What makes somebody a tattletale?

Post Reply New Topic

No, the entire sentiment holds _all_the_time_ unless as I said, someone is in danger of PHYSICAL injury. It has nothing to do with if the rules are stupid and arbitrary. Nobody likes a rat, at all, ever, for any reason. It makes sense to me simply because *nobody likes a rat*. If somebody's behavior is bothering you because you think it's wrong, or it's illegal, or it breaks some rule or other, then go away from them and don't think about them. Don't run and tell on them and rat them out like a little whiney Cindy Brady. Nobody_likes_a_rat. Simple as that. The only time it's justified is if someone is going to get PHYSICALLY hurt. Otherwise, handle your own problems and let other people handle theirs.

Would YOU want to hang out with or be friends with somebody who TELLS on other people?

PaganMom

I'm not totally sure that we're talking about the same thing, because I'm having a lot of trouble understanding what you mean. For one thing, in reference to a discussion community, anybody in authority is also a part of the community--not some separate group like the staff in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.
And usually, if someone is upsetting one person they're upsetting other people too. Also, like I pointed out before, on a forum sometimes a moderator (as in a peer, a member of the community, somebody who regularly participates in discussions anyway) just posting, without doing anything else, will calm down the atmosphere and prevent bullying.

My question is whether YOU would want to post in a discussion forum where trolls are allowed to run wild bullying members. How would a support forum like that run? There'd be no point, because you wouldn't be able to get support.

It's not like anything even happens anywhere that's not perfectly visible to begin with. Nobody thinks they're doing anything secret.

Putting nasty phrases like "nobody likes a rat" and "whiny little Cindy Brady" to the concept doesn't explain it, it just makes it hard to respond to because you're not expressing anything other than contempt.. you're not giving a reason why. Nothing is a physical issue online, but we all know that words can hurt just as much, and more. And that there are lots of people who post things for no other reason than to upset people.
I still don't understand at all where you're coming from, because you're not using examples, and you're speaking in a generality that seems like it's just a statement of contempt for any authority, without saying anything about why. Something doesn't have to be an immediate physical issue to harm people, and it certainly doesn't have to be an immediate physical issue to completely destroy the effectiveness of a support and discussion forum.
You're not explaining anything by repeating those mantras, it sounds more like you're name-calling, which is really confusing me, because it seems aggressive in a way that I wouldn't have connected with you, from what I've seen so far. Which is why I'm thinking there's something I'm missing in this. Is there some specific situation that you think of when you envision the whole concept of telling someone about a problem, something nasty someone did?

OK, I didn't know you meant a forum specific tattletale situation. In a forum, I would imagine that if there are trolls, and they are bothering people, then sure, you get the mods to boot them. I thought you meant more of a in general tattletale, not a forum tattletale. Now, if somebody is trolling in a forum, then pointing that out isn't a problem. That's simply keeping the peace, just like throwing the drunk out of the party who crashed it to begin with. That isn't a problem. I was talking in general, face to face life, telling on people. Other people have put responses relating to real life other than online life, so I was adressing that aspect of it.

Now, I wasn't being nasty at all. Not one bit. I was talking about people who will run and tell on someone in real life, face to face life, noninternet life, meatlife (tm Stella) etc. Not online forums. And the people who do that, run and tell on others in real life etc, I do hold in contempt, so it probably came out that way.

Online forums etc, yeah. I would say that if somebody is trolling, if they are spamming, etc, then sure. Tell the mods about it. However, if it's someone who has just hurt your feelings or said something you didn't like but seems to be otherwise posting on topic and not there to flame or troll, then I would just handle it myself with them or killfile them rather than tell the moderator. It would really depend on what they did. I equate them to the party crasher who ends up obnoxiously drunk. You throw him out when he crosses the line. Try and ignore as long as you can, but when it gets to be too much, out the door he goes. Same with trolls.

At least that's my take. What I had been talking about was real life ratting on people. Which is a whole different situation

PaganMom

Okay, I'm going to reply to myself, because I think I've figured this out. PaganMom, I hope you don't mind if I quote what you said in another thread.. it kinda explains my confusion.

So in other words.. you're surrounded by uptight, right-wing freaks with giant sticks up their butts. You said in that same thread that you live in a dry county.. so someone could be turned in for alcohol too. I don't think the mentality of what ratting someone out in an area like that is could be transferred into much else, because the definitions of "wrong" and "bad" are so skewed.. Can those definitions of "telling" can really apply to anything that I might mention to somebody who goes by the name sinsboldly? (And who I confide in about other things anyways, her patience is quite extraordinary.)


