If a conversation takes a direction you don't like ......

Post Reply New Topic

Do you then just walk away?


Because I was reading this article about Paul Allen, one of the world's richest man: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... hadow.html

And one thing caught my eye:
"Allen is apparently so socially gauche that if a conversation takes a direction he doesn't like he just walks away."


- I was wondering if you did that too, and if so if you've been diagnosed? Do you know any "NT people" that do this as well?

What do you mean by "direction you don't Like?"

If people start being gossipy I try and change the direction of the conversation and sometimes it works.

I've never just walked away.

It's not always gauche to walk away. In fact, it's recommended when you're being verbally abused, or find yourself in the company of someone who is: closed-minded, aggressive, persistent.

I'm always suspicious of the person (X, for clarity) who finds Y "gauche" for excusing themselves from discussions. What that usually means is that when X begins a harangue, Y leaves.

If it bothers X that Y does that, surely the proper person for X to tell is Y. I'm "gauche" myself, because I will point that out immediately. (Flying Monkey Recruitment does not work on me, sorry .)

Etiquette mavens recommend that Y call X out once, civilly, before disconnecting; this rarely "gets through" but is worth doing if X is being bigoted or misogynistic/misandric, especially in the presence of third parties or children.

It depends on the definition of 'don't like'? If it is boring or uninteresting you could try moving the discussion subject on to something else? Or politely 'wrap it up' (which even NT folk find hard and awkward) and politely move on.

If it is abusive or deeply offensive then of course you can just tell the person how you feel and walk away.

To just walk away, mid-conversation, without warning or explanation is considered deeply rude and inconsiderate. In terms of Paul Allen, i would doubt that someone so rich and powerful would have such poor people skills, he wouldn't be rich for long.

I prefer not backing down, if anything I'll dig my heels in, and try to push the conversation to extreme polemics that offer no easy out. Best to be clear that you're willing to go the distance, most manipulators/narcissists/others looking for control over you are looking for an easy fight, if you make it difficult they're much less likely to engage with you in the future because the risks are too high.

if I were a six foot, 200-lb male, or a more convincing little spitfire, I'd be more inclined to do the same. I paid close attention to Gamergate and sequelae; not inviting that stuff to follow me home. Sad fact of life, consequences can be different depending on one's appearance/perceived upper body strength.

True, but I think physical appearance is also very much overrated. In most social settings if a larger man starts becoming aggressive with a female, even an aggressive female, the social group will back down the aggressive male. It's instinctual, the fight or flight response gets kicked in when a person sees an larger person become aggressive because even if that aggression isn't directed at them it very easily can be. When there are five or six people all feeling that same response that's when you see them mobilize to minimize the collective threat. It's all about luring said larger person into that territory. Point being for every advantage there is a disadvantage, much as Newton's laws of motion dictate there's an equal opposite reaction, the same concept can be applied to virtually any natural attribute a creature possesses. If appearance were everything there would be no Alexander (called 'scrawny' by Ptolemy) or Napoleon (called short by everyone), or FDR (just plain crippled), and yet those are some the most powerful leaders humanity has produced. If you don't talk as purposely and forcefully in normal life as I've seen you post here then you're doing yourself a disservice.

Deleted my previous post - will just say that persuasion has worked best for me, and I tend to pick my battles and advocate for someone else whenever possible. Group dynamics and societal prejudices make it difficult for targets to advocate on their own behalf, but those same dynamics do make the impact of a protective bystander quite significant.

Even then, I've experienced some retaliation, especially in workplace settings. Not always, but it does happen. (I usually overcame this, but it was exhausting and time consuming.)

Edit in: thank you for the compliment, it is significant and appreciated.

The most powerful people are not the most physically strongest, or the most intellectually capable or academically achieved. The most powerful and influential are those that seem to greatly understand human needs and behaviours to the point of brilliance. In doing so they are able to compel others, almost Jedi like, to do their bidding willingly.
Those who possess such social prowess (and it's important because we are by nature social creatures) would never openly and publically walk away or humiliate. They would humbly listen and offer counter opinion. When faced with abuse, they would let the individual embarrass themselves.

