Why does this bother me so much?

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I love to sing to myself.... and talk to myself, but only when I'm alone in the house. It's as if it helps my thinking process and brings an end to boredom if I speak to myself. It's kind of like how I'll train and practice something till I'm an expert or just near perfect at it, but as soon as someone sees me or judges me, I retract into my shell and act like I wasn't doing anything.

I tend to get over talking to myself by thinking very loudly in my mind or saying things a little louder than under my breath. That usually only happens when I'm annoyed or angry, and tends to be a humorously chosen set of words like "what the flubber nuggets just happened."

I asked my NT partner and we agree that soft singing probably would be better.
That's a clever idea, and it will make a nice transition, but we also agree you still won't be quite approachable, though definitely less psychotic appearing. So working on the restraint is still important. Learning how to be quiet in the boredom... disconnecting the mouth from the brain. What happens when you silence yourself? How's that feel inside? What thoughts come up?

Something else to think about, and I personally find this very annoying but probably true... your facial expression. There was a thread here for a while about that, and a lot of Aspies get hassled for being 'angry' when we're not... our intense, thoughtful expression looks angry to NTs. I am absolutely not in favor of the witless Pollyanna smile and I have struggled to figure out how to handle this. Going blank face plays into that robot stereotype. I've settled on giving the ol' Buddha smile a little face time... I don't feel so fake. I think Buddha's smile is one of quiet self-confidence, gentle joy, and very approachable. And that is how I often feel. Anyway, that's my process; I just want to point out the facial expression part of this equation.

Try sitting in a crowded area... I do this in airports when I travel. As you look around at others, what is your gut reaction to them? Who would you approach and who not? Are their facial expressions any part of that decision? I've found this exercise quite illuminating.

As you've probably picked up, I study people and myself a lot.

Sometimes I feel as though I could only quell these instincts if I were to cancel them out of my mind forever... however I highly doubt that that's possiible. But it sometimes feels as though I would have to eliminate these habits completely if I were to live with roommates or a female partner. Hell, I live with my uncle (who has undiagnosed AS, but doesn't seem to acknowledge it), and he talks to himself all the time. I wouldn't dream of him being psychotic, but I can never tell if he's angry or not, because when he sees me, he'll quickly transition into a more positive mood, as if nothing had happened. It makes me wonder, am I headed down this path? Am I going to be someone who's so unapproachable that I'll eventually just give up any and all hope of social success?

And as for the facial expressions... uggggghhhhhhhhh........ that's just aggravating to think about. Seriously, how can I regulate something that I can't even see myself?

Some people say that if you look at yourself in the mirror and practice it yourself, you can somehow master it.

I think it shouldn't matter.

At that part, in her World, you have started a War.
Look, about stuff, she's probably right for about 20%. She's probably right about you not being very social, for example. But her saying you'll end up depressed, be lonely all your life, blah blah blah, that's just her way of insulting you. When you asked her how she got a guy like that, you offended her greatly. For all you know she could have a very low self-esteem, and her going offline was her running to her teddy bear and crying all night. Or something. Because basically, you said she's unattractive.

Anyway, don't take anything she says to heart. She's only trying to insult you anyway.

No, it's not about getting rid of them, it's about being appropriate with them. Your uncle chattering on at home is no problem; what adults do in the privacy of their own homes is their business.

Your uncle didn't have the support and knowledge that you do... you're young, intelligent, and have more options.

I've been thinking about what might help, and I'm wondering if developing a tolerance for boredom may take some of the pressure off? Or maybe cultivating a more respectful and interested attitude for the other speaker?

Realistically, the world does require some adjusting to; but I think of it more as adjusting, rather than eliminating. If you check, you'll probably find that everyone you see employed is not talking to themself... you've got your whole university career to find a way to adjust that, work with that, find the work-arounds that give you what you need while giving the NTs what they need.

Being approachable creates the opportunity for friendship and love, which you want and deserve. And as your skills develop, you will be able to educate your friends and partner about what you need.... like time to pace and talk in your space or whatever you find as life carries you forward. Don't create a negative picture of your future... imagine a good one, with mutual accommodation and kindness, where your talents and gifts are recognized, your limits accepted and you do the same for others.



