Banned From MB...again

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Oops, I did it again.

Got banned from another Mb,that is (for posting the apparently offensive phrase "Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" Seriously. The Thought Police had nothing better to do that day)

I'm still totally not getting the NT way of thinking. They all pat each other on the back saying "yes,I know what you mean" but nobody ever gets what I mean. This is incredibly frustrating.

Has anybody else ever had this experience online?

Yes, I find that it's difficult to be understood by NTs in all forms of communication: face to face, telephone, online, text messaging etc.

I don't really use NT message boards unless it is something of specific relevance to a topic that I am very interested in or that I am reasonably knowledgeable about - and even then I keep it factual - because if I put my 'personality' into it and get attacked, that really hurts.

I like using WP though because a lot of us have had similar experiences so people here generally understand.

Depends on the forum and it's targeted members age.

I was once banned from an AS message board for being too argumentative.

Well, I thought I was "debating" while they thought I was "arguing."

You have to learn the list culture and find out what will be tolerated and what won't.

On a philosophy message board my approach would have been considered logical and constructive, but on this list they were really more interested in building a consensus (if I was in a bad mood i might say, mutual admiration society) so my approach was considered rigid and destructive.

So my guess would be that your MB did not have the kind of rowdy saloon atmosphere that would tolerate flaming, and you failed to recognize this.

Better luck next time.

You're probably right, beautifulspam. I should be a bit more discriminating about the company I keep online. Like my late father used to say, "You lay down with dogs, you get fleas".

Unfortunately, a lot of MBs these days are just mutual admiration societies, and they don't tolerate outsiders or anyone with a different opinion to the 'in-crowd'. The culture of censorship is such that you can't say "Boo" anymore without offending some 'sensitive' soul.

I think I will just stick around here and maybe a couple of other MBs, rather than visit MBs where I have to constantly watch my back and worry sick about whether my posts will meet "their" approval.

I've been banned from forums before-I was being an ass because I hated the people and they hated me

Anna's right about many being "mutual admiration societies." Don't sweat it too much. If you believe that you aren't acting like an ass and are making an effort not to sound that way but people still treat you as though you are then let it go and move on to something else. An abrasive tone is much easier to tolerate online than in person so if they can't take a little straight talk then they are just looking for excuses to treat you like crap. I've been temporarily kicked out of an IRC channel or two in my day but I've never been banned from a forum, but then I don't really post on any except this one. Obviously I'm new here so give it time.

Yup, I know all about that kind of thing. Don't dare to oppose anyone, because to oppose one is to oppose an entire group. And you WILL get jumped on.

The sites, even this one, are set up to be for a certain group or groups. You can forget about fitting in if you are not part of those groups. They will not LET you join.

They are very protective of their territory. Unless you show unswerving alliance with their mindset and their goals, you will be rejected.

You can read any site you want. You might have to join to read, just never post. Consider the sites as some anthropological expedition where you are studying some weird culture with strange rituals. After studying for several years, and figuring out what it is that they do, you might be able to enter their group and fake your way along. For awhile.

That's what seems to happen to me. If I try to be "myself", I just get in trouble. If I talk too much, it's "trolling". If I ask questions, it's "harassment". If I try to find out answers to questions on my own, it's "stalking". If I think I'm making a joke and I really do think it was funny, instead I'm told I've insulted everyone. If I make a wrong interpretation, I'm "stupid" because "everyone knows that". And I must be "trolling" too.

My conclusion. People are idiots. Don't hang out around them. Hah! Just here. Here is pretty good. At least from what I've seen, people WILL explain what they meant if they are asked. We are all used to having questions and not understanding, and we can explain or understand an explanation better here. And people actually understand some of the things that were not understood at all by NTs in other forums/sites.

It's such an intense feeling that I am mentally jumping up and down when I find out that I am not the only one who sees the world or situations in a certain way. That only happens here. I can relate to people on other levels, but the underlying Aspie thought patterns are only found in Aspies. And perhaps in NTs who are well-versed in their lives because they are involved with Aspies.

I get more understanding and better conversation from inanimate objects than I do from many people on other sites.

Wow! All I can say is that what I've read here in this thread is more real and genuine than anything else I've read on other MBs over the last four or five years.
You guys ROCK!

I feel much better now. I was actually feeling very upset about being rejected online (again), thinking "whats wrong with me, why don't they like me"

Theres nothing wrong with us at all. The fakes and phonies on all those other MBs aren't worth a hill of beans.

Yes, it would be preferable to leave the ass inside the stable where it belongs.

Yay, Anna! So glad you are feeling better.

There ARE lots of good people on other sites, that aren't Aspies or Aspie sites. I've found a lot of them over the years. There are people that understand me, that I get along with, because we find things in common somewhere. And they LIKE my straightforwardness, questioning, and goofy humor. There ARE people who will like us just fine for being whatever we are.

But in groups, you are entering a GROUP. And any one of them can object to your presence and the group may follow along in objection, in order not to disrupt the group.

You would not believe the pompous, arrogant, condescending message posted to me on another site. One comment that sticks out is that the person considered it "risky" to compliment me. RISKY.

