Lost a Friend Again

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This means a lot to me. So much. So much. Thank you.

Wow this is beyond words and oh my goodness where to start.

First of all, she does NOT even sound like a good friend but a flip switch person. She isn't even capable of being a good friend if she treats you like that. If she were a true friend, then this person would have talked to you one on one in person about setting boundaries with you. Instead, it would seem that she chose make you feel bad about something so minor.

Secondly, I get the feeling that this woman was a true jerk and that she kept leading you around about getting together. "Just as soon as I finish school." What a thing to say? To me that is a red flag. What was worse is that she was giving you mixed messages about contacting her too. "I don't take e-mails but I only text." Then you offered to text her back and ask if you two could meet and she blows up at you? That is childishly abusive. She was way out of line. Then again, she blew up because she was feeling guilty for treating you poorly by blaming the vicitim

You deserve so much better than that too. As for the other woman, have you found anyone else to stand up to her like an advocate?

I think that she did the best with what she was able. I've been meditating this past few days and playing my games, pretty obsessively inbetween coping with my reality. I tried really hard to imagine what she was going through without her telling me specifically...I can't. Whenever I try I get into mind-reading, and that gets me in trouble, because people say I am always wrong. So I thought about what I would do in such a situation but my reactions would be completely different, as I would never respond by ignoring AFTER telling them I'm taking space/some time and warning them that if they continue to contact me after our initial discussion of the fact, that they won't get a response as I take my personal time. I've always been very clear about this. I.E. I don't ignore people out of the blue, without 1) trying to talk it out first and failing, and 2) explaining my need for space and taking it.

Therefore, because her reaction and mine are so different. I could only think about it in terms of one scenario. That good friend who likes PCs and Games like I do, a while back I told him I would be focusing on working on socializing and my in-person life, trying to integrate and survive in society. He became upset, because our relationship was not a priority, my getting healthy and better was. He began contacting me, even using different accounts, names, and contacting my family after I asked him to give me space/time. That did not make him a BAD friend, it revealed many of his insecurities however. Personally I think he's a great great friend and we are still friends now. He's probably the only one who went through so much pain just to be in my life and was still there when it was over. I was persistent in needing my space and time, and eventually he relaxed. I told him he was free to message me but I would not reply until "I" was personally ready, and we got through that. He worked on himself, I worked on me, and we got through it.

Now I call him my male twin because everything he has ever done has been something I have done at some point in the past like a mirror image of me from the past. The words he chooses, the things he says, so it's easier for me to relate to him and understand him, as he speaks in my language. But my need for space to begin with CAME from being overwhelmed with the personal demands our relationship had at the time, and wanting to focus on trying to develop and maintain my in person life. To which I felt I was failing even after making it a priority and so was in a constant state of depression.

Now this present person who was a friend, I would not call her a bad friend nor will I talk ill of her. Because she is a person like me and I have done so many terrible things in the past and all I would want is for someone to talk with compassion, understanding or making an attempt to understand me rather than judge or hate me. So I try to extend that to her because even if we do not react the same: We all want the same basic things? Compassion, Love, Understanding and Acceptance? At least...I do...so I'll assume that is the case for everyone else.

Therefore I have concluded that she did the best she could with what she was able/capable. In the same way I did the best I could with what I was capable. My current depression with feeling socially inadequate, combined with my dying grandfather and having to help care for him and my Great Aunt with dementia, COMBINED with suffering severe PMS/PMDD (my threshold for stress and coping gets so low that I get close to blowing my head off), combined with the threat of losing HER too, was MORE than I could take...so I too did the best with what I was able in that moment, and I fell short of what I would have liked to do in the same way she did. And maybe she responds by withdrawing from the source of her sadness...I responded by trying to understand it and be better before falling into despair once more.

Like the situation with me and my PC friend. Her priorities were not our friendship in that moment, thus the demands of our friendship was overwhelming. I have a few online friends, good online friends, and the main difference I notice between them and the very very very few in person friends I have had is that the ones who have been in my life to this day, don't throw out our friendship because I've had a bad day or even a bad phase, they've followed me through my growth and progress and so has our friendship. They gave our friendship a chance to go through the ringer, a chance to have bad moments. To learn each others languages as we go. They let me know when I had said something that upset them and that they needed some time. But most importantly, most importantly they gave our friendship a chance to go through rough patches, and never left me worrying whether we were friends or not friends anymore.

