Thinking people like you....finding out they don't?

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Some plain speaking, there. I have been on both sides of this one, and think it's like this: Normal person doesn't understand the behaviour of the other person, or feels threatened by it or both, but is too polite to be downright rude to them. The other person interprets this as the normal person liking them.

As I say, I've been on both sides. Once I used to know someone at work who travelled on the same bus to and from work as me. They would sit next to me and try and engage me in conversation. I just wanted to be left alone, but was too polite to just give them the brush-off. I was afraid that if I encouraged them too much, they wouldn't leave me a lone.

The other side of the coin was when someone else at work would stand and chat in the corridor. I thought they like me, but once overheard them saying what a weirdo I was, what planet was he on, etc. At one time I made the mistake of confronting them about it, their embarrassment merely adding to their dislike of me. Now I just fume inside but leave it - and usually come away with a strong resolve to act 'more normal' in future.

I don't usually assume people actively like me, but I assume they are all right with me - just neutral - and then find out that they actually have huge problems with me and come out with a tirade one day about how rude and nasty I've been and how much I've 'hurt' them.

I think it is similar to what sgrannel said, and they were actually giving out lots of signals indicating their displeasure with the situation and had been for a long time, but we were simply not aware of these and did not realize anything was wrong. Because the signals were so obvious to an NT person, they could not believe that anyone could just not notice, and thought we were being deliberately rude and uncaring.

It's one of the worst feelings, for me at least. It just feels so disappointing to think that someone does like me or that they are my friend and then learn that they really don't. That's why it's so hard for me to really trust someone when they are being nice because I don't know what their true intentions are. I'm also very paranoid that people don't like me or don't want to be me around me. It's definitely a terrible feeling so I can relate.

Hovis, that used to happen to me a lot. Nowadays I'm very careful to observe any subtle hints that someone may be pushing me away, trying to distance, and I always take into consideration the possibility that they may be trying to push me away and I'm not noticing, so it doesn't happen anymore. Overall, I check if THEY initiate contact/closeness, and if they don't, I assume they hate me and are putting up a parade of liking me.

Greentea, I even more often have the opposite problem, where I don't notice what I've later found out were subtle indicators that the person wants to become closer or more friendly, or wants me to show an interest in them, and then when I don't respond because I don't see these hints, I begin to be accused of being 'hurtful'. They assume that I was perfectly aware and chose to deliberately snub/reject them, while the truth is that I did not know that any of this was going on. I take an interaction for someone simply being polite, and respond appropriately, and am then told that I rejected their offer of friendship. Or I'm told that I hurt them by not caring what was wrong, or not showing any interest in an aspect of their lives, when I had no idea that anything was wrong or that, because they never introduced the topic themselves, that they wanted me to ask.

About being more alert to people wanting more closeness with you: any initiative they take is a sign. Initiative is the key here. From asking to marry you through to tuning in to you rather than someone else when both you and the other person happen to talk at the same time. If we pay attention, we Aspies CAN decipher all these things. It does take a lot of purpose from us and constantly being on watch, but if someone interests you and you want to know if it's mutual, then turn on this kind of observation of initiatives. Same when you're talking to someone: do they start new topics themselves or just react/respond to what you're saying? If you observe these things, you'll never be taken by surprise again. Since NTs don't converse for the sake of exchanging information but for the sake of relating to someone they want to relate to, it's easy to know where you stand with them by observing their initiatives.

Re being more alert to what they want us to pay attention to and show an interest in: NTs don't expect you to guess about complex issues. All you have to do (but you MUST do it) is go over a list of issues with them when you talk to them each time, inquiring and showing an interest: their health - their work - their family - their studies - their pets - their home - their still unsolved bureacratic issues - their romantic relationship - their weekend - their vacation. Nothing more is expected! I've given you here a list, but of course you have to cross out and add to it according to the specific person! I learned this over 20 years ago, so nowadays it's second nature to me, I don't have to remind myself to do it, and I actually find it very enjoyable, because you get to hear all kinds of stories that just may come in handy one day if you face a similar issue. As they tell the story, you have to make compassionate sounds of sadness or joy, depending on what they're telling. Nobody will feel hurt anymore if you do this - even if you didn't pinpoint the exact issue in their lives that they wanted you to take an interest in.

