Why Aspies and Neurotypicals do the things they do

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I remember coming back to my town after some days at poker and attending a new group on immigration reform with some fellow liberal activists with whom I was acquainted. I could follow the ebb and flow of emotion in the room, and it was amazing!

There were about twelve people at the meeting, not so different from nine players at a casino poker table.

And I was an experienced enough activist to know that it's not about the one-dimensional thing of me giving out great ideas and then basking in approval. It's more about building people up. It's more about encouraging people as long as they're moving forward in a generally positive direction. The occasional ping-ponging back and forth. And in general, just being open to appreciating people (which sometimes happens, sometimes doesn't, and either way is fine).

And another valuable thing is to just kind of be on standby in case two or three people team up and criticize a person for having a different idea. You might think this wouldn't happen in a humanistic group, but probably just as much oneupsmanship as any other group. And as long as you're not the person being criticized, it's very easy to say, hey, I kind of see where he's coming from, and yeah, I kind of see that it is a valid point.

So, I was able to follow the meeting (including the emotional dimension), and my poker skills transferred.

And the all-time classic example is sports, right? And if a person calls it ‘subconscious’ or gut instincts or reflexes or whatever, it’s kind of the same thing.

It was fascinating... Am dazed... Thanks, Salonfilosoof!

Yeah, I think you mean what they call being 'in the zone'. It feels like magic to me.

It is probably the main element of the miscommunication problem. I came to realise how important this problem was after analysing my last two relationships. Both of my last two exes sometimes had strong emotions they couldn't explain, leaving me hanging there not knowing or understanding what was going on. It is, however, only recently that I understood exactly how the process works.



Correct.



In my experience, the ideal combination is to learn things consciously and to use your learnt skills subconsciously... however that may just be my prejudice from being born with AS.



Interesting.



Basically, being an Aspie means that you have to think consciously about EVERYTHING you do, from tying your shoes and driving a car to casual conversation and even (to a degree) body posture. As a consequence, there is a lack of instinctive processing which leads to incredible amounts of brain power being needed for simple tasks, a lack of understanding of other people's behavior, poor organisation skills, etc. If you recognise yourself in that description, you're probably an Aspie.



Wow. This seems very similar to my own experience, only I would not have been able to do this without taking any substance. Do you have ANY idea what could possibly have triggered that effect? Were you analysing your own thoughts at the time? Were you doing or thinking about anything out of the ordinary?



Would you say you're now using your conscious most of the time or your subconscious most of the time? Which of those two would you consider your primary process?



Ritalin never worked for me, probably because the dosage was too small... but yeah, it seems like you've discovered what's probably the healthiest and most natural way to get rid of your symptoms. I just find it hard to fanthom that meditation alone could have such a significant effect, however most of you probably think the same about my Methylone experience.



Well, it's all a matter of focus. If you use drugs for entertainment, it probably won't have any effect at all. However, some drugs can be used to gain a lot of insight and do a lot of introspection much in the same way meditation does if you just have the right mindset.



It's one of the most interesting posts I've read on this forum so far, so don't worry. I should take a look at your links soon. I find them utterly fascinating



The subconscious = instinct = intuition. It means that you think or behave in a certain way without first rationally contemplating it.



It's just a list of things I learnt during the past year and especially the past week (since my mental transformation). It's a combination of personal experience and research in scientific literature.



I doubt it's an official term. When I say "dopamine bomb" I'm referring to a substance that generates a very large amount of dopamine all at once. This, in contrast with substances that only increase your dopamine levels marginally.



It was a shamanic experiment. I used to try several drugs (mostly psychedelics and empathogenic drugs) to increase my understanding of my own psyche and the world around me. Methylone is the drug in question I'm referring to. Click the link in the OP for more information.



Please share with us what feels wrong and why you think it does? Maybe we can help you understand those bits that done make any sense to you right now. That was the whole point of this thread after all.



I never even felt this before I took the Methylone. Now this is quite a normal (and very pleasant) experience. Do you frequently feel this "eb and flow" you mention?

Another example for me might be sitting in a theater with a movie beginning which I have really looked forward to. I can follow every tone and timber of the plot, and it happens so easily and automatically.

Now sometimes with a movie, any movie, but I think esp those which turn out unexpectedly good, I'm walking out of the theater two hours later and I can't believe the time has just flown by.

