talking to people--a topic not a question

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I really do not talk to people except to recite "scripts" at work. Otherwise, I have not communicated for about 10 years and even before that communicating was rare. No one really wants to hear what I feel, believe or anything else. I am often considered a good listener. I nod at all the right places, and people think I really care, but I actually don't.

Recently I tried to join facebook groups in order to practice communication skills. Unfortunately, the minute my beliefs, feelings, or other things, (my reality) were stated, I was often attacked and then banned from the site. What I said was not rude or profane, it was just different. I realized then that if a person does not agree with other people they are shunned, and ejected. In other words, here (this country) people speak about diversity and personal differences, but it is just "on paper" diversity does not exist in real life.

After several such day-long attacks and harassment by strangers which became so embarrassing that I never went back, I have decided that there is no real benefit to talking to strangers. I feel horrible and embarrassed when I do. As a young person, I never talked. In college I realized that I was actually very smart, and people wanted to work with me (although I never had any friends). They did not really like me, they wanted me to do their work for them.

So I woke up today thinking that nothing was really different. I talk to clerks at stores when they are taking my money. I talk to people like college professors, or students, but never about anything I feel or believe. No one really cares about my personal knowledge, just whatever I have memorized for work. So why should I try to develop any kind of deeper relationship? I have always wanted friends beut because I was born ugly, I have never had any. So there is really no reason to share. But everyone wants to share. But if you really share what you actually believe, then you are considered a disgusting non-conformist who believes radical ideas because they are not mainstream ideas.

I really do not believe in the mainstream ideas. Some things seem ingenuine. Like why should you pay for a wedding or a funeral? That is stupid it is 35$ to get married (or maybe 100$ depending on the country clerk fees) and about $700 to get cremated in a cardboard box. And yet, you say that to anyone, they freak out. It is not my problem if people want to spend money that they don't need to spend. But if you are whining about the costs, you should not be paying them. (The old adage, if you have to ask the price, you could not afford it). I understand that normal people obsess over these issues of major life-transitions (birth, death, weddings, prom) but I find any of these issues insipid and boring. I have no links with real "people" at all. I am really disinterested. I have very little empathy although I feel sad if someone is injured or something, but I feel worse if it is an animal and I get very emotional watching animal rescue videos, although I could care less about people. (There are too many people in the world, and we are screwing up nature, so I just don't care if a bunch of people lose their houses and a box of photographs in a fire). People think that people who think this way are mentally ill. Sorry. I don't care. I think a lot of people actually don't care, but they just want it to "appear" that they care. I can "act" like I care and say all of the right words.

I have also found that women (supposedly my gender) only talk about child-rearing, fashion, and other insipid, horrible boring topics, and so I avoid making "friends" with women. But at my age, you can only be friends with men if you want to go to bed with them (which I do not because sex is gross). Very rarely do men talk about anything other than sex with women. So really No one talks about things that interest me. My mind is stimulated more by books or videos of topics that interest me.

Oh also, I just remembered, a few months ago, I went on a 6-hour car drive with a person I really respected, and he prompted me to talk about my life and art (I am an artist) and I did-- non-stop. He kept prompting me. When it was finally over I thought I had made a great new friend who might help me with my career. What I found was that I had bored him, and he did not want anything to do with me because I talked too much. So I have been trying to cut down any talking to directions, and other functional language so that I don't end up being considered a "bore."

So what I am saying with a few examples, is whether "not talking" is a good choice. And if that is the case, what do you say. For instance, if you went to dinner with someone, they expect you to "share" and I don't want to share because when I share, bad things happen. So do you "fake-share?" That is talking about things that are more mainstream and understandable to people with mainstream minds? I end up asking a lot of questions about their jobs. I really do not want to hear about their dramatic lives-- but inevitably they bore me with their mental problems their children's problems or failed marriages, and if they are men, they talk about either work, their families or sex.

I hate talking about any of these topics. Sorry if I bored you. Maybe you can tell me what kind of things you talk about to avoid the topics of life, children, family, marriages, sex or other issues that trigger me and make me want to walk away.

What topics interest you?

Have you ever looked on Meetup.com for groups devoted to topics that interest you?

