Do you think the way NTs socialize is beautiful?
An interesting question.
I suppose that from an objective standpoint, NT human social interaction is as much a miracle of evolution as the colonial behaviour of ants and bees, or the dominance heirarchies of pack animals. It's also as tied to human survival as those behaviours are to their various species. Human conversation is a complex, interwoven, reciprocal exchange of both rational ideas and irrational instincts. Overt communication (speech, gestures) convey concrete details, in the exact same space and time as subliminal signals (subtle stuff like eye contact) transmit a wealth of emotional information that words alone cannot. To an impartial observer, this marriage of logic and instinct that allows two or more minds to bond on a level unseen elsewhere in nature could surely be called beautiful.
The irony is that there are no impartial observers. Anyone able to participate in that kind of interaction has no objective comparison. If you're neurotypical, the sheer amount of information conveyed subliminally during conversation is just par for the course. The complexities of conversation seem trivial, just as walking and staying balanced upright seems trivial to humans (until you try to design a bipedal robot, and have to account for the zillion factors involved).
On the other hand, if you're on the autism spectrum, you're much more likely to see how layers of thought, emotion, and instinct form a communicative tapestry that most take for granted. You might even understand the mechanics of interaction in ways most NTs couldn't even fathom. The cost, of course, is that you can never truly be a part of it. This would be fine if you truly were an impartial observer - but damn! You're surrounded by these people.
No, if anything its annoying yet amusing at the same time like observing a troop of chimpanzees at the zoo!
_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList
As an NT, I'm happy to read that - very well explained, Steinhauser. It bothers me sometimes that 'Aspies' consider small talk as meaningless, but in these at first sight mundane conversations there's a lot of information exchange that allows people to learn about how the other thinks, reacts, feels, what he or she likes and so on. In that way you get to know someone and that is necessary to build the trust you need to establish a friendship or whatever kind of relationship. So we're not alwaysso superficial as it might appear to an Aspie mind.
It's... interesting. My opinion of NT socialization is like the opinion someone might hold of Stone Age culture or interaction between orangutans; something to study and learn about, maybe attempt to imitate sometime with the risk of acquiring bad habits, often fascinating in a way, but still disgusting. I honestly think I'm reasonably well-adjusted for an aspie, and I despise that about myself sometimes.
Like I look at myself more sincerely and have no idea why I'm teasing someone just because they're that person in the group, or I'm not saying the uncomfortable but necessary thing that the NTs are too socially prudent to say, or I'm doing stupid things like being passive-aggressive or implying and hinting at stuff instead of just saying it or shutting the heck up, or making mean faces at somebody instead of confronting them.
In retrospect, I'd rather stick to being socially inept instead of adapting to social mores that I find so repulsive, but it's hard to ditch the habits now.
Like I look at myself more sincerely and have no idea why I'm teasing someone just because they're that person in the group, or I'm not saying the uncomfortable but necessary thing that the NTs are too socially prudent to say, or I'm doing stupid things like being passive-aggressive or implying and hinting at stuff instead of just saying it or shutting the heck up, or making mean faces at somebody instead of confronting them.
In retrospect, I'd rather stick to being socially inept instead of adapting to social mores that I find so repulsive, but it's hard to ditch the habits now.
I think you can deprogram those habits if you try... I've never really acquired those skills to the extent that I could comfortably use them, but there was a time when I tried to be a bit more open to other people and more active on the plain of social interaction. That pretty much came to an end last year, and now I've returned to a state of social reclusiveness for the most part, although the difference with my teenage years is that I now have a better idea of what's 'going on' in social interactions.
Furthermore, I have experienced that not every social circle or group of people will consider those nasty underhanded jabs or manipulations to be 'normal', and I've met many, many non-autistic people who would never consider using them. It's those people and groups that I tend to gravitate to, because I prefer to be where honesty is valued.
_________________
clarity of thought before rashness of action
No, it is boring, full of ignorance and overly focused on gossip (most of which is inaccurate) and going to the pub to get pissed whilst trying to score social points for what they go up to whilst they were there.
They think drinking makes them clever...I say it kills off their few precious brain cells.