It's been my experience that those same 'charming' people tend to do their dirty work behind closed doors and hide behind their 'charming' exterior in public when they're called on it. At least that's the case with the person that sexually abused me when I was a child. To this day when I see a 'charming' person I see a T.Rex, a voracious carnivore, hiding behind the act because I just don't trust 'charming' people, and I don't trust people that trust 'charming' people because they're the same ones that brow beat me down when I was already suffering, all because I did the right thing by outing a pedophile. Also of note, Hitler possessed many of the qualities you mentioned and was known for being very 'charming' as well, but it doesn't overwrite the fact that he used that ability to slaughter a few million people.

^^ I am deeply sorry that you went through that - any of it, all of it.

You already know this, but I'm going to spell it out slightly differently because so many people don't:

"High functioning" sociopaths make frequent use of charm to groom both their victims of the moment, and those victims' potential support systems. It's impression management, and it is chillingly effective.

Those who are being charmed rather than directly victimized (or preyed upon, if one prefers that term) are essentially sucked into a cultlike mentality, where the sociopath can do no wrong because it never did anything wrong to THEM. The individual being targeted by the sociopath, as victim or prey, is set up for multiple layers of trauma - first the massive betrayal by the sociopath, then the even more massive betrayal by those who should be protecting the people the sociopath is abusing, but instead close eyes, and ranks, to protect the predator.

Slick charm, public displays of generosity, a "teflon" exterior, the consistent avoidance of any responsibility (never admitting error or fault, never apologizing, projection and victim-blaming), constant self-promotion - red flags. Extreme caution advised.

And their flying monkeys (the cultists/enablers) are often as damaging, if not more damaging, than the sociopath at the center of their flock. Like remoras on a shark. Gaslighting and invalidation are much more harmful when endorsed and reinforced by a group.

In my life/career I've run into several of these creatures. In my experience they hate nothing more than detached, critical thinkers and observers, for obvious reasons. (Thus the immediate purge of the thinkers in any society taken over by authoritarians. Note also: vicious demagoguery does not seem to fit the concept of "charm" for reasonable people, but it is definitely "charm" to those for whom hate is the drug of choice, so long as the hatred being marketed aligns with their own.)

Reiterating - I know you know this; several others posting here already seem to; others reading may not have put the pieces together quite yet.

And again, I am deeply sorry over what you endured.

No. That's a jerk move. There is a correlation between being a jerk and being wealthy. Basically, the wealthier people are, the less they are inclined towards empathy because they need to depend less on others. Additionally, people who are jerks may be more inclined to build wealth because they invest less emotional energy in relationships that are not directly relevant to their goals. These people can also turn on the charm to invest energy in relationships that are directly relevant to their goals. I'm sure you have heard that Steve Jobs could be very endearing.

I don't recommend being like Steve Jobs because you can't actually be like Steve Jobs. 99.9% percent of guys wouldn't get away with it and 100% of women wouldn't.

Paul Allen walks away because people likely don't have inherent value to him.

There have been times when I have walked away or gotten engaged in other activities and stopped paying attention when a conversation has taken directions I don't like on a personal level.

If I don't ask for feedback, keep your views to yourself, thank you very much. Chances are good I have a lot of things to say about you too. Do you lack filter, NT? Can't keep your crap to yourself? Maybe you need as assessment. (Snide reaction, not serious suggestion).

I have very little patience with nonsense.

Of course I often don't listen at all period no matter what, because my mind just takes me elsewhere and I easily miss chunks of conversation (or things I listen to or watch) because something makes me think of something else and then I'm soon off to my own thoughts and stop paying attention. This is not deliberate.

If the turn simply is something I find uninteresting, I say very little.
Although I tend to do that anyway, so....
I will likely focus on something else then rather than just leave, or more likely I'll abruptly take advantage of their taking a breath and say bye and leave. It all depends on who it is, how long winded they are, my mood, my relationship with them, the topic, and likely other things that didn't come to mind right now.

I'm naturally standoffish and little talkative, so things like that tend to take care of itself.

I'm usually not the only person there either, and then I just daydream if I can't leave, or retreat.