In my experience, if one looks hard enough, it is possible to find people -- both men and women -- who share one's interests and who enjoy having conversations about them.

However, you'll need to make a very targeted effort to find people who share your specific interests.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I got a great deal of pleasure out of reading the first post - it was cathartic in a way, reading thoughts so similar to my own that I never dare voice.
I'm afraid I have no advice to give, though, because I too really struggle to talk to people nowadays.
For me it's tough because I get lonely as heck and I often want to connect, but my thoughts seem so far removed from those of others that there's no way to find common ground.
I've just concluded that nothing good ever came of talking to anyone (except possibly a good therapist).

I find it easiest to talk about special interests. But, it is very easy for Aspies to monologue and bore people. I've learned to keep it short.

Kalyke,

I think your post is brilliant. I can relate to it completely.

This is something I experience constantly. People think I'm very patient and a great listener, but usually I'm listening out of politeness or I'm trying to understand the point they take so long to get to. In their minds I'm just in awe of them. It never occurs to them that, instead of being a patient listener, I'm not really engaged. I'm usually thinking, "When will this person shut up and why don't they care that I'm bored?" Of course, if they knew that they would think I'm a monster. I find most people make assumptions about you. When they discover their assumptions are wrong, they want you to think you're behaving wrong, instead of admitting their assumption was wrong. I find it amazing that so many NTs think they are very social, "people persons," etc. Really, they just want others to hear them ramble, and would never do the same for you. They're not so reciprocal.



Quite true. People, generally, hate equality. It's like Gulliver and the Yahoos, in Gulliver's Travels. Most people's lives are dedicated to building and maintaining their self-image, and if you puncture that with reality then you become the enemy. It's pretty frightening to think about--this is the mindset which rules the world.



I doubt you're ugly, and I don't think this is why you lack friends. Most of us here have trouble with friendships because we communicate in a way which isn't flattering, and most people believe what is flattering to them. Everyone wants to be heard, but few want to listen. I find that most people are convinced they understand life, and they look for things in the world to confirm their beliefs. Few people engage with the world as a way of understanding life. I think this is why you've had the problems you've had.



And yet, if you were a Van Gogh or Socrates or Jesus then how many of these mainstream people would adore you, thinking they were actually the same way?



I don't think that means you have little empathy. It sounds like you have a lot of empathy. You seem like someone who realizes this world isn't here for you, and you recognize your own small space in it. To me, that is a huge sign of empathy. Most NTs think the world is here for them. They become so frightened over difference, even though they rule the world. How much more do they need? On the whole, they are not very empathetic.



That's exactly right.



I've had similar happen to me, but I guess the upside is you recognized he was bored. If he prattled on and on to you, would he recognize you were bored or would he think you were very patient because that was flattering to him? Maybe we're not so bad at reading people after all. I may miss the non-verbal cues, but I can think through logically what someone might feel (i.e. I realize people don't talk about my "special interests," so logically I know they're not that interested, even if that's very frustrating to me). People tend not to think that, logically, I'm most likely bored, angry, upset, etc., with a situation. They honestly think I'm not bothered by anything, never angry, since I'm not constantly throwing tantrums--they may as well say I'm not alive.

[/quote]So what I am saying with a few examples, is whether "not talking" is a good choice. And if that is the case, what do you say.[/quote]

Avoid mainstream people. Mask when it's genuinely necessary or overall to your benefit. Otherwise, I would seek out people or some sub-culture which fits your values, whether the people are NT or not. My fiancé is a Mennonite, and they share a lot of my values: humility, honesty, hard work for its own sake, interest in social and environmental issues, learning. These are values mainstream society claims to have, but most people can't recognize them in real life. My fiancé is NT, but worries about being too blunt (she is very logical), whereas most people say they hate liars but are too spineless to be honest. She and I do a lot of work in understanding each other, but we're a great fit simply because we both value directness, communication, and problem solving. Mainstream society is more about image-making and scapegoating. I think once you find the right people, you'll feel much better. Mainstream society is basically a lot of people convinced they are smart and down to earth and amazing, without actually doing anything to earn those descriptors. Because that would be work.

Thank you for your post, your thoughts, and your honesty.