There have been people who used ignoring me as a way to communicate their feelings in the past (majority of my relationships worked on that basis), and I know that those relationships did not work out for me. There were friends in my childhood who ignored me at random for random reasons, sometimes because I went to a movie without them. I remember feeling so isolated and sad because the only friends I managed to make were the ones who did not really want to be my friend.

From this experience I gather that ignoring people is just another method of poor communication/coping style. But with clear discussion and communication I can learn how to interpret what silence means in the FAR future, but ONLY if we are given a chance to talk about it (not pretend it didn't happen).

I don't know if it this silence is aggressive defense, meant to hurt me and shut me out, or if it is a non-aggressive defense to give herself time to think carefully without saying something that SHE regrets. I actually feel like it is passive-aggressive based on the last thing she said to me (her refusal to talk to me personally about this situation, suggesting she did not feel I was capable of understanding), again I can't know she won't tell me, or talk to me.

I know ONE thing for certain. That I enjoyed the time we shared together, and that I make a great and loyal friend, and that she is a friend I would like to have in my life. And that I pray/meditate to the universe that she is alright and that maybe she will prove to be a friend to me by giving us a chance to talk about this in person, so that I can prove to her that I am a good friend too... using this bad situation as an example for how to communicate and work together in the future. And if that doesn't happen I hope that she is still alright and that she enjoys her life with things that she can handle. From such a loss I have already learned a LOT about myself, things that are invaluable, something I could not have learned without having that argument with her.

First, I realize I need help. My coping skills are so bad, so bad that I start thinking self-harm and suicide every time I think I cannot cope anymore with the flaws in my brain, that make it difficult for me to be apart of society both independently and so on. I have this belief that I do not deserve friendship if I am not independent, and will never be able to maintain an IN PERSON friendship if I can not learn how to be socially integrated and in-person. This proved true even for friendships that were NOT close to me. I will never have a friend this way. Sometimes I think I am so desperate to have THIS specific friend in my life, that I would pay her a lot of money just to talk this out with me!! ! I get sad because I feel like because I'm not socially integrated, because I'm not independent, and because I am not financially stable or sound, that I will not ever make any friends, to which I've read in many human books is a shallow but true part of life. I have needs and issues that the average NT cannot cope with. My brain is just shaped differently. SO this bad falling out with someone I LOVE so much has taught me, I need psychiatric help to tackle the specific issues I deal with in my day to day life that the AVERAGE person (avoiding "Normal") does not have to deal with.

Second, I realized/learned at least some idea of what I need in a friend or any person who is going to be in my life. I need someone who will not treat me like a cardboard cut out friend, a one-size friend fits all. Willing if I am truly important to work with me, because I am willing to WORK with them to make them feel comfortable, why do I have to bend 100% around people. I can BEND, I can be flexible to the needs/accommodations of others have, if they can do the same for me, in a way that works for both. I believe figuring that out can be an explosion, and that the true test comes with whether that friend is willing to take the time and make the effort to do those things or if they are unable/unwilling to altogether. But I especially need a promise that so long as I do not THREATEN OR HARM the person I care about, that they would be willing to work with our friendship, and then to give me the respect and courtesy to have an in-person conversation with me for why we cannot will not work. It's the alternative format to 'breaking up via text-message or 'ignoring''.

And I think those are fair and reasonable requests to make of any person. And those same people can do the same with me, and see where our needs overlap and see where they don't and see if they are close enough to be worked around or AT THE VERY LEAST see if there is no to satisfy the two needs inbetween at all.

Third, it helped me understand people a bit more. How different each person is. Their own stress thresholds, And that people try their best but still fall short. And how Buddha wasn't joking when he says when you think you've found something that is stable, you will find yourself to be wrong. I can't write a book on this Third because I don't quite understand what that all means for me or for people, but it's helped me understand how fragile the world is, and how if I want friends I either have to play their games or continue to be alone having very very few friends.