I suppose that from an objective standpoint, NT human social interaction is as much a miracle of evolution as the colonial behaviour of ants and bees, or the dominance heirarchies of pack animals. It's also as tied to human survival as those behaviours are to their various species. Human conversation is a complex, interwoven, reciprocal exchange of both rational ideas and irrational instincts. Overt communication (speech, gestures) convey concrete details, in the exact same space and time as subliminal signals (subtle stuff like eye contact) transmit a wealth of emotional information that words alone cannot. To an impartial observer, this marriage of logic and instinct that allows two or more minds to bond on a level unseen elsewhere in nature could surely be called beautiful.
The irony is that there are no impartial observers. Anyone able to participate in that kind of interaction has no objective comparison. If you're neurotypical, the sheer amount of information conveyed subliminally during conversation is just par for the course. The complexities of conversation seem trivial, just as walking and staying balanced upright seems trivial to humans (until you try to design a bipedal robot, and have to account for the zillion factors involved).
On the other hand, if you're on the autism spectrum, you're much more likely to see how layers of thought, emotion, and instinct form a communicative tapestry that most take for granted. You might even understand the mechanics of interaction in ways most NTs couldn't even fathom. The cost, of course, is that you can never truly be a part of it. This would be fine if you truly were an impartial observer - but damn! You're surrounded by these people.
I think this one describes how I feel about it perfectly. I like to imagine that humans are no different than the way we view dogs and other animals we think are 'stupid' the only difference is we have an added ability of awareness and other things. But because I feel this way even though I know humanity is neither beautiful nor ugly, I feel like Brother Cavil and his speech on not wanting to be human, when he says:
When Brother Cavil spoke those words I understood I understood. "Because I have to--I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid limiting language...I'm a machine, and I can know much more." the feeling of being trapped in this absurd body. So that's the way I feel about humanity and their socializing, and my part in it.
It's primitive. It's limited. And however beautiful it may seem when you are getting it right, at the end of the day we're just a bunch of monkeys making wild noises while chittering away. I would not be surprised if an advanced alien species looked down on humanity not as beautiful but in the same way many humans view germs.
Just a bunch of Human Monkeys
This. This is what i feel all the time seeing my friends talk, be liked by others, and handle social situations with ease. Very depressing. This is probably the main reason why I have a large inferiority complex (i always compare myself to NT's and how inferior I am to them in everything...)
_________________
Clinically diagnosed AS. Hates having it.
I'm very paranoid. I have inferiority complex (a.k.a i always think others are better than me, mostly b/c of my AS)
My AS is getting worse as time goes on.
WORST PROBLEM: HAVING AS
I think of their interaction as being very fake and superficial. When they ask you how you are doing, I can see in most people's eyes that they do not care. If they don't care, i'd just assume they not waste my time asking the question. I know that they do not care because it used to be when someone asked me how i was doing, I would tell them the truth and they seemed to get very uncomfortable having a real conversation: they expected me to say i was doing "fine," thus completing required social protocol. I hate being forced into routine social niceties.
The rest of the time i see people "bonding" its over something idiotic like sports. While I like to occassionally engage in sports, I think it is the ultimate waste of time being a spectator watching a bunch of overpaid idiots to stuff with a ball.
I think the way most people act is repulsive. I loathe the fake smiles i see everywhere. People just tell you what they think you want to hear.
Thing is, I see it that most NTs are dying on the inside, but it is an unwritten rule that you can never express just how much you are hurting.
No. I have two distinct reactions to it:
a) annoyance - mostly when I'm overloaded or trying to focus on something else. It's like 'seriously, guys, can't you go five minutes without talking to each other?'
b) curiosity - almost as if I was watching two birds interacting in the wild. I often eavesdrop on people, essentially because I'm studying them.
Bolded.
That gift is something that blows my mind... just like people that can pick up a pencil and draw almost realistic looking pictures with ease.
That being said, the 'gift' is their ability to flow from one topic to another with grace. What is being said and how it is said however is .. alien to me.
Too much BS... too many little lies bundled together to satisfy some sort of unspoken rule of I-said-this-you-say-that which has never made any sense to me.
Conversations generally go from: fluid intro to conversation, inject insincere niceties for 2 minutes, switch to the topic they need to discuss (usually a self-interested request for material or emotional resource/support) ...then bury the topic in layers upon layers of seemingly pointless anecdotes or popular culture references, return to said self-interested request, proceed with negotiating for it (via indirect discussion), finalize the deal and spend the next 10 minutes or so talking about more vapid subjects that follow some sort of unspoken rule of 'winding towards the end of it' and finally, the mostly insincere farewells.
I do admire how they flow the small talk.......... i merely detest the nature of it.