Just for the sake of feedback only: I've indeed noticed that sometimes you like ignore a person reaching out to you - I've felt confused and a bit hurt myself. And also for the sake of feedback only: I don't share much of my insight anymore, I've become a bit tired, but I've taken the time to do it here, so that's the kind of thing you have to observe - whether a person is taking a little extra initiative / time with you; that means they're at least a bit interested in you as a person.

I think you've offered some EXCELLENT insights here into how to maintain cordial relationships with NTs, Greentea. Jenny

Yay, I got another one right!! ! Thank you, Jenny!

Thing is that if I observe what I think might be signals that someone is starting to not like me, I don't know how to react to it.. it makes me nervous and then I have even more trouble interacting with them, so it increases their dislike of me.

It's kinda lose/lose both ways... If I don't realize it, that's bad, and if I do, there's nothing positive I can do about it.

But see, for me, that's academic. (See, I'm gonna use that term everywhere, now. )
I think, at this point in my life, anyways, I have a THEORY of mind... actually I have many, many theories of mind, which is part of my problem, I guess. But they're all theory/academic. Even if I notice something, and recognize it, I just never seem able to respond properly in the correct amount of time. It's not that NTs have theory of mind, it's that it's integrated. Many of them have far less theory than most of the people here-- we're the ones that spend all this time talking about it, we've all developed lots of theories and lots of academic knowledge on the human mind in general. The theory of mind that NTs have, however, they can actually apply. They pick it up, read it, and react to it in the correct way, without putting too much thought into it. If we take the time to process it, the person we're talking to will have already decided that we're thinking up some kind of deception, because the responding correctly is supposed to come quickly and naturally.

Maggie, it gets better with practice. But of course, you're right, it'll never be instinctive in us. We're Aspies for a reason!!

Re how to behave with someone who you've detected is an anti-fan of you in disguise: I become same with them. Like for like. I start seeing them as a piece of furniture in the room which I don't like and I'll never use, yet I remain respectful and corteous (no need to scratch that awful coffee-table if you don't like it).

Yea, but if the coffee table is that awful, and you're gonna get rid of it, and you don't think you can sell it.. then if you're having a bad day and need to release some anger, may as well take it out onto the driveway and smash it..

(I once had a therapist who recommended buying cheap dishes at yard sales for that purpose)

Never treat people like objects, you will turn into a monster...

Here I go agreeing with you again, Greentea. (This is becoming a habit. ) If I can sense that someone doesn't like me or I don't like them much, I will go to extra trouble to be polite and pleasant to that person. This is partly because I see it as a moral responsibility to treat others courteously, but it also allows me to look very virtuous if that person then attacks me in any way. I'm not sure whether this is an example of a bit of sneaky NT manipulation or just my own personal response. And actually, often the hostile person eventually modifies their behaviour, anyway- it's hard to be unpleasant to someone who is consistently respectful towards you.

I also agree with you, Azulene- treating people like objects has historically led to atrocities- people ALWAYS matter, including difficult people. Jenny

Pretty much everyone pretends to like me when they directly talk to me.

But it's very much pretend most of the time. No returned phone calls, offers to hang out (or accepting mine), and if the group that I knew them from is inactive, I basically can't count on ever seeing or talking to them again.


I spend about 94% of my time alone these days. There are two once-a-week groups that I go to, and that's it. With my sleep being such a wreck, it's difficult to even keep a conversation much of the time, which makes it nearly impossible to add to the social network, or find the energy to consistently go to anything new.

It's funny talking about this stuff on an Asperger's forum. My sleep issues are so terrible that my Asperger's doesn't even make a difference these days.

i could not care about them and they could not care about me.

a match made in heaven.