People think I'm arguing when I'm trying to understand

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The way I see the world is that I have a model of it in my mind. When someone says something which doesn't fit that model I think that I may have a misunderstanding so I ask questions to find out more. People have told me that I'm being pedantic or picky when I do this but I'm not, I'm trying to figure out something which doesn't fit into my understanding of the world. Sometimes people start getting angry about this kind of thing and they think I'm making an argument, but I'm not, I'm just trying to understand.

Does anyone else have similar experiences?

Also, I find this really difficult to manage. Because I find communication difficult I do get things wrong in my view of the world quite often so I need to look at things when something doesn't fit. But how can I do that without annoying people or letting them think I'm arguing when I'm not?

Any advice would be great.

Thanks!

This is a very common thing for some of us...

I get told I am argumentative, quite a lot. It's pretty similar. These other people have their own model, and it will be different according to their experiences and biases. Some people get offended having their model questioned.

It may cause them a degree of insecurity.

That's my take on it.

Yes. All of the time. I have had frequent issues with my wife over this very same thing. Usually goes:

I bring up problem/issue
I'm offered solution that doesn't seem to make sense
I question further
I get yelled at for arguing
I yell back because I'm not
Fight occurs

And my wife has known me for 12 years, I've explained this countless times, yet still it's an issue. It must be hard for most people to get. I try to explain, if I didn't ask you questions or "argue" it'd mean I accpt exactly what you say, or I simply wasn't paying attention.

It can be frustrating, but I'm learning to turn it off. I usually try adding statements like "So, help me understand..." or "Let me see if I'm getting this straight...". Just little statements to make clear I'm investigating, not arguing.

This happens to me often.
One problem is that people often enjoy talking about things they know practically nothing about. They have conversations with each other that are exchanges of misinformation with neither party listening very closely or thinking very hard. While you or I upon hearing something that makes no sense as it stands would think it is reasonable to attempt to find out more by asking questions, they think the questions are an attempt to call them out as not knowing what they are talking about, which they probably don't. Socially speaking, if you like someone you are apparently supposed to let them prattle on nonsensically and pretend not to notice any inconsistencies in whatever they are saying.
Once you've triggered the notion that you are trying to argue with them and make them look uninformed or wrong, they will be on the defensive and you've given them the opportunity to distract from their weak position by accusing you of being argumentative or attacking them in some way.
Instead of asking questions that point out inconsistencies or have the type of factual answers that could make them feel put on the spot if they don't know, try more open-ended statements, like "tell me more, this is very interesting to me, as I thought such and such" or "I didn't know that, I thought whatever."

Sometimes you'll end up having what they probably thought was a nice conversation and you will have learned nothing besides what an uninformed bore they are, but at least they won't think you're a jerk.

I have advised my aspie daughter on various aspects of life. When I do so, I am burned out and exhausted from work, and do not feel like defending my position. Here's my advice - take it or leave it. (most of it is pretty good advice and formed from a lifetime of problem-solving and self-education)

So when she challenges my perspective, I am really not up for that. She's on disability, doesn't work, presumably is better rested than me, and is still in a learning place more than an advising place. I'm giving as much as I can and don't feel it is my job to have an involved discussion.

I'm aspie too, so you see this from both sides in my anecdote.

Thanks for this - it never occurred to me that people would get upset about having their model questioned. If I've got something wrong I would rather know.





Your pattern of interaction with your wife sounds just like me when I have this issue with folks I know. Thanks for the added statements - I especially like "Let me see if I'm getting this straight...". Great idea!





LOL. You're last paragraph made me smile.

Hmmm, thinking about what you've said though, I know what you mean about people talking to each other about things they know very little about. I have a tendency to 'help' by correcting things which works great when I'm teaching but is definitely not helpful in social situations. I do have to learn to let most of this go and not bother about it. It's hard though because inconsistencies and inaccuracies are like bee stings in my mind.

I guess I could work at it like I would if I were in the classroom. Working with a student I would look over all the inaccuracies and pick what I think is the most important one for the child to work on and just look at that with them (otherwise it can be too disheartening for them.) So in social situations I could look at it all too and then decided to learn from what the've said where their inaccuracies are. Then I could just remember that information about them and only give my opinion if they ask.