Fourth, that there are people in my life who love and care for me, just few people willing to know me warts and all. Actually only online friends and my grandparents* warts and all! But that there are many friends who don't mind knowing the me 'without' the glaring warts.


I feel like if my friend has gone the, aggressive, punishing you, never going to talk to you route then this is a shame/sad day in deed, and it is as much as MY loss as it is hers. Because she is a great person who I LOVE a lot, but I'm a GREAT person too. And I felt we both had a lot to offer to each other once we learned how to work with and around each others flaws, insecurities and warts. I mean I was willing to put in the effort to do so, I wish that were a mutual want.

But if she is going the, taking space route and will definitely talk to me later, then it can only make us stronger. I hate surprises, so I HAVE to assume she is going the aggressive route whether it is true or not. Because I can't cope with the possibility that she may or may not be there in the future, I don't know how to deal with those two possible realities. In that way I meditate and focus on loving and caring for her from a distance, even though I feel she has chosen a more aggressive route. This helps me heal my heart. And so long as we can discuss this IN PERSON, I'd be open to a positive possibility, but again I have to focus on the one possibility that this will not happen for her with me. And one reason might be because she is older, has had more experiences with more types of people (she's very social), and might have an easier time grouping me with the 'bad experience' or 'red flag' category, meaning there is no chance/possibility of that happening for me. And that's my sad reality right now .

Right now I have withdrawn from the world. I have let people know I am depressed and may be canceling any appointment that is not a session with a psychiatrist. I am playing DC Universe online as a villain because I want to fly and feel like my shadow self (flaws and subconscious) has overwhelmed me completely. I am thinking of canceling my entire week. I know now that I probably will not jump off a bridge, but I also know that I feel like I need to be alone for a while. I don't know if psychiatric help, will actually be of use for me if I am so far deep. But that I'm open to it, and that the overwhelming pain in my heart (severe chest pains from the emotional stress) has alleviated somewhat, that it is not a bad thing for me to take some time and do something that makes me feel comfortable. For me that is gaming inside a world that is anything but the one I have been forced to live and die in.

Last edited by TaoDreams on 28 May 2013, 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hello. I'm back from visiting my sons and I've read all the posts. TaoDreams, you have been doing a lot of thinking. I hope you'll let us know how the psychiatric sessions go. I'm trying to get my aspie son to see a psychiatrist for his depression, but, you know, mom. We moms have dumb ideas. I gave him some ear plugs to help with his sound sensitivity. I gave him a cannibis cupcake I bought in a local restaurant to see if it would help him sleep better and ease some of the pain from ankylosing spondylitis. It made him sick and wired him up. Ah, man, idiosyncratic reaction. Of course. His autistic sister usually had the opposite reaction to medications from other people. You should see how wired Benedryl makes her. So, oops about that. If one thing doesn't work, you try another.
I wish you well.

I am really impressed with you not speaking ill of this person who rejected you. As for you writing long postings like that, I would work on it yes. Then again, you would make a very profound writer one day and I would be more than willing to read your posting. Maybe she did not know how to handle to situation but still.

From the vibrations that I am seeing, I still don't think she was being too nice when it came to your situation. From what I read, it did not seem like you were really at the top of her list. It also sounded very one sided as to where she was willing to hang at her home and completely not associate at your's because it's boring? Hello. That's called trying to act like she is more important.

"Just as soon as I finish this or that," says. "This or that are more important."

Thanks Lelia and Summer Twilight. Lelia, your kids are lucky to have you and hopefully therapy will work out for me. I'll give an update if I am not being toooo forgetful and absorbed in my games, writing and drawing

(mmm sry for confusion, clarification)If I recall she didn't want to hang out at my house or hers (few people have been confused by this), she just needs to be active and doing something her mind needs to be engaged. So sitting around just hanging out (no matter whose house it was), was just something she couldn't cope with, even if just for tea. Like it had to be out at a restaurant or coffee shop for us just to share tea, wasn't a my house thing it was an any house thing.