I know, I know. But I've got the so-called Aspie glare and it can scare people off, give you a very negative reputation before you even say Hi. And it's really just that I am thinking! Which means I'm actually quite happy and content. The exact opposite of being angry. Or I'm trying to figure out what just happened; but I'm still not angry, just confused and sorting things out.

This came to a head for me when it seemed like the whole freaking world kept jumping my A** for being angry and I had NO idea what they were talking about. Someone finally said... you always look so angry; that was the clue I needed. I looked angry and that bugged people. So I tried to figure out why I looked angry and I learned that I tend to go through life with a bit of a scowl, partly from thinking and partly from light sensitivity. So now I tell people I want as friends what that look means and things have gotten much better. And when I'm listening to someone, I try to lighten up the look from my side, to set them more at ease... when I remember.

Practice feeling your face... not with your hands, with your attention... can you feel it when you crease your brow? What does it feel like to smile? What does a blank face feel like?

Throughout the day, randomly, just check in with your face and see what it's up to. Wierd exercise, but very interesting. No judgement, just get to know your way of expressing on your face various mind states...

I still wonder if I'm just being stubborn and refusing to change. Perhaps I'm being like every other stubborn, childish stereotypical person with AS who hates change and is unwilling to adapt. Or is it something else? Why does it seem like changing my habits would make me uncomfortable with myself, even though I'm miserable because people are scared of me and assuming I'm psychotic?

I don't think it's all due to AS; don't forget, you're also a teen/young adult and that's a pretty wild time... testing your limits and the limits of society. So in that way, the wish to fully express who you are and how you see things is spectacularly normal. The talking and the pacing are just the little Aspie twists, that's all.

It's also an amazing time, because you aren't jaded by the 'reality' of working for a living and just plain being ground down by life, so your perspective is fresh, often quite discerning and very vivid and vital. I mean, I went to sit-ins, barracaded railroads, protested against sexism, fought for lesbian rights... all due to my vision of a peaceful, equitable world.

It's up to you how much, if at all, you compromise what you see as essential to you... but if you can re-direct the energy behind the self-talking (say to singing) and be more successful thereby in being accepted and heard by others, respected for your intelligence rather than being shunned for your oddness, well???

And the facial expression... I mean, if you're thinking of theater, it's something you'll have to do anyway.

We Aspies run on scripts we learn through observation and trial and error. We're already IN theater, we might as well get good at it.

I just realized something (or maybe I knew this all along). Perhaps I'm muttering my innermost thoughts because no one else wants to hear them. But therein lies the problem. I know that no one wants to hear what it is I want to talk about, so I talk to myself about it. It's like I'm having awesome ideas for conversations in my head, but I'm fully aware that no one is interested in what I'm thinking about, so I talk to myself in order to satisfy my urge to verbalize my thoughts.

Hey, good observing!

So here's where the powerful Aspie intellect kicks in... seeing that about yourself, extend it. Inquire into it.

Is this true? Do you have nothing to say no one wants to hear?
Or is it rather that you want a particular response and there's no guarantee you'll get it?
Or are you developing a line of thinking that is very interesting to you and you don't want extraneous blather thrown in?
Or.... ?

What's the script that's running in your head around saying this particular thought, expressing this line of thinking? (It'll vary, I suspect. Watch them, become aware of them.)

If this (no one wants to hear my thoughts) is true for you, do you suppose it might be true for others? This could even be a line of enquiry with folks you trust. As in...

"You know, earlier I was having this great line of thought, and I realized that probably no one else wanted to hear it. Does that ever happen to you?"

And I'll tell you, from my side, yes it does. I don't talk to myself, I write it down or just get fully absorbed in silence and cogitation, but it definitely does. I know that at that particular moment no one wants to hear what I'm thinking... and I don't want to be interrupted with what they're thinking. So it's all cool, I'm just off in my head.

If I'm with friends and there's space in the conversation, as in it's appropriate to introduce a topic, I might start the conversation with some part of what I'm thinking about (Did it ever strike you..., or Has anyone ever noticed... or I was just thinking... ) but only when I feel like I have the patience to listen to their responses, as well as share my own.

Otherwise, I keep my thoughts to myself and just groove on how freaking brilliant I am and not risk finding out otherwise.