Hi, thank you, everyone, who replied. I was really embarrassed after writing the post and I wished I hadn't. I am very bad about sharing because I tend to get in trouble for what I say. I actually learned a lot. Truly, most people really are not interested in what you are saying as long as it is complementary to them, and helps their internal image (etc.). This is not to say that we are saints also. Those who said that I should seek out people with my interests and views (subcultural or otherwise) are on the mark. I live in an extremely small town (no meetups here) but am in the midst of getting an online job and will save up to move to a larger, more culturally diverse place with more opportunity, and cultural experiences. At one time, I did have people to talk to because I lived in one of the larger towns (400K population) and finding people of my interests and values was not that hard (somewhat hard, but not impossible). Now, in this small town, since there were no jobs to speak of, there just isn't anything. It is like a prison to me. I am going to print this post out and look at it again because there were a lot of good thoughts and good advice. Thank you.

Hi Kalyke,

I was moved when reading your post, as it mirrors *so many* of my experiences, even when you talked about being ugly (I'm on the same boat), and how other students and coworkers used you. My own brothers even use me: they ***never*** contact me, only when they need something. Oh but they do *visit* my cousin and aunt, they do celebrate Christmas and New Year with them, etc. Now, when it comes to me, nothing. No interaction. I'm just their translator, or whatever else they need. But that's all, if they don't need anything, forget it. And we live half an hour away and (as they are both musicians) they have a much more 'relaxed' schedule than mine, so they could try to accommodate it so that we could have lunch together once a month or something. They have even celebrated Christmas/New Year's with their bloody friends, for heaven's sake! I- well, it's as if I weren't even related to them.

My coworkers? Same thing. But they do have lunch together and so on. I try to be really nice, follow my script (ask them about work, their kids, their grandchildren -things I've realised are considered 'appropriate topics'), I even fake interest when they start talking about their holidays or their latest trip or other dull things they enjoy talking about. Nothing. I answer their questions regarding work and my family/kids. Now, if I attempt discussing something that interests me, they'd listen for a while, but as soon as someone more interesting arrives, they just turn around and start talking to that person, leaving me mid-sentence, utterly annoyed and confused. How rude is that? And then *we* are the ones who have poor social skills?!

Regarding what Mona said about finding people with similar interests to mine: my interests are quite 'rare': languages, in general, but more specifically grammar (i. e. Morphology and syntax, mainly), phonetics and phonology. These are the things I can definitely explain to someone else, and say 'I'm interested in this', because then the rest becomes to vague, or again, too specific (for example, I love music and singing, but this is restricted to a few particular artists and bands, which are not so known by the general population).

Sometimes I think I'm just too nerdy.

So, making friends has always been a real struggle, I fail to understand how it works, just as I fail to understand how much interaction is appropriate. How frequent should interaction be? or how long should one keep the interaction going? How intense should the interaction be?

I also have a lot of problems 'reading' people, and I don't realise when they are using me (only after repeated experiences with the same person do I realise), when I'm boring them (until it's too late, like what I mentioned above about my coworkers) or whether they are genuinely interested in me as a person or they want something else (get something from me, or have sex with me -when it comes to men, this has happened a few times, especially when i was younger and unmarried- which freaks me out!)

It's awful to have this lack of connection, to not have an intellectual peer, because I feel my mind is wasting away, I feel I'd benefit greatly if I could have intelligent exchanges where I could explore my most complex thoughts, my interests, etc. My cognitive skills would expand further and further.

It's also awful to not have anyone who can understand how one perceives the world, the experiences one has (even the traumatic ones), as I believe sharing with an understanding, loving friend can help one overcome the intrusive thoughts associated with them, etc. (By 'loving' I didn't mean it in a romantic sense - I'm a bit odd in that regard perhaps) .

Anyway, as I was saying, I feel like there's this huge part of myself that remains -eternally- under the surface, and nobody will ever get to see that part (or parts) of me, because they are not only not able to understand, they don't even want to make the effort to understand and they don't even care about what I have to say. Thus, I feel like I'm wasting away, which sometimes makes me feel quite down

I find that how I dress does affect my social interactions with both men and women co-workers.
If I look good people are more willing to move past the shallow small talk and talk about what is really on their mind.
Sometimes get really useful information, like someone's planned retirement date.