At Present:

I do indeed hope the therapist I meet will be a good match for me. Though I personally don't know how long I want to go to sessions. It is a trial, I really believe I am beyond help from anyone even a therapist. I seem to be the only answer to saving me from myself and I don't think I am being very successful in that endeavor!

So far, I've accepted that this is my life, that this is the world I live in. Trying to work through it now, but beyond my grandparents, I can't imagine what the point would be for. After my grandfather dies, it'll be me and my grandmother and when she dies I'll have nothing left, and I'm not ok with that reality.

I thought today there is so much I DO love about this world. Things I love to do, obsessions I have. But none of it matters without them. All the happiness in the world means nothing to me if they aren't in my life.

This woman (my friend) came into my life during a time when I was going through something amazingly difficult, this huge transition, where I was both hoping for a sign that someone could love me the way they did (and I don't mean romantically I don't think like that very well!), I mean it was just a few weeks before I met her that I had written my usual "To live or not to live" notes, and she said add me to your reasons to live.

She said, because when your grandparents are gone, you'll have me. I'll love you. I'll care for you. I said I didn't want that (her to care for me), just wanted her to love me no matter what, unconditionally, never to abandon me, but nevertheless she tried. Perhaps that's where the disconnect happened. She tried to fill a role she wasn't able, and thought I was asking for too much, when in reality all I was asking was to see her from time to time without so many rules and stipulations (but even that I guess was too much for her, she has her own demons to fight too just like me). In any case whatever she is going through I genuinely feel for her, as I think I came into her life when she was going through something too.

I researched what to do when a friend is ignoring you and learned a lot about this too.

Nevertheless, now I am left where I was before I met her if not a little lower down on the feeling of nothing here for me when they're gone. Like false moment of hope that I wouldn't be alone in the world without a mother's/grandparents love. And that's where I am right now. I guess this relationship was just a distraction, so I'm back to Ground 1, and currently just trying to sort through all this mess in my head.

I would not say that about yourself just because she happens to be gone. Think of things this way. When one door closes another and even better door will open for you. Maybe the therapist will be a great networker for you to meet other people on the spectrum who you can relate to.

I had trouble with making friends too but I ended up finding a few support systems and made myself some new friends. So I now associate with people on the spectrum and a few of their parents. It's been so nice as we have been able to arrange things from parties to just going to a sporting event.

You're only in your 20's and you have a lot of time.

Had a great session today and am feeling much more hopeful. It's just nice having that support to be my best self. Well that's all wanted to update as Lelia mentioned to put a word out on how it went, so am doing so. Thanks Summer, yeah I should probably give my chance to grow a little older before I make drastic decisions about who I am being permanent.

I'm glad you had a good session. Did you learn anything?

It was a really great session. I learned that there is some hope for me, and would like to pursue this. I want to learn how to feel comfortable being me, positive solitude and coping with the demands of society which I feel is very superficial and full of demands that are hard for me. And she seems to believe that I can learn how to feel comfortable, so I feel hopeful, and more at ease at not having any friends. (At least not friends like you see with Rizzoli & Isles, Xena & Gabrielle!)

Speaking of which, well I lost my PC Friend too! As it turned out he still had romantic stipulations and was very bitter still, he told me because I did not reveal my sexual history to him when he wanted me to that he felt alienated and alone when he needed me the most (needed me to tell him my sexual history), and that even though I had finally done all of those things it wasn't good enough. He just went on a tangent, basically he baited me without meaning to so he could project his insecurities and put me down.

In that moment I came up with some realizations from this experience I have from these failed relationships, the most important one being that I can be alone and happy. That I don't need other people to make me happy like friendships and the sort. To feel validated, to confirm my sense of self etc. (all those reasons we have friends). That I can be my own friend really and just simply enjoy my own company.

All this time I spend alone I can focus on creative endeavors that I enjoy: Gaming, PC building, Writing Stories, World building, researching and illustrations (drawings) to these worlds I've made. Transforming the world in my head through heart and simply working on me and the areas I need to in order to feel comfortable in a world that feels so foreign.