I understand your point of view here. I'm a teacher but I haven't worked since the year before last due to a chronic neuropathic pain condition. Sometimes I have bad days when I can hardly manage all the normal things of running my household. My son isn't formally on the spectrum but has some strong ASD tendencies and he sometimes asks for help with homework. Normally I enjoy this as I miss teaching, but I can't be as helpful on bad days. I just don't have the resources. I understand where he's coming from if he's arguing about my advice - I suspect he too is trying to understand - but I can't always work through all of that. Thanks for your perspective - it's really useful to hear how things are for people dealing with this kind of thing.

This warrants a topic all it's own, but it could go on forever. I've asked people who are not on the spectrum but share many attributes for their take on it and they've all said the same thing. When you identify that a group does this (the B.S. exchange replacing functional conversation) just ignore it. If you watch closely, that's what many NT people do & apparently they simply file away in their heads that "joe is full of it, and himself". They won't question him on it, but nor will the smart ones ever depend on his knowledge either. My guess is they figure that is his way of feeling important and so everyone just lets it be. Like a parent does with a small child. At my work on the phone team we have two such guys. When the call volume drops off some afternoons they start talking to each other and it's like duelling banjos of stupid.

Regarding the OT, I've found that for me what works is to consciously back way off & try to appear as harmless and non-confrontational as possible, then qualify my question with, "I'm not arguing you're point, I just need more to understand" or something like that. There are still some people who take it as an affront; I've learned to act like an NT and just let it go. That works better if I can tell someone about it later or read an unbiased source to confirm that I was right to question it in my head.

As others have pointed out, in a social hierarchy from an NT point of view it's not wise to question someone if they think it will make them look stupid/wrong. Despite the internal need to "fix" bad knowledge, you have to pick your battles. Do it too often and people see you as a know-it-all (even though you are right). Do it rarely but for carefully chosen things and you gain their respect.

I've been accused of arguing a lot offline when I ask questions trying to better understand. I've been accused of arguing online a lot too when I was posting things trying to analyze & sort things out. I don't interact with many people offline nowadays & I sorted things out with myself more so I don't need to analyze & sort things out as much so I don't really have that problem nowadays.

I get accused of arguing all the time. I question things that don't make sense. I don't just accept what someone says if it makes no logical sense. So I ask for that person to prove his/her point, and then that person gets mad.

And I like things to be correct. So I correct people if they are wrong, or try to clarify things. Often these are small details that others find insignificant, but are important to me. I actually got called out for doing this yesterday. People find this behavior to be annoying, and it can cause arguments.

LOl 'duelling banjos of stupid'! !!

I like the process you describe for the smart ones - recognise a non-functional communication; don't question it, don't depend on the knowledge from that person.



That really helps. If I just let it go and leave it then it leaves this uncertainty in my understanding of the world but if I talk to someone about it later or look it up on an unbiased source then that will check out the inconsistent information. Thanks for this advice - much appreciated.






Clearly I'm not alone with this issue. Thanks for responding!

"It's hard though because inconsistencies and inaccuracies are like bee stings in my mind." - Yep, for me too.

It happens to me too, and yes this quote is very accurate.

I'd refer to them more as splinters which i instinctively wish to remove. It's one facet of my personality i do not like, and am forever working on.
At the same time, i don't think it's just an nt thing of not enjoying being on the receiving end. Having your every move or statement questioned and having to explain everything in detail to "prove you're right".. As Bea said, it reaches a point of just take it or leave it.

"Thanks for this - it never occurred to me that people would get upset about having their model questioned. If I've got something wrong I would rather know."

I'm not sure they actively think about it. It seems to be just an emotional reaction.

Ardentmisanthrope23, to me the glaring irony of it is that somehow it's okay for them to question the validity (well, more like dismiss outright) of when we explain to them how our AS/ASD style of interaction is different. It's like *they* are so rigid in their thought or models that they cannot accept it, or adapt to it. Which kinda makes one wonder if it isn't so much a difference of type of thinking (ie rigid thought AS/ASD stereotype) so much as differences in *what* NT's and we are rigid about.