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"The world doesn't owe you anything."

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ialdabaoth
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31 Oct 2011, 1:17 pm

Ichinin wrote:
Republicans = A sociopatic political system.


Sociopathic, but amazingly effective.

Ichinin wrote:
I cant understand why people with actual right to vote choose them, just as much as i cannot understand either why people in China don't overthrown their corrupt backslapping, self-serving leaders.


Because people worship power, and power is good at protecting itself.

You are not owed a fair society.

You are not owed intelligence.



LookTwice
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31 Oct 2011, 4:33 pm

ialdabaoth wrote:
The world doesn't owe ...


What is the point of your post? Are you making a philosophical point? Or political/cultural ones? Or a personal one? (oh, and what is "the world"?)
Without a context, your statements are pretty much meaningless.
The truth of these statements depends on what you're talking about, they're not absolute but depend on the context and axioms you use for those statements.
For example, it's a twisted sophistry to say "the world doesn't owe you anything" and then make political decisions based on that, because how we decide to treat other people is a decision, not a natural constant. It's a decision to say: if someone doesn't have the ability to earn a living, then it's his own fault and he deserves to die. It's another decision to say: the strong should try to support the weak to create a healthy community. None is "scientifically correct" or inevitable.

Wolfheart wrote:
I think that's the beauty in it that many people don't see, that we're able to create our own luck and fate, that it's up to us to achieve what we have in life and look back on our life to take pride in what we did or find a sense of achievement. I wouldn't want everything handed to me on a silver platter because struggle makes us grow as people and forces us out of our comfort zone to go get these 'things'.


Someone growing up in Africa doesn't have the same chance to "create his own luck and fate" as you do. EVERYBODY gets handed things (material and of course "things" like health), and seeing that you are living in the UK, it's likely you were handed a lot more than the average person alive today. On the other hand, even people who seemingly get everything handed to them often struggle with life, they just struggle with slightly different things.



mar00
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31 Oct 2011, 5:05 pm

I think that people who do not think that they owe it so somebody are the roots of many if not most of the problems we face today. It seems that in capitalism everybody only owe it to themselves. If one dares to bring a life to this world one is responsible for that life. I think people tend not to understand how dependent on this *nonexistent* society they really are. Agreed @LookTwice



marshall
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02 Nov 2011, 9:40 am

mar00 wrote:
I think that people who do not think that they owe it so somebody are the roots of many if not most of the problems we face today. It seems that in capitalism everybody only owe it to themselves. If one dares to bring a life to this world one is responsible for that life. I think people tend not to understand how dependent on this *nonexistent* society they really are. Agreed @LookTwice

Yup. If everyone had this "nobody ows anyone else anything" attitude things would eventually collapse into anarchy and violence. It might already be happening.



Last edited by marshall on 02 Nov 2011, 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

marshall
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02 Nov 2011, 9:47 am

LookTwice wrote:
ialdabaoth wrote:
The world doesn't owe ...


What is the point of your post? Are you making a philosophical point? Or political/cultural ones? Or a personal one? (oh, and what is "the world"?)
Without a context, your statements are pretty much meaningless.
The truth of these statements depends on what you're talking about, they're not absolute but depend on the context and axioms you use for those statements.
For example, it's a twisted sophistry to say "the world doesn't owe you anything" and then make political decisions based on that, because how we decide to treat other people is a decision, not a natural constant. It's a decision to say: if someone doesn't have the ability to earn a living, then it's his own fault and he deserves to die. It's another decision to say: the strong should try to support the weak to create a healthy community. None is "scientifically correct" or inevitable.

I've never met a Social Darwinists or Randroid who could identify the fallacy of deriving an "aught" from an "is". However, even their notion of human nature is off. Humans are not as inherently selfish as they think. They merely project their own sociopathic nature on others.



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02 Nov 2011, 9:54 am

ialdabaoth wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
Life is what you make of it.
This assumes that you are owed an opportunity to "make" something of it.

No.

People make their own opportunities; but first, they must be ready to exploit the opportunities they make.