You think about that. I did. Because the group did not like me, it was risky to be complementary. That is so wrong. There are people I do not like, that regardless of that, if they do something admirable or need sympathy or have a neat idea, I will complement that idea.

An example of that was when a woman was ill and was trying to post. While she and I did not get along too well, guess who was the ONLY one who wished her better and scolded another person who was ignoring her. She wanted HIS attention. He was too busy picking on me.

What did he say about my concern for her health? Said it was sick, disturbed, or something. Because it was too strange to consider that I might care, I guess. Of course I care. Even if I don't like someone, I care. About their health and well-being. And when someone is down, all that disliking is not important, because they need kind words.

It takes a lot to be ourselves. Not to be constantly influenced by a group. The group will seek to mold it's members. To minimize conflict and to encourage cohesive thought/action. That can be very good, like the Civil Rights march. A group that is downtrodden can gather strength in numbers for a better world. Individually, they may well have been beaten or killed.

But it works negatively in general. It suppresses individual freedoms and original thought. Encourages behavior that may not be your own preference, but you do it to fit in.

A friend had reminded me of all this recently. I have a degree in Psychology, but I never used the information to apply to people on message boards. Instead of thinking of various theories, I would think everybody hates me. It's not that they hate me, per se, it's that they don't understand at all how I can be so different and different people can be viewed as a threat to the group as a whole.

The threat is: "OMG, she's NOT CONFORMING TO OUR UNWRITTEN RULES! Something must done. We cannot have people thinking on their own, otherwise we don't have a group! Off with her head! Kick her out of the group. Scare her away. Pick on her."

That's why we might see an entire group going after one individual. That individual is a threat.

It's funny to me. I know I don't fit in. I'm not trying to change the group. I just want someone to talk with or joke with or hang out around online with. I flit and flutter between all kinds of groups. Some groups are good with that, others don't want interlopers.

It's hard to remember this when we feel hurt. Find a home base, like this site, and some people that understand. Then you always have a comfort zone to come back to or head out from to look into other sites. It will help you to stay balanced and not get lost in emotional conflicts elsewhere.

It happens here too - at least the ganging up.
I think that's a part of human nature - even
among aspies. And the problem is that someone
may say something a little off color (though not
as mild as what you got slammed for), and then
when everyone hacks on them, they become more
defensive, and say something which may cross the
line.


The danger of having rules.

I suppose it happens everywhere. I believe it is due to each of us having our own expectations of what is "right behavior". But we NEVER voice them. It is the same as the unwritten rules.

What is "off color" or over the edge or too much to ONE person, is NOT to another. That's why we get kicked off message boards or ganged up on. We did not know what each other person's expectations were. We did not voice our own expectations, prior to whatever occurs, and ONLY if our boundaries are crossed do we say something.

I had a group for awhile, where I stipulated I did not want swearing, and I did not want trolling. I did not want endless video links as some people (ME) cannot watch the videos on dial-up. So I cannot properly moderate if I cannot SEE what is being posted.

I did expect everyone to be "good" and that "good" was MY definition, that I never voiced. We discern the rules from what is attacked. Right?

It is a problem when there is blatant hypocrisy and SOME people can do it, and some cannot. Run fast and far whenever encountering hypocrisy. Er, or point it out, and then run fast and far. People will probably not change.

I'd rather see a discussion on something, and that consensus reached so that everyone can understand. Not just attacking. If the rules are written, then they can be followed, or questioned.

This "it's wrong if you do it, but okay if they do it, because it's different..." is crap. If the end result is the same, and the end result is opposed, then it's wrong for all to do it. Right?

Even if the identical thing is done, it's STILL wrong if I do it and okay if others do it. Why? Because they are accepted as part of the group. They conform and meet the minimum requirements. More crap.

What I can say is that this site is much better in many ways than the last place I was. It's better organized. It doesn't have "dead areas" that have long since been abandoned. Everything works. Nobody has jumped on me for not putting extensive personal photographs in some profile. There is no accumulation of "friends" that is counted as a number that is visible to all people.

No friends meant that one was evil. Too many friends meant that a person doesn't take friendship seriously and just accumulates numbers. There were many games that were being played. And they were all repulsive to me. While I can see who interacts with whom, I won't have it in my face if I was to look at their profile. There was too much information in profiles on the other site. This site lets ME make up my OWN mind about people.

TRUE, you have a really good heart. Everything you've said helps me to put things in perspective.

My major is Social Work but I have studied a lot of Psych as well. However, I would never dream of using my professional training in a social setting, it just never occured to me to do so.

I hate BS politics/game playing, ie having to suck up to those with all the power, so I try to remain neutral as much as possible in RL. Thats what I have to do here at University,as I want to do a PhD and eventually lecture. So I just keep my head down and don't rock the boat.

On MBs, I no longer go out of my way to fight with anybody unless they tip me over the edge. In the last instance,I was trying really hard to fit in, complimenting people, agreeing with them (only when I really did agree BTW) etc etc. Thats why it hurt all the more when the dominant group decided to hound me out of there. But the signs were there, I was just too blind to see em. Like they would completely ignore my posts and just talk to each other. That hurt.