I also wonder if words are not the best way to communicate but visual art, so I am focusing more on finding a way to communicate myself through a combination of words, visual art and animation.

I had some other realizations but I didn't write them down here, basically the effect of those realizations led to this. Just the reality is I am alone, there are people who love and care about me, but I may always be alone, and I think I have to say to myself, it's OK to be alone. It's OK not to be good at making and keeping friends, and it's OK if the people you care about don't want to talk to you anymore. It's all OK and you can enjoy your life still anyway.

That wasn't from therapy really that was just after lots of meditation, but I feel like just being acknowledged in therapy for who I am helped me come to this conclusion better, that it's OK, and that feels right. Like that movie title: "The kid's are alright"/"Everybody's Fine". The whole world feels like a dysfunctional mess lol...and that's perfectly alright.

I'm glad you're in a better place. Everyone is alone when you take it down to brass tacks, but that isn't always a bad thing.

Eeeeek! You don't owe anybody your sexual history. I want to slap your PC Friend for being a voyeur. How dare he? What a creep. Nobody needs that kind of entitled person in their life.
I'm glad you had a good session. Are you going to have another one?

Yeah I've already had my second session, I really enjoy it.

I felt like a fool with my PC Friend at the time. Just because I really felt baited whether it was meant or not. These are the kind of messes I seem to get myself into. I don't HATE him or think of him as a bad person, I mean he's just like me: lost, and trying to figure out his way in this world. And I've learned so much from having him in my life. It was hard for me to do, but I now filter all of his messages so that they never reach my inbox, they just get thrown away. I hated making that decision because I really hate ignoring people, I HATE throwing his messages away into a corner that I'll never see, but I feel tired of being held hostage by not just my emotions but the emotions of others. I'm not ready to deal with the abuse of not living up to other people's expectations (or them mine for that matter), nor am I ready to be in relationships (friendships) with people, I thought I was ready to have any kind of relationship, but I don't think I am. I have to learn how to be by myself first, I have to learn to find the balance to where I begin and my friends end, particularly older female friends. For other types of friends finding the balance between what's good for me and good for them and so on.

With this PC friend I felt overwhelmed by:



Emotionally he has admitted to terrorizing me by his actions of stalking/harassing me online (i.e. he was using different emails to contact me, trying to learn about me by contacting family and even my exes whose information he discovered by searching and digging it up, and so on). My goal however is to view him not as a tormentor but a mentor.

I guess I needed a friend so badly that I overlooked all the things that were hurting me, that weren't good for me, and thus not good for him (as me just talking to him kindly seemed to effect him negatively as he reverted back into depression because I wasn't his friend for the reasons he wanted me to be his friend for). When I told him he was hurting me and I needed to take space, he said I was hurting him. He kept saying that he'd let me take space, and that if something/when I was ready he'd be there, and so on. He'd keep emailing me from time to time, and so on. And I felt like when I was ready to give him what he wanted, he unintentionally baited me.

We managed to have friendly conversations for a week (last week), and then he told me he felt bitter and angry at me for not being a true friend to him when he 'needed' me (in relation to sexual history and withdrawing, even specified it). And that he was there for 'me' but I wasn't there for him (as a result of taking space that I personally requested and had to actually fight for due to being overwhelmed), and that I was 'happy' (us talking last week/that past week) but he wasn't because of his self-sacrifice to be what I needed (i.e. he was saying he was my friend for altruistic motives, and that I owed him and 'payment' wasn't what he wanted). This confused me because my understanding was that our friendship was mutual (He said he was mutually happy we were in each others lives again). I had given him all the information he wanted to give him at my own personal expense. I told him what he wanted to hear, but it didn't erase the fact that I didn't tell him all this when he wanted to hear it, compounded further that I only came back to talk to him, because in his own words, "I was done working on healing and growing." he felt resentment and anger because I was trying to focus on healing and growing and moving forward (which meant not making him a priority). And then felt ANGER and RESENTMENT when I didn't. (I.e. he said you're only talking to me now because you're not focused on growing right now, to which I said I WAS but just taking space and time to reflect, or something of the sorts...to which I am thinking now, what friend would try and sabotage another friends growth? And actually become angry at them for trying to move forward with their life???)