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b9
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02 Nov 2011, 10:25 am

the world no longer owes me $67,416.
today, my driver got a cheque for $25,600 from a shop in bondi, and also a check for $11,200 from heritage restaurant, so now the world only owes me $30,616.



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02 Nov 2011, 10:55 am

ialdabaoth wrote:
The world doesn't owe you loving parents.

The world doesn't owe you friends.

The world doesn't owe you a job.

The world doesn't owe you food, or shelter, or water, or warmth.

The world doesn't owe you fairness.

The world doesn't owe you happiness.

The world doesn't owe you a life.

So where does that put you?


Dead I guess.



DC
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02 Nov 2011, 11:13 am

ialdabaoth wrote:
The world doesn't owe you loving parents.

The world doesn't owe you friends.

The world doesn't owe you a job.

The world doesn't owe you food, or shelter, or water, or warmth.

The world doesn't owe you fairness.

The world doesn't owe you happiness.

The world doesn't owe you a life.

So where does that put you?




You missed a couple of things there sonny.

The world doesn't owe you property rights.

The world doesn't owe you a police force that protects you from the have-nots.



Add those two into your rantings and then I might have a little respect for you, swiftly followed by burning your house to ground and stealing all your s**t.



Janissy
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02 Nov 2011, 1:11 pm

ialdabaoth wrote:
Your mother does not owe you a nipple to suck on.

Your father does not owe you a bed to sleep in.
.


I take exception to your list just with these two items. I think parents actually do owe their kids food and shelter, a debt they assume simply by having the kids. (I am a parent, for the record, so I am not grumbling about my own parents but stating what I owe my daughter for having her as all parents owe their children.) However, that debt ends when childhood ends, something that many young adults don't realize and think their parents owe them support literally for life.

In quite a lot of societies, once the child becomes an adult and the parent becomes an elderly person unable to care for themselves (if that happens) the debt is reversed.


But I think the parent owing the child (too young to care for himself) and the child owing the parent (too old to care for himself) are the only actual debts.



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02 Nov 2011, 1:46 pm

ialdabaoth wrote:
Ichinin wrote:
Republicans = A sociopatic political system.


Sociopathic, but amazingly effective.



Yeah, their ability to tripple the deficit and screw up the budget is certainly effective. No current political party in Europe, except maby the ones in Greece or Italy have been able to achieve something like that.


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ialdabaoth
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02 Nov 2011, 6:43 pm

Ichinin wrote:
ialdabaoth wrote:
Ichinin wrote:
Republicans = A sociopatic political system.


Sociopathic, but amazingly effective.



Yeah, their ability to tripple the deficit and screw up the budget is certainly effective. No current political party in Europe, except maby the ones in Greece or Italy have been able to achieve something like that.


You've got the wrong context. You're blaming them for problems that they don't care about. They're amazingly effective at what they do care about.



ialdabaoth
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02 Nov 2011, 8:04 pm

DC wrote:
ialdabaoth wrote:
The world doesn't owe you loving parents.

The world doesn't owe you friends.

The world doesn't owe you a job.

The world doesn't owe you food, or shelter, or water, or warmth.

The world doesn't owe you fairness.

The world doesn't owe you happiness.

The world doesn't owe you a life.

So where does that put you?




You missed a couple of things there sonny.

The world doesn't owe you property rights.

The world doesn't owe you a police force that protects you from the have-nots.



Add those two into your rantings and then I might have a little respect for you, swiftly followed by burning your house to ground and stealing all your sh**.


Behold! Enlightenment!



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03 Nov 2011, 12:22 am

Life doesn't owe me anything so I get the things that I want, myself.


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ialdabaoth
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03 Nov 2011, 11:02 am

CockneyRebel wrote:
Life doesn't owe me anything so I get the things that I want, myself.


And then what happens to the ones that can't?



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03 Nov 2011, 9:56 pm

People who can not afford it will find ways to get what they want. Life is all about survival. The law does not matter when you are starving and have nothing to lose. Anyway if you get put in prison you get three meals a day and a bed to sleep in.