could ever hope to comprehend or experience.

I am reminded of a poignant quote from the movie Men of Honor.

"Why do you want this so badly?"(To become a Navy master diver.)

"Because they told me that I couldn't have it."

You need to lower your standards. Is it always the attractive girls you go after?

No, I have a very open mind when it comes to dating. I am open to dating homely girls, although I do tend to pursue the more attractive girls. My standard, on the (1-10) scale, probably starts at a 6. I do not think I am setting my sights too high. My standards are fine. It is better to want something that you don't have than have something that you don't really want. I really don't want to settle for anything, although I do understand that it is pointless for me to pursue supermodels and such girls.

I notice that the more attractive the girl, the more demanding and high-maintenance she seems to be. I try plenty to interact with all sorts of girls, mostly typical girls, but they still all seem to be already committed or just disinterested. I don't know where any AS girls are but I would be open to that avenue too.

This is part of your problem. You are defining happiness in terms of having a girlfriend, and ignoring the many other things in your life that are worthwhile. Chicks will pick up on this general frustration, so you need to get rid of it. Stop defining happiness in life in terms of having a hot chick. Enjoy what you do have. Relax a bit, and take your mind off of women.

I think this is much of why guys with girlfriends get hit on more often than guys without -- they aren't worried about getting themselves a girl. Another thing to stop worrying about -- 24 is not that old. You have plenty of time.


Don't refer to women as meat. Don't even think that way. Chicks hate that more than almost anything.

stop trying to date

start befriending girls but keep giving the compliments and male attention - pull the chair for her, pour her a drink, tell her she looks great, tell her you like her bag, etc. if she does not laugh at the compliment but just stares at you or looks distant in reply, then don't push it and cut your compliments.

I kind of accidentally corrolated women and meat... sorry. I actually meant "meat" as just the general perks of life.

well, there is nothing wrong with wanting some physical contact with the sex of your sexual orientation and to be attracted to people physically. i don't think that brusilov called women meat, i think he meant it as a in "meat and potatoes" or "bring home the bacon" or "where is the beef".

honestly, though, brusilov, you are a great guy, you just got to keep meeting women, talking to them politely, and trying to become their friend until you find a girl that's right to be your gf.

Some notes, but you can see a lot more of my POV in other posts on this forum on the topic, including in the "Nice Guys" sticky thread (do a search):

1. Practice makes perfect. Keep working the social skills, and don't take it so seriously. Overthinking and performance anxiety can f you up big time. Life is a game, treat it as such.

2. Pretty much all women worth being with will always have a BF. This is just life. When they break up with one, they have one or more serious candidates waiting in the wings, in their mental list of guys they know and are friends with. Get on that list for multiple women, be a good friend, be nice (but don't be someone who is used or taken advantage of, draw the line and use your time wisely), and when they break up with that BF, you're next.

3. In conjunction with #2, women pretty much lose most of their bargaining power after age 30, when the bio clock starts ticking and they want to get married and have kids. Their standards and choosiness drops accordingly, because really, at age 30, a woman pretty much only has a 10 year window, MAX, to get married and pump out kids, if she hasn't already.

4. You, meanwhile, should be aging, getting more experience, accumulating assets and riches, and progressing in your career. At 30 and above, you have all women 18 and over to choose from. A lot of great younger girls like older guys -- some of my best female friendships have been with women in their early to mid 20s (I'm in my early 30s).

5. Cheer the f up. They can totally feel the negative vibe. Yes, get some friends to hang out with, or find a hobby, or both. Yes, get the tension out of your shoulders and the defeat out of your face. Be happy, women like a happy guy. They can smell him, and seek him out. They can smell negativity, and avoid it.

Though I also find flirting to be incredibly difficult, and agree that those with AS may be at a disadvantage, I don't think it's just the thrill of the chase that makes people prefer "flirting" and courting. I imagine a lot of NTs (especially men) would love it to be as simple as just asking for sex and getting it.

From a male perspective I see courtship as entirely a compromise between asking for sex (which, of an unassuming stranger, is threatening and constitutes harassment) and doing nothing (which, since the man is expected to initiate, would usually mean remaining single).

It's "hard" because you have to convince the other person that you're "dating material" at the very LEAST, and possibly "the love of their life." The slightest imperfection will get you rejected. Everyone has imperfections, but as Aspies, ours are more obvious.

Somebody's obsessed.

There's more to life than women, and the sooner you realise that, the better.

Still, if you really are so hell bent on finding "love," I'd suggest lowering your standards to 0 on a 1-10 scale in all respects. The sooner you're willing to settle for less, the sooner you'll find someone. You may not like them, but that doesn't seem to be the point here. You'll have a physical representation of the fact that there is at least one person on this planet who feels anything more than indifference towards you, and that seems to be the objective. Give in, adhere to their rituals, bend over backwards, do whatever necessary in order to fit in, and maybe you'll be more appealing to people in general. If you do feel such a desire to appear normal in order to appease others, then I pity you. "Love," or the pointless approximation that many confuse it with, are indeed part of those rituals that you dislike.

Love is severely overrated anyway. Your life will -NOT- instantly become satisfactory if you get a girlfriend. It will not make all of your problems go away, you will not live happily ever after, and they'll probably dump you within a couple of months anyway, especially if your whiny, self-important attitude online transfers into reality. I understand that you may not fully "get" love (neither do I,) and I suppose that that which we do not comprehend enthralls us most, but then invariably turns out to be less than you expected.

I understand that you have AS, and that impairs you socially. If you really are so insistent on dating, then you need to learn that "I'm weird, pity me." does not fly in the NT mindset. They don't care. Weird, socially useless sad people are not who most people want as partners, whether they have a diagnosis for it or not. Either change, or find something else to do.

Also, just to clarify, if you're just trying to find sex, then stop. Now. Love does not equal sex. It isn't even a by-product of love. It is something entirely different.

Finally, please stop being so damn pretentious and dramatic. If this helps you achieve your goal (love should not be a goal in the first place,) great, but it's mostly because your walls of secondary-school-level poetic, self-important text offend me.

I can relate with the OP. Except that I'm 29.

And I'm not sure lowering standards would help - I doubt very many guys, Aspie or not, would want to have a girl who's, for example, extremely rude and/or a smoker as a girlfriend... I mean, on one hand, beggars might not be able to be choosers, but on the other, they shouldn't have to put up with somebody who's just going to make them downright miserable, either...

Tim (aka the Slipperman)

I meant lowering your standards in terms of looks. I am not saying go date rude people. If the type of girls you seem to be going after arent interested then perhaps you need to be honest with yourselves and realize maybe you are not that good looking. Sure it hurts but ugly people need love too right? What happened to loving someone for their personality? I surmise that is a myth?


& thoms, will you marry me?:D kthnxbi.

I would think the opposite... if she's laughing at you, what's the point? She obviously thinks you're a joke...

Laughter can mean a lot of things, but it's usually not a bad sign.

Am I the only one who doesn't like it when people say 'lower your standards'? There's more to loving someone than 'lowering your standards' for them.

Then again, love itself might just be a Sadist's Game where everyone bullies up on the less attractive who try to find a solution to the problem but end up being tortured and reinforced into foolish behavior.

*sigh* What are we gonna do.