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Tory_canuck
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03 Aug 2009, 4:31 am

Spokane_Girl wrote:
Tory_canuck wrote:

In high school, the vice principal said, if a bully harasses you, you have every right to give em a good arse kickin and if they complain, I will tell them they deserved it.She said she didnt care if she loses her job, because nobody deserves to be bullied and that she knows how it feels because she was bullied as a kid.She is in her seventies and she says if she loses her job, she has a good pension and retirement to look forward to.



That was a very cool principal you had.



She is a great woman and I admire her.She is a devout Ukrainian Catholic.She is five foot 2 and in her seventies, yet the bullies fear her.She is dedicated to job and says the only way she will leave teaching, is in a coffin or if she got fired for standing up for those who were bullied and/or allowing them to defend themselves.She always says, no matter what, regardless of how much a someone suffers at the hands of those who torment them, God will always be on their (victim) side and in the end, the bullies will face judgment and they will be judged by God the same way they judged those they bullied.If the bullies never face karma in life, they shall face their maker upon the day of eternal judgment and shall they be found to have been malicious and dont repent and make right, they will face an eternity of wrath in the firey realms of hell.


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paddy26
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03 Aug 2009, 6:32 am

Caterina wrote:
The dirty little secret about bullying is that authority figures often see people who commit acts of agression as powerful and the victims of that agression as weak and worthless.


I think that's a more realistic way of looking at it. The frustrating thing is that people with AS are not weak or worthless and can achieve great things which would benefit a lot of people if given a bit of space and support. I think we just give of the signals that we are because we overreact to things emotionally and as a result are not able to deal with the situation in a calm and logical way which is what we are more suited to.



Cicely
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04 Aug 2009, 8:29 pm

Useless advice given by people who were most likely never bullied or harrassed. Ignoring people doesn't make them stop. I've known harrassers who take silence as a sign that they're successfully being hurtful.



Apple_in_my_Eye
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04 Aug 2009, 8:58 pm

paddy26 wrote:
The frustrating thing is that people with AS are not weak or worthless and can achieve great things which would benefit a lot of people if given a bit of space and support. I think we just give of the signals that we are because we overreact to things emotionally and as a result are not able to deal with the situation in a calm and logical way which is what we are more suited to.


Also, people typically engage in a lot of bravado and other forms of social signaling that is interpreted as competence. ASD folk are not good at that sort of image management, and that can ironically sometimes be more disabling that an actual lack of ability.



Benjamming
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05 Aug 2009, 2:24 am

Guys, I know its horrible. I hated every day of high school. But sooner or later its over, and the life gets better. To quote Penny Arcade, "Out there, we run sh**." Someone bullies/assaults you? You have the law on your side. You can get restraining orders against people. What's even better is that by lack of effort/karmic justice they wind up with lousy jobs, partners they hate but are tied to for the babies that keep appearing because they missed that lecture about condoms, and only looking forward to the weekend so they can drink away their sorrows.
"Just Ignore Them" is something that only works if you're zen enough to truly ignore them. Pretending to ignore them is a different story, and that doesn't work because a bully can see through it. They are masters at reading people, so you have to assume that they can read emotions that you (especially as an aspie) don't know you're projecting.
One thing I will suggest is to make friends with someone bigger/tougher or even just with more self confidence than you. I was lucky to have a friend who was the 'Charismatic Rebel Without a Cause', which didn't buy me popularity, but it bought respite from bullies. Partially because this guy (who, incidentally, is still my closest, dearest friend) wasn't one to shy away from a fight, and partially because it gave me an identity of sorts.
Other than that, spend as much time as you can in the library!



raisedbyignorance
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05 Aug 2009, 7:26 pm

I just love how I'm told to do this all the time, yet if I do anything bullyish or mean to them...it's a big f*cking deal and I am required to apologized for it. :roll:

My middle school and college experiences in a nutshell.



Aspiewriter
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06 Aug 2009, 2:55 pm

I remember that advice being given by my parents, especially my Dad I think. Or my Mom. They both said it really. When I was a kid, I was the butt of so many jokes, one being the proverbial KICK ME sign on my back. The other being the target of the ball whenever we played Soccer or Kickball or Volleyball. Dodgeball was the worst. Or when each team captain had to pick someone to be on their team, guess who was picked last? Both team captains had looks on their faces like I had the plague or something. Being the nerd or the quiet one or the weird one or the weird artistic one... Not a good thing. And I try and ignore them, but inside I'm crying and shouting out, "Just leave me alone!" But outwardly, I'm saying nothing.

Nowadays, you notice that "nerds" are shown on TV in a different light? It's like we're slowly taking over the world or something. Did we win in the end?



Jkid
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06 Aug 2009, 8:08 pm

I keep getting that same advice when I was verbally harassed constantly. It did absolutely nothing, because everyone was doing it. Useless advice ever.



gina-ghettoprincess
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07 Aug 2009, 11:38 am

When my mother said this to me, I replied, "That's like telling the Tibetans to ignore the Chinese."


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ZEGH8578
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07 Aug 2009, 11:43 am

my mother told me to ignore them

my dad told me to swing for their mouth and kick their berries.

i ended up kicking berries and you know what?
it worked.

:I


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bdhkhsfgk
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07 Aug 2009, 1:24 pm

They do not KNOW what it is like to have AS, i can hardly think they have been through the same, and they do need to think for a few seconds what it would be like if they were socially outcasted and looked down upon, even though i know that social ingorancee
is unlike nts the easiest form for bullying for them to go through.



marshall
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07 Aug 2009, 1:49 pm

Caterina wrote:
The dirty little secret about bullying is that authority figures often see people who commit acts of agression as powerful and the victims of that agression as weak and worthless.

In psychology, this is called the "just world phenomenon." People tend to believe that those who get attacked deserve to be attacked. This phenomenon was notably demonstrated after the Holocaust of WWII when a reporter visiting a concentration camp mused that the people interned in the camp must have been vicious criminals to have been treated in such an abominable fashion.

The phrase "just ignore them" is meant to convey to the victim that, "I cannot be bothered to do anything to protect you because you are not worthy of protection."

What authority figures need to do is to recognize that they are trapped in the "just world phenomenon" and take measures to stop the bullies' behavior, since it is damaging and often life threatening to the victim (I and many aspies I know have contemplated or attempted suicide on multiple occasions as a result of bullying).

Man that's f***ed up. I can't stand reading this kind of cynical stuff. If this "just world phenomenon" is truly accepted by a majority of people, not just sociopaths, then I have no respect for the majority of people. I refuse to believe they are conscious beings like me. If they suddenly dropped dead like flies it would bother me about as much if they were.



UrchinStar47
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07 Aug 2009, 4:11 pm

Caterina wrote:
The dirty little secret about bullying is that authority figures often see people who commit acts of agression as powerful and the victims of that agression as weak and worthless.

In psychology, this is called the "just world phenomenon." People tend to believe that those who get attacked deserve to be attacked. This phenomenon was notably demonstrated after the Holocaust of WWII when a reporter visiting a concentration camp mused that the people interned in the camp must have been vicious criminals to have been treated in such an abominable fashion.

The phrase "just ignore them" is meant to convey to the victim that, "I cannot be bothered to do anything to protect you because you are not worthy of protection."

I'm afraid it's probably a lot less convoluted than that.

It probably is a valid advice when it comes to NT-s because, once put into context of how NT-s work, they can probably slide trough the situation on instincts alone, when relaxed. For them it's actually an euphemism for 'don't take it personal, it's just a way of having fun, join in in some (in context) socially acceptable way', or something like that.

It's not so with aspies. We take that advice only literally, with consistently horrible results.

Simply put, their advice has a boatload of implied meaning that we don't get.

In aspie terms, what they are actually trying to say is 'pay attention, find an opening for friendly contact and exploit it', which just happens to be the opposite of the standard meaning of the words they used. No wonder it isn't very helpful!



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07 Aug 2009, 7:18 pm

People who say 'just ignore them and they will stop' are giving crappy advice and have, more than likely, never EVER been the victims of some terrible bullying. In my past experience, ignoring them doesn't make it stop. The only way it stops is to remove yourself from the situation completely which can sometimes be extremely difficult, if not impossible. It makes me wonder why they don't just keep their mouths shut if they can't say anything useful or why they don't do something to help the victim a bit more.


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grinningcat
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10 Aug 2009, 9:47 pm

Fiz wrote:
People who say 'just ignore them and they will stop' are giving crappy advice and have, more than likely, never EVER been the victims of some terrible bullying.


My sentiments exactly. Ignoring someone is almost the same as cowering in the bully handbook. They get off on it. I have been bullied by teachers, and have had teachers encourage little troglodytes to bully me in their "kids can work it out for themselves" attitude (which goes away when you start defending yourself, then they step in to stop things, sigh). One teacher I have always thought highly of was my grade 8 science teacher. I had my own personal bully most of the year - he liked to whisper rude and lewd things in my ear, he actually pushed me down stairs and locked a door on me while I was in a full leg cast, plus a few other things. Ignoring did no good. What did a WORLD of good was screaming at him in science class, after he had whispered something extremely vile in my ear. I had had it. After screaming, the teacher backed me up :heart: He recognized a bully. Most of the other teachers I had just said "well, what did YOU do to them?", i.e. the victim must deserve the punishment. That kid stopped being such a twit to me, once he realized that I wasn't going to get into trouble and that I was fully prepared to embarrass him in public like that.

They exist after school, though. My aunt is a good example. If I ignore her, she picks until there is a reaction. Last week, my mom and grandmother came down. My door bell rang, it was my aunt, and I was making my way down the stairs, trying to finish the thought I was saying so I was slower than I might have been. She rang the bell a second time and I called "I am coming down, just a sec!" I opened the door, and my aunt looked like she was going to hit me. She walked in and started screaming about how rude I was, that she wasn't going to take it, how she heard us yapping upstairs, how I was deliberately leaving her on the door step and she "knew" how long it took to get down stairs. I tried to walk away up the stairs again, she followed, screaming at me still. I kept saying "stop it stop it". She kept yelling. My mom said "you two stop fighting" - ME?! !? The only thing I was saying was "stop it". I was walking away from a mad woman who was going to tell me what was what, but wasn't particularly interested in listening to me at all. About half way up the stairs I turned around and ordered my aunt out of my house - THAT she heard. She left, and took my grandmother with her, and my mom stayed as she was staying with me. A couple of days later my grandmother called and asked if I was still in my "snit". So, she had taken the bully's side, even though she had a front row seat to what happened. She wasn't about to tell her daughter to smarten up, I guess, not her favourite one, anyway. They wanted me to come up to my aunt's house, and I had something to go to so I said I wasn't going up there. They thought I was lying - they kept grilling my mother about what I was "really" doing. I may have gone about it in the wrong way, but it was time SOMEONE stood up and screamed back - we have all been taking her attitude for years because "it is her way" and she is "only joking". I can't see how it is joking when everyone in the family doesn't get the joke, and I do know that if a stranger had come into my house screaming like that, the police would have been called, she is lucky she is a relative. No, sometimes you have to raise your voice and scream, just to get people to look at you and take notice of the cruelty, I think.

Sad though the story has morphed already, I am the "bad guy", so to speak. Oh well, if she is looking for an apology, I won't ever have to see her again. If I ignored her, I would have given her permission to treat me like a bad dog who had just done something vile on the carpet. Maybe she will take a good hard look at her life - and perhaps I will see a unicorn tomorrow, but who knows. What I do know is she knows now I am not above kicking her to the curb. ha, take that bully-dom! :lol:


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10 Aug 2009, 10:18 pm

Even more sickening than people who never had to deal with bullies and tell others to "just ignore it" are people who WERE bullied and are still fine with letting others be tormented because it's "just part of life" or some load of crap like that. They have really let the bullies win by internalizing their message, and I can't help but feel contempt for such people.

Me? My better way of dealing with it was to act scary. The word "Columbine" only came to my attention after I had already gotten in trouble a couple of times for lashing out, but once I realized what school teachers and popular kids were afraid of, I played up my "potential school shooter" traits for all they were worth. Dark clothes, violent drawings, dropped hints (though not exactly "threats") that I had a knife collection, stuff like that. Add that to the fact that I was already pretty unpredictable, stubborn and reckless, and was completely unrepentant when I lashed out even if I got in trouble for it, and in a couple years people didn't want to screw with me.

Not to mention a couple years after that, when everyone knew who got the best grades, who the only National Merit Scholar at the school was, who controlled the student paper and who was the only person in my class to be going to a prestigious private college, a lot of the same people were lining up to kiss my ass in hopes that I would proofread their paper or write an article they wanted or something like that. The others just left me alone for the most part, because no one could really hope to mess with me with any success.