In any case, keep going with your investigations. I think the better you understand the self-talking, the more likely it is you'll find your own way to re-channel it and find a way to be more approachable.

My own way of being unapproachable, if you didn't pick it up, is to become completely engaged in my thoughts, completely self-contained, and so nobody bothers me. The Aspie "frown" comes on and I just blissfully tune everyone else out. No one comes near.

Well, do you think it would help if I tried making small talk about the stuff I'm thinking about? I tend to find that a converstion about anything trails off into something else every time, and this often frustrates me. When a group of people are having a conversation about something that I'm interested in and/or can relate to, then I'll join in. However, if that conversation trails off into something boring, then that's when I'll usually tune out. This, for me, usually makes for an unsatisfying conversation, and usually that's why I'm so bad at group talk. Conversation switches topics really quickly, so I find it hard to really want to keep up. And of course I'm not going to ask, "what are you guys talking about now?', because people find it insulting when you weren't paying attention.

Oh yes, definitely.



Yep, conversations do do that. Sometimes it's because you've bored your fellow conversationalists or taken over the conversation; sometimes it's just cause that's what happens.

The word BOREDOM keeps coming up. And so I think it might be useful to turn some of your attention to that... it's obviously a major stumbling block in your ability to relate to/with others.

Major bad news here... much of life is boring and tedious as H***. There are a couple/three different approaches, one of which you have down... go into your head and have a nice time.

Next approach... find something in the company you're with to occupy your attention. Facial expressions, clothing construction, voice tones.... whatever it takes to stay in the room, as it were.

Next approach.... developing a tolerance for being bored out of your gourd. I think my zazen practice has been a big help with that... helped me develop the patience to just sit still and keep coming back to the moment, not go off in my head with my stories. In zazen one puts one's attention on the breath, and that's a handy technique for conversation... attending the breath and physical experience while keeping a shred of attention on what is being said so you don't lose the thread and know to smile or look concerned in the right places.

Keeps all sorts of people happy.

Being with NTs can be hard work because of this conversation topic switching. Many don't give the one topic sufficient time to be processed, before switching onto something else. Talking to fill time. Talking for 'talkings sake'. It takes a lot of effort to follow their conversation, including switches.

However if you are still working on the old topic, and come up with a new insight on that (within a reasonable time), the group can appreciate that. Stand up comedians often work this way. There will be an impromtu (sp?) topic at the start (audience member shouts 'conger eal') and then later comedian will weave that into his/her joke(s). NTs love this, and roll about laughing. So do the same in your group conversation bring back the old topic with a new insight, and they'll listen.

From earlier: you might want to think twice about vocalising thoughts on women's boyfriends looks as they see their other half as a direct reflection on themselves, and thus your comment in her mind might have been taken as a direct comment on her......did you ever think she saw more in him, than just how he looked?

So she was just trying to insult you, and put her mind to it (very unattractive trait). Try not to linger on her words, as they were said in the wrong frame of mind.

Another problem I have: My sister claims that I judge people before they can get to know me, and that they are as uncomfortable around me as I am around them. The town I live in gets a lot of tourism (I live in Maine, in the Lakes Region), so naturally I see a lot of vacationing yuppies around town. I've never felt comfortable around those kinds of people, and maybe I'm being paranoid, but they probably don't like me either. How could they, considering my appearance: long hair, black t-shirts; I feel that people in general look at me and see me as potentially threatening to them. I definitely have no desire to harm anyone. But in public, around tons and tons of people, I have no confidence, I feel pressure, and it feels like people are immediately judging what they see as a social deviant.

Well, as you describe it, it does sound like "the angry young man" persona... very popular among disaffected teens and 20-somethings of both the NT and AS type brain. Let's face it, there's lots to be disaffected by... It's age-appropriate, for leisure wear I wouldn't worry about it. If you're still dressing like that at 35... well, it's a little like a 50-something woman in a mini skirt... ugh. What dream world does she live in?

And I'm way on board with the snap judgements; I do them too. Everyone does. It's a lizard brain sort of thing... a basic survival instinct, but supposedly we, as a species, have evolved more lobes in our brains and should be able to override the inner lizard. I've seen the pictures, I've studied and evaluated the facts, there does seem to be some pretty good evidence that there are more evolved structures in the brain (this is said sarcastically), but it can be hard to see it sometimes in both ourselves and others. And judging people on the way they dress is as old as time. Stupid and we all still do it.