With social events, it's more like I have to ramp up my energy, and 45 minutes is about a good average for how long I can comfortable maintain this energy. I'm experimenting with different ways of letting it decay graciously.

maybe this explains why really depressed people are often socially awkward and devote their time to art, music, etc and stay inside. the lack of dopamine.
but how exactly are NT's guided by their subconscious? that part i don't quite understand. does this mean they don't really think about what they do?
and what was this dopamine bomb?
ive noticed i am 'neurotypical' on rare occasions when i'm very drunk or doing a mind altering drug. i start to reciprocate and have true empathy in conversations. i get a glimpse of what NT's experience constantly and sometimes i want to cry. it really is a beautiful thing to empathize. but i can't cry over it because i never cry. i don't even know what real emotions feel like. sigh.

I think you are correct here.



Pretty much.



It's called Methylone. I linked to thread on my experience in the OP. I'd rather not go into this in this thread because the legallity of the substance is questionable and the discussion of such substances is only allowed in the "adult section" of this forum.



What kind of drugs are you talking about?



Real emotions aren't that different from the ones you experience while using mind altering drugs.

This is all very interesting, and for all I know, dopamine levels may very well be the gap between aspies and NTs, although I'd need to see more sources backing this up; what I have a hard time swallowing is that taking one dose of methylone permanently rewired your brain. That just doesn't line up with what I know about recreational drugs and pharmaceuticals. Either you get a temporary high and then crash, or you take it over an extended period of time before you see results. I've never heard of a drug that fixes everything all in one go, and you're good as new.

Well, repetitive use of MDMA could lead to a permanent alteration of your brain wiring. I had already taken a substance similar to MDMA (4-Fluoroamphetamine ) two or three times in the past and I also have some experience with psychedelics. It is possible that those drugs laid the foundation of a process that was finished by the Methylone. It's also possible that a brain of someone with Asperger's is more sensitive to this type of drug as empathogenics only enhance capabilities naturally present among Neurotypical people but create totally new abilities among people with Asperger's Syndrome.

I believe that enough thought of the right kind, done often enough, is enough to 'rewire' the brain. Permanently? I don't know. I doubt I still have the same brain I had when I was 13 or even 27. If you think about trauma, what's that? Some kind of 'explosion' in the brain that rewires attitude to the world and behaviour within it. I can imagine that a drug experience, or an intense and sustained campaign of behavioural/thought modification can do something similar.

I'm no neuroscientist. Just a layperson throwing some ideas around.

I just realised that I neglected to address your points Sal. Apologies.

That sounds about right to me.



That sounds right. It's funny you mention shoe laces. I just remembered that I couldn't tie my laces until I was about ten years old. My school mates used to tie them for me. It used to exasperate them.




The major life changing process has been the meditation. I've racked my brains for anything else, and I can't find it. Seriously, it's very powerful when done correctly and diligently.



My primary function is still logical 'linear' thinking. It's a matter of habit. I find I can slip between the two styles as seems fit for the situation. Subconscious style is more attractive for general living, as it takes less effort. I think this is one of the reasons why I have more energy. I simply let things come and go, slipping in and through me, instead of trying to grasp every tiny fragment of data and doing something with it.



I believe that we have simply found two different routes to the same, or similar things.



I agree!



Thank you!

It took me some time as well before I was somewhat proficient in tying my shoe laces and to this day I prefer shoes you do not have to untie or shoes that do not have any laces at all. The examples I used came from me own experience



You should try to eventually find a way to let your subconscious take over your primary function like what happened to me. I don't know if this is possible through meditation alone but it would definitely be an interesting experiment.

And yes, your energy levels are directly related to the amount of time you spend on what you call "linear" thinking (I prefer to call it rational or logical processes). Since my "awakening" (or however you want to call it) last week my energy levels have consistently been higher.



Probably... Although if you really want to get to the same point, you'll have to figure a way to let your subconscious take over from your consciousness as the primary process. Maybe you could address this to some Buddhist monks or some Hindu Yoga gurus.



You're welcome. I find it really interesting to compare your experiences with mine and I'm sure many other people will benefit from reading our conversation as well.

That's my goal. I think it is a matter of practice, reinforcement. When I find myself slipping into the old habit when it's not desired, I must consciously guide myself back into subconscious style.

One hand washes the other!



I think it is just a matter of time and practice. It would be good to consult with other practitioners. The Internet is awash with good information, it's just finding the relevant bits.



I'm grateful that you have shared your experience and allowed me to explore my own in more depth and detail. I hope that others can derive some benefit too.

All I can say is that is requires something like a switch in your brain to be turned on (much like a light switch) to make your subconscious primary. Unfortunately I cannot tell you where or how to find that switch since I found it by accident and under influence



That was definitely the point of this thread.

I cannot remedy the problem by meditating. It is IMPOSSIBLE. Clear the mind of all conscious thought? Then along comes the default WINAMP/Windows Media player that's been installed in my head since like ever, that starts playing random things.