New girl in my office

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Part 2 of 2.

I completed linear algebra in high school and as a college undergrad was selected to grade papers in the subject. Yes to the other stuff, but a far away memory (use it or lose it). I think I would have like differential geometry but I don't recall that being part of my BSEE curriculum.



I don't know.


I wouldn't be surprised if he had a reaction similar to yours. After he walked off, perhaps I stopped saying "hi" b/c he had become "busy": in my book he didn't want to talk. In his book he thought I didn't want to talk. Nobody talked.


How is that not my interpretation? I find your descriptions of your behavior quite off putting. To be clear: my examples are that in my youth I would behave similarly to her in regards to your behavior. As an adult I still have difficulties, but not as much.

If a person won't greet me first on occasion, and I think they are capable of doing so, I would tag them as disrespectful.


She didn't have to.


I feel belittled when you say something I see as relevant is "silly". If you don't see it, I would appreciate a more respectful way. If that is respectful in your mind... the impact does not match your intent.


Yes, to me, that's a seed. Obviously you have the silly idea that it is not. (back at you)


Yes, you've got it. This is advice given to me that makes sense at times. I ruminate (obsess). It's like a person is looking at the roots, again and again and again and the seed can't grow when someone keeps yanking it up to look at the roots. Let it be, give it water and light - it will grow or it won't. This isn't for all situations; like you said, for the ones when the root inspections aren't productive.


I don't understand that, or don't want to.


I understood that. I don't approach people b/c I think they are "busy" (not interested, kind, respectful, etc.)


I meant that perhaps you don't want attention to the degree that I do, not that you don't want it at all. Humans are social beings, even the ASD humans. I am outgoing and extroverted and am near constantly seeking attention, I think you would say you are more introverted like my BFF.


As I said, I felt that way about my mgmt. He's just being "nice" b/c he has to, he doesn't mean it. I let that go (mostly) and decided to enjoy the "forced" conversations for myself or just skip them. I don't give a rat's arse anymore if my mgmt. is happy with talking to me; I'm enjoying the conversation (or not) ---- I have my power back and my mgmt. is treating me better for it. It's weird that when I "care", I am treated poorly (by some people). But when I "don't care", I am treated better (by those people). I think it's a fairly typical dynamic and must have a term someplace.

So you got mad because you messed up and she refused to act like it never happened? And you refused to believe her feelings about when she said it wasn't loveless? You really need to learn to respect other people. Also, relationships change with time; you can't expect everything to always stay the same. If you can't accept the changes yet it's not possible to go back to the way things were, then you break up.

Sometimes people need time in order to get their thoughts in order about something they consider difficult. Taking distance gives them more time to think, especially if they know you'll obsess and pester them about it if they do talk to you. It can also be a sign that they're wondering if you can really give them what they want from a relationship.

I need more info about the third point to be able to reply. All I can say is that if they hear right away you have aspergers, it might worry them as they don't know what to expect. And if they know yet still talk to you first but back off later, it can be that they notice that aspergers affects you in ways that are too much for them to handle. As in, at first they might've thought you're a milder case than you actually are.

Well, when I say one of your "ideas" is silly, I don't mean to say that "you" are silly. It is entirely possible for an otherwise smart person to have a silly idea once in a while -- just like its possible for a stupid person to have some genious idea once in a while, too. When I say something about an idea, that doesn't refer to the person behind an idea.

But I guess I see where you are coming from because my thesis advisor keeps telling me that what I say is "nonesense" and I was quite sure that he was belittling me, until I noticed those things:

(i) One week he says that everything I am saying is nonesense and the other week he says that what I say can lead to truly great results

(ii) He made a mistake and then when he corrected his own mistake he just made he said that what *he* was saying was nonesense. So obviously he wasn't trying to belittle himself

(iii) When he talked to my mom about me she told me he was actually of high opinion of me

So I guess he is just blunt. And, incidentally, a lot of students don't like him; perhaps this is why.

But in any case, I wasn't even comparing myself to him until you pointed it out to me. On my end, I was simply not noticing that anything I was saying was belittling you at all -- until you pointed it out to me. Because you see, in his case, I can't read his mind, so I go by what he says -- and what he says sounds belittling. But in my case, I *can* read my own mind, of course -- and, in fact, what is going on in my own mind is in forefront of everything else -- so I was assuming you knew that I meant what I thought I meant (which wasn't disrespectful) -- until you told me otherwise.



And now you are the one acting rude towards me. Are you just trying to get back at me for my own rudeness since you thought I was being rude on purpose (which I wasn't)?

There is just too much THINKING going on for there to be any ACTION...…

I wouldn't have the patience for all this minute sorts of thinking. People, outside of academic settings, want to have more fun. They don't want to have to think over every little detail. Every little word. Every instance of eye contact.

I just don't have quite the attention span for all this....

I assure you that within academic sttings, a lot of people want to have fun, too

Right!

Also, the average person doesn’t think that much and preplan their every word and action. Sometimes we may read intentions into things that the person had in no way considered or meant.

Generally, it’s good to be positive and give people the benefit of the doubt. Positivity is an important trait when it comes to making friends or looking for a love interest.

People don’t want to be around someone who is negative all the time and seems critical of others. That’s not a fun person to hang out with.

Thank you for the clarification. Yes, I took it personally. It's an area for me to grow in. I'm not clear when to shrug something off and when to assert myself. I have a significant self esteem problem that way.


Actually, in my mind there was no malicious intent towards you, I was frustrated by myself. (I think I explicitly noted elsewhere where I had it in mind to get "back at you"). My diagnosis includes a reading disability; I reread your comment at least 3 times, but couldn't understand it; then I wondered that subconsciously I was having a hard time with the concept, so wrote perhaps I "don't want to" (subconsciously)implied, but not explicit). That wasn't about you; I had exceeded my personal limitation.