So--and I think this is an Aspie-style thing--I actually check my assumptions and snap judgements. Is it true that all yuppies are self-centered, greedy, spoiled, status-conscious, simpletons who think 'Lost' is a piece of creative genius? Have I ever met anyone dressed in a polo shirt and khakis that seemed to have something on the ball, even if I didn't care about their interest? If I put on those clothes, would I think the same way. I mean, have a little fun with it, because you're smart enough to see that it's all bogus BS... Just like each one of us, you've got to get to know someone a bit before you can decide there's really nothing in it for you to know them. Clothing may say something about the man, but it doesn't really say much.

Does the blackness of your wardrobe convey your sensitivity or intelligence? Does it do anything to show people your deep concern for kindness? Just because someone wears a crewcut, does that really mean you have nothing to learn from him about how to be a decent, generous, compassionate human? Some of the kindest people I have known have been in the military... but it scared the holy crap out of me to go near them initially.

Really, we short change ourselves when we follow to the inner lizard. So just be aware of it, and question it when there's time and space. Prove it, little lizard.

Sometimes I also feel as though my life growing up has had something to do with my lack of confidence as a young adult. In high school, I had practically no friends. I hung out with a group of goths, stoners, otakus and general losers, just because I had the foolish idea that, being outcasts like me, I could relate to them. How wrong I was. The truth was, I was an outcast among outcasts, and those kids probably could have cared less about me. By the time I reached my senior year, I couldn't believe that I had stuck with those burnouts for so long, and hated myself for neglecting kids who, instead of being my friends, were people I scorned, thinking them to be too preppy for my tastes. I spiraled downward into depression, at some points even considering suicide. I saw other kids doing productive things, having fun with their friends and doing things that I now wished I could have done instead of going home every day to mindlessly surf the internet and look for stupid websites to waste my time with.
Not only that, but my home life became more and more disheartening to me as time went on. Just recently my dad lost his job at the Turnpike. Since then, he's just been binging on alcohol, leaving my younger sisters to themselves so they can go do as they please, whether it be drugs, alcohol or sex with boys. They're crying out for attention, but Dad doesn't care about anyone, not even himself. Hell, they could get pregnant and he wouldn't notice.
For most of my high school years, he's claimed he doesn't want to be an overbearing parent who polices his children, and that he wanted to be our "friend". I just keep thinking he was full of crap the entire time. My dad sleeps in all day, spends nearly all his time watching TV, and complains about everything all the time. All of last year, the more I thought about it, the more I realized how big of a factor he was in my lack of success as an adult. I was so depressed during my senior year of high school, my grades plummeted and I nearly flunked out of school. I had to ask my uncle, who is an English professor at the university, to help me in gaining admittance to the school, as I found that I didn't even have enough credits to do so.
I went through the past year pitying myself, seeing other kids with their accomplishments. A good number of them went to private schools, and a lot of them had various activities they did in addition to school. Hell, one girl I knew was a music major, yet still found the time for other productive activities such as campaigning as part of the campus' College Democrats. All that time I thought, "What have I been doing with my life?" I thought of my dad, and the incredibly negative influence he had on me as a teen. All those years, when I sat on my ass, surfing the web for useless information, he never once told me to go do something productive with my life, like getting a job, working harder in school, or joining up with some after-school groups, or even finding some friends that weren't a bunch of lame-ass potheads. No encouragement, not so much as a push from him.
Even now, I find that I can't even get up at a decent hour. I find that I'm going to bed at 9am and waking up at 5pm, something that displeases nearly all my close family members who are so fired up over my chance at success. Yesterday my brother called me, and when I told him that I wasn't getting a good night's sleep, and I had wasted nearly an entire month without looking for a job, he flipped his s**t. He accused me of not even caring about my own happiness, and that perhaps I didn't want to be successful. He then said that he shouldn't have been flipping out, as there was nothing to fret over, and hung up. And this brings me back to the social gaffes I mentioned earlier. Maybe I'm too damned depressed to change my ways, is that it?