He Kept saying. "I'm not blaming you but you weren't there for me." and I said you kept insisting that I share my sexual history for me, he said a lot of things like, 'I would never want to sleep with you because I don't know who has been there', oh that hurt a lot. Because I was sexually molested as a child, so it really hurt that he was trying to pressure me into sharing something that I didn't want to emotionally go. It also hurt a lot that I felt pressured to talk about sexual things when I'm not a sexual person. I have no interest in romance, he just got mad at me for so many things. And then would blame me for things he would do to himself. Like if someone cuts themselves, and then holds it up to you and says: SEE WHAT YOU DID?

OK, so he feels what he feels, and that is fair enough. But I felt stupid for not reading between the lines. For not realizing all the ulterior motives and stipulations. In any case this was really good for me this experience because it allowed me to look at a few things:



I used it as an opportunity to look at our friendship not negatively but for all the great things that I learned from it and him, about myself and about others (opportunity to practice both self and other compassion). So those lessons learned are not bad things at all!

But yeah that's my pattern with making friends. I don't understand it, but, it is what it is right?

I'm glad you are lesson learning and all, but your pc friend is still a preditor. His manipulation is evil. Keep blocking him. I wonder who you can report him to?
At any rate, it sounds like you are making real progress under difficult circumstances. Good for you!
Please keep me updated.

I'm sorry TaoDream, there is too much text for me to read this entire thread. But I did skim through your first post and some replys. I may have some answers for you as I've just gone through 3 years of hell doing the same thing for a girl who constantly called me her friend. I was slow and neive, but I was never her friend, I was useful to her financialy, and a comfort to her when she was feeling down (which was often). I've read a lot of books and experienced a great deal in the last three years, so I'll try to share some of what I've learned.

Needy:
If you are desperatly lonely and SO want to have a friend/partner/lover, you will cling to this other person doing all sorts of favors and stuff in the hope that they will like you more. This is not a friend situation, this is you being needy.

I'm not berating you, I'm educating you.
I did exactly this myself because i was so desperate to find a girl who liked me. I thought I found one, and so I did everything for her. She started asking for money and I started handing over money. This is not a friend, friends don't take money, they may borrow some on the rare occation, but friends return it quick smart. It's called respect. Taking money as a handout is not respectful, that's using somebody.

A friend knows you so well, inside and out; and likes you anyway.

A friend respects you, and what you own.

A friend doesn't ask favors or money of you. (except in rare situation, and I mean rare situation).

Friends like each others company because they like spending time with each other. There is no net binifit to either party. No free rent, no free food, no free support, no free lifts, no free use of toys, no borrowing, NO NET BENIFIT.

Understand those definitions above and you may be getting closer to understanding she was not a friend.

Also, I would recomend you buy books and read them. They are imensly valuable resourses. Social sphycology style books. I gave this girls of mine a book called "The Need to Please". Which is where I began to understand how my own neediness was driving people away. It's tough, but to be accepted as a friend, you must NOT be needy.

Something for you to think on. Hope all goes well for you...

I'll tell of another recent discovery of mine.

I used to hang out with a couple girls. One is the focus of my post above. I don't want to see her again. The second girl I am still good friends with.

They both said they like my company, because they feel safe in my company.

I think one reason they feel safe is that I don't put any emotional load on them. I'm simply there with them, it's a company thing. They can have company without any male/female emotional dynamic, or any pressure/expectation for sex. They like simply having company without the pressure.

I think its partly because I lack the emotional transfer within a conversation that they are used to. I am emotionaly stable, unafected by their own insecurities. And because I'm stable, they feel more stable simply because I am stable.

I'm not sure I put that into words correctly. Hopefuly you can undstand what I'm trying to say.

I was thinking that this "might" be some of the reason this girl friend you found initialy hung on to you in the first place. You were inocent to the world, and therefor your simplicity was comforting to them. Initialy at least, things tend to grow out of proportion as they discover they can also use your inocence to their own advantage. I suspect this is what's happened with you.