What makes me sick now is seeing that the dominant group are going out of their way to recruit the newbies to their point of view and the newbies have no idea what they are getting into.

Anna, remember it IS a social game. They WILL recruit new members, but ONLY those who reflect their values. And it is a game that is willingly played by NTs and those who wish to climb a social ladder, belong/advance in a hierarchy, and they intuitively KNOW the rules. The rules that you and I and many other Aspies do not get. We just do not get it.

I know I examined my psych texts like that expedition I mentioned previously. The knowledge was applied to tests, not real people.

USE that knowledge you are accumulating. LEARN to see how the theories apply to the people in public. PRACTICE your own analyzing skills by simply READING the posts on this message board or ANY message board.

One person on another site had a father who was a psychiatrist. I inferred from one post, that he must have worked from home. As she had said that her father made her analyze instantaneously the KIND of person who wanted to see him, and that he would be mad at her if she did not cut off a certain kind of person.

I was shocked. She said she was a young person at that time. Yeah, make a child become a professor of psychology and then blame the child if they don't pick it up. I am still disgusted. I, as an Aspie, could NEVER have picked that stuff up. And ANY child is NOT responsible for a parent's job.

How DARE a parent place that responsibility on a child.

You may have to shut up in university. I didn't. I reported professors for hypocrisy. I hate hypocrisy. And I WANT to know if I do that too. You will need to be part of the group, in THEIR eyes to get in grad school. BUT, you CAN keep records... You CAN express yourself and what you observe in your own personal writings. This does NOT rock the boat, and gives you the release you need to continue.

That professor's handout said that if people did not want to be on time for class, they should reassess their priorities and not bother with the class. Something like that. And get who was consistently late? That professor. He was always late. I think ONCE he was on time. ONCE in an entire semester. So I sent a letter to the chair and suggested that the professor in question should reassess his wanting to teach. Hah.

I couldn't shut up. I have always been outspoken.

It hurts a lot when people attack. So we HAVE to learn the psychology and other behavioral patterns. We have to think about them consciously. And we have to use those things so often that they become second nature.

Remember, we all started off just pooping whenever we had to. Really. We defecated, we urinated, we hollered our little lungs out. We learned over time to control those things. We originally had to make a conscious effort to be aware of our bodily processes, what those feelings meant, and to look for the proper (read that as socially acceptable) outlet (no pun intended).

We learned to communicate that we had to use the bathroom, and to get to the bathroom to do what was required.

It is much more natural to just let it happen. Hah! But it's not socially acceptable.

So we require conscious effort to work on communication and learning what is socially acceptable. It's harder. Yup. But, that learning process gives us strength in other learning processes.

Our attention to detail can greatly benefit those who do not automatically "get it". It could help NT teens who are in wonder. Kids. Adults entering into a new job, NT or Aspie. Changing behavioral patterns. Like starting an exercise program, eating healthy, moving to another place. Some people just do it, and they don't need our help. Others need a little help. And some need a lot of help.

If I knew to expect hounding, it wouldn't hurt as much, right? If I knew how to analyze a group before posting, and see what they wanted, and decide if I wanted to fit in with them, it would help.

A "life instruction course" would be helpful for a lot of people. You could lecture forever on that. And it would be certainly appreciated by people like me. I could have used that in grade school. As so many patterns are set in grade school, those things could be worked on from the beginning, and that could contribute to a better world.

While we can't change it all, making a difference in ONE PERSON'S LIFE is a MAJOR contribution. Who contributed to Martin Luther King's life? Probably a combination of who he was, how he felt, what he saw, and what he chose to do. What about Ghandi?

Someone, somewhere, contributed to those lives. They will forever be unknown and unnamed. I am not destined for fame. I do believe that I am destined to be myself, to set examples, to make contributions. I don't need to be the one who affects the world. I leave that to those who are better qualified.

What I want to do is plant a seed. A simple, small seed. Some will nourish it, and it will grow strong. In your future lectures, do not seek to change all. Just plant the seed. Out of hundreds of seeds, that go off to different circumstances, a few may grow.

And those seeds of the parent plant will be passed on to others. We may not be alive or have any direct connection to those people who make the BIG differences in this world.

But I guarantee there were many influences all along the way for the many good people in this world that have made major differences. I wished I could have taken the place of Princess Diana, when she died. She was doing good. People listened to her.

Then again, I might just be in that supporting role. SOMEONE influenced her along the way. Right? Some teachers. Some news reporters. Some PBS shows. Some "something" got her interested in a particular cause that she decided to get involved with.

Think in those terms. I might not (probably will never) get the Nobel Peace Prize. I sincerely want to do something big. BIG~!~!~! I want peace so bad.

But I think my place is to set the stage with other people. To ready them for a real leader. Someone who has done the climbing of the social ladder and can take those lessons they may have learned from their grandparents, in which I may have played a minor role.

I won't be around to see it. The grandkids won't know it was me who added a tidbit. I will be long gone and forgotten.

But isn't it worth it?

It is.

Oh yes, it is.