Aren't we a pair?

I hear you, I understand. And (teasing) here is what I think about that... In it's way, this is fun! It's fun to overthink things on occasion, although if it's all the time, that's crippling (my plant root analogy). I dislike that at work I don't get time to think. Personally, I often take offense at stuff like this and I've never looked closely at it and haven't been clear how to "let it go". So for me it's good to explore misunderstandings with QFT and get real feedback. Maybe now I can get it in my head why it's useful to "let it go" --- b/c what I am letting go is my perception, not an actual offense. And if it is an actual offense, I get to let that go to if I want (after a very brief cost-benefit analysis).

Interesting article for me (as I acknowledge my childhood emotional abuse and how it persists in my current reactions): https://www.harleytherapy.co.uk/counsel ... -abuse.htm

Actually, the more its my fault, the more I get persistent. If something happens on the girls end that has absolutely nothing to do with me, then I might actually respect that. But if I know its my fault, I want to "undo" it, and when I can't "undo" it, then its a really frustrating feeling and it makes me get pushy.



But its hard to make sense of it. I mean, logically, if she talks to me less because of something I done, it implies less love, right?



If they change as a natural course, then I am fine with this. I only have issue when they change in the response of my doing something I shouldn't have done on the first place.



Actually, the last sentence in the above quote is the exact reason why I pester them so much. If it wasn't for that, maybe I would have been less persistent.

Here is the thing: if it is about whether I am "able" to give them something -- then who knows about my skills better than me? Thats why its frustrating when they evaluate "my" skills without actually talking to me.

I realize that "partly" its about them. For example, maybe I "think" that they are talking about my giving them X, but actually their concern is my giving them Y, and perhaps we both agree I can't do Y. But then again, what "if" it is, in fact, about X? Then shouldn't I be able to let them know I can do X? Thats why it requires two way communication: them telling me what it is they need and me telling them whether I am able to give it.

Yes I respect their needs: if they say they need Y, I am not going to say "actually I think you need X"; I would respect that they need Y. But if they say "I need X and I don't think you can give it to me" then I want to clarify that second part and say "actually I think I can give you X".

And this goes back to why I get more persistent when I did something I shouldn't have done. Because that is the exact situation where my performance doesn't match my skills. If I did the best I could -- and they still don't like me -- then it means I can't give them what they want. But if I was being lackluster about the whole thing or, worse, doing things that I *know* I shouldn't be doing -- that is when I feel like maybe I can perform better so I want a chance to demonstrate that.



You are right that its them seeing that my Asperger is more servere than they thought. Case in point: a certain guy who used to be my officemate two years ago (he left university) told me he has Asperger. But he is quite outgoing and totally acts like an NT, and is popular with people in general including girls. So I am sure if he were to tell them he has Asperger their only reaction would be "huh? Thats interesting" and they would continue to treat him the way they did without knowing it. But in my case -- since my differences are visibly obvious -- thats why people react to me differently. They treat me as different even if I don't say I have Asperger (well, yes, I say it quite often -- but I am not walking around the campus with a billboard "I have Asperger" -- yet those stranges on campus aren't treating me any better). So thats why, in my specific context, saying I have Asperger simply confirms to people what they see anyway.

However, I still think that stereotyping plays a role. Take, for example, my first ex, back in 2003--2004. So I told her about Asperger right away, but she treated me like a normal person first two months of a relationship. However, I was starting arguments with her that ended up being fights (I didn't mean for them to become fights, I just wanted to "clarify" certain issues -- but due to the way she reacted to them and then the way I reacted to her reactions, they ended up becoming fights). In any case, two months later she stopped treating me like a normal person and started treating me like an aspie instead. So when she would avoid taking me to places that are loud since aspies are "supposed" to have sensory issues -- even though I told her time and time again that I don't have it -- and when I would confront her with the fact that I don't have sensory issues she "thought" I have, she would shout "stop" (since she didn't want to have yet another argument with me).

So here is a question: why is it that, in her mind, the fact that I had fights with her first two months imply that I have sensory issues? So its like a dichotomy. Either people ignore my label and treat me as totally normal in all respects (which is how she treated me first two months) or else people take my label seriously and project onto me everything they ever read about it. And this leaves me with the following question: if people were to separate the aspects where I currently have problem and the aspects where I don't, would they be more willing to give me a chance? And even if they look at the aspects I do have problem with, they could further sub-divide them into aspects I can and can't change (instead of just assuming I can't change any of them). If they were to do so, would they be more willing to give me a chance?

Actually, there is a good example where I am capable of doing so: uber. So I used uber for few years but I didn't know that there is such a thing as uber rating until a year ago. So, a year ago, I checked my rating and found out it was 4.62. At first I started throwing fits about it, which brought it down to 4.58, but after I calmed down I started to put effort into being curteous to the drivers. Not too much: I guess it was as simple as

a) being at the exact location I ask them to come to (as opposed to before when I oftentimes was making them wait for like 5 minutes or even more). I think it is partly due to their location detection device improving. In the past I had to enter the location, so I would put the address of the nearest location that I know the address of, and then it would take time for me to walk to that location. But as of now the cell phone simply knows where I am and asks the uber driver to come to my exact location, so I don't have to do any of that.

b) I say hello to them when I walk in the car (and yes, I say hello to them first).

c) In the past I had issue that they didn't understand my Russian accent, and my typical reaction was that I would repeat what they didn't understand with the same exact words at the same exact pace to see if they understand it; they would continue not to understand, so I would get more and more frustrated and start yelling. After I learend about ratings I stopped doing it What I do now is that if they don't understand my accent, I use different words and speak more slowly; and I make sure "not to" raise my voice or get otherwise emotional. Interestingly enough the situations when they