And on that.. why would you want to be friends with someone who protected serious criminals? Would you rather be friends with someone who turned in a rapist, or someone who protected a rapist? Someone who turned in a con artist, or someone who protected a con artist, enabling the person to go on to ruin more lives? Someone who approached an authority about a bully, or someone who went along with blaming the victim? Yea, I'd definitely want to be friends with the "rat." (Although I had a pet rat who was my best friend in middle school, so I'm pretty partial to rats anyways. Rats are quite great pets, they're not vicious and crazy like hamsters are.)

Well, that was part of it, but doesn't that contribute to the "depends on the situation" thing.. which is why I didn't think it made sense that you were saying "No, that's always bad" Which I addressed in my other post that I was writing while you were writing this one.. lol
(um.. I'm not sure what it means to "killfile" somebody.)
I pointed out the thing about governments and schools usually being in the authority-you-probably-shouldn't-trust category...

edit: Oh, also, in the talking-to-a-forum-moderator, I'd also find it significant that they're long-time active members of the forum.. people who have insight into other members, and might have good explanations as who why someone might say something that might seem upsetting.. especially if at the time you were feeling too upset by it to address the person directly.

Actually, it would depend on what the criminal did to begin with. A rapist or a child abuser or molester, no way. Turn them in, or beat them to death instead, fine by me. But if the guy had been selling weed, or maybe parole violation or something like that, then yeah I would be friends with somebody who protected him. I sure would. If he was a relative of mine or a friend of mine I WOULD protect him as well. A bully, I wouldn't blame the victim, I would teach the victim how to defend themselves. I was a victim of bullies for a long time until someone taught me, so I'll pay that forward gladly.

See, I LOATHE the cops and the judicial system. I've seen some idiotic displays of so called justice and to tell you the truth, common sense is nowhere to be found. I have absolutely no repsect for cops, the law, or any rules whatsoever. Now, I do obey rules when I feel they are there for a good reason, such as to keep people from getting hurt, but I could care less about most beurocratic (sp?) bullsh*t. I wish we lived in the old West days, where you take care of yourself and your own and only get the law involved when you can't handle things. That's the kind of common sense society I would like to live in. I use common sense about things, and respect common sense. The so called 'law' doesn't.

And as for actual rodent rats, ::shiver:: nooooo. lol! In the winter we get them in the house. Oh Gods, its awful. There is this one mouse that I had tried to catch over and over. Finally, I brought the cat in and he got it but I saw it ON THE KITCHEN COUNTER once! No way! I do like gerbils and hamsters and guinea pigs though. Rats in a cage as pets are ok, but if I see one running through the house it's in a whole other catagory in my head. Nasty! But I can pet one if it's a pet. I used to know a girl who had a pet rat. He would ride on her shoulder. She named him Ratso Rizzo lol!

PaganMom

Right.. but someone selling weed would fall into that "stupid, arbitrary rules" category I first mentioned in responding to your reaction to the whole concept of telling something.
On the bullying thing, though, at this point things are so crazy with the zero tolerance violence thing that someone can get in just as much or more trouble for defending themselves as they can for attacking someone in the first place. There absolutely HAS to at least be documentation that the bullying was happening to begin with.


And that fits exactly with my original conclusion your sentiment on telling something applies only when those in authority are nasty, stupid, or caught up in bureaucracy. Now I'm really confused as to why you contradicted that to begin with.


Hamsters are vicious, insane creatures! Hamsters BITE, and they are mean!
Pet rats are much, much nicer than hamsters. But when I think of a rat, I think of something more like this:
Which I suppose doesn't bear too much resemblance to what you think of when you hear "rat."
My rat rode on my shoulder too. They like to do that. Her name was Puppy. She was pretty much my only friend at the time... (That's not a picture of her, just a random hooded rat I found in google images... and then got caught up for awhile looking at all the cute rats..)

I don't know how to divide up the quotes to answer them individualy, so I just didn't quote lol.

OK, I'll try to explain. I agree with very few laws out there. I also would overlook the fact that someone broke a particular law I agreed with if they were my friend (except in cases of rape or child abuse or something like that). Here is an example. I agree that armed robbery should be illegal. However, if a friend or relative of mine told me that they robbed a store or something, then of course I would do what I could to help them destroy evidence or hide or change their appearance etc. Even though I disagreed with the action, I would try and help them avoid prosecution. I also really dislike prison and jail and unless they are a child hurter, a rapist or a serial killer or somebody who killed someone innocent, if I see someone on tv who has escaped from prison, I hope they don't get caught. I guess I simply hate authority so much that I want to see it topple and suffer extreme embarrassment at any and every chance. Wierd huh? Especially since I wanted to be a cop when I was young and stupid.

As for rats, well pet rats are cute. Hamsters don't always bite. My daughter had a pet hamster for almost a year and he was a sweet little thing. He kept getting loose and we had to lock the dogs up in my room for fear they would eat him. Once he got out and we looked and looked all over her room and had given him up for lost and then she found him, stuck in her softball trophy! It had this little cut out shape and he had tried to crawl through it and got stuck. Right there on her dresser and we had been looking on the floor! He finally died one day, in his cage. Now we just have the big dog, the best puppy EVER and an outside cat. The other two outside cats we have defected to a neighbors yard who has better cat food.

PaganMom

I just divide it up because then it's neater and more organized and you can see what I'm referring to.. you can do it by highlighting the chunks you want and then clicking the quote thing at the top, and then copying the ="personsname" into the front part of the bbcode in the automatic quote. Or just copy the whole opening quote bit, and then just type in the ending bit where you want the quote to stop.
(Not that you have to or anything.. just figured I'd tell you how.)



But even if you didn't want your friend/family member to be caught, you probably wouldn't consider someone who did turn them in for that to be a "rat" because the person did commit a real crime that you believe is wrong, you would just help them because you love them.


Those are kinda separate issues from whether or not people should be prosecuted and punished for those other crimes, though. The fact that the justice system is corrupt and the penal system doesn't work, doesn't mean that it's okay to let people go around committing crimes (particularly crimes that hurt others.)


Maybe not ALL hamsters bite, but they can be vicious creatures. A pet hamster is way more likely to bite you than a pet rat is.

Um, not to be a total brat, but you're still reinforcing my original theory that in addition to the bit about intention in "tattling" much of the definition of what's tattling and what's not depends on how you feel about whoever is in authority. If you think that there's someone fair and responsible with some kind of authority, the entire concept of tattling or ratting someone out breaks down. Say it was you-- you were the supreme governor of a small country where you could be familiar with everybody and know what was right and what was wrong, and where there were no stupid or arbitrary rules. (Yea, I know it's impossible, but hypothetically..) You'd be able to tell if someone was telling something just to be vindictive, and recognize the the teller was the the one doing something wrong, but they wouldn't really have much to tell unless the person they were telling on really had done something really bad. You'd also be able to tell if there was a dispute that could be resolved with the help of your authority, without actually punishing anybody. So in The Independent Bureaucracy-Free Common Sense Mini-State of PaganMom (did I cover all the bases there?), tattling would be a moot point.. right?
The only problem is that that's all theoretical...

Let's practice, children....

Snitches are b*****s who wind up in Ditches.

A community is only as strong as its' members. Speaking one's mind is not tattling; seeking out reasons to inform on another person might well be tattling, though. More an effect of intent than of action, at least in my mind.


M.

I agree with that very much, but intent is so subjective!
There was a thread awhile back about how a lot of people here, if accused of being dishonest, will feel guilty and like they were dishonest, even if they weren't. So even when I'm pretty sure that I know that my intentions are good, a lot of times I start second-guessing myself. Awhile ago I had a psychiatrist who I was seeing for the first time, and who never even allowed me to talk, accuse me of being an addict. I've since polled everyone who actually knows me, including my mother and Kris, who is one of those people who is hesitant to take ibuprofen if he has a headache, and they've all said that that doctor was just full of crap. But it still bothers me. I know it's not true, but it still drives me nuts.

I also have some questions about the word "whine" but I think I'm going to start a new thread on that, because it's a separate topic.

And it will always be subjective. You can ask ten people observing, and depending on their views on the action being taken, the person doing the action, their opinions of those in charge, and myriad other criteria... they will all have a different perspective on whether reporting what happened is responsible, or tattling, or somewhere in between.


M.

I know this thread was a while back, but I have found this link teaching 1st graders whether something is tattling or reporting. Clearly, if the safety of you or another person is at stake, then its reporting. If its something that technnically breaks the rules but no one is harmed or in danger of harm, then its tattling.

http://www.indianastandards.org/files/g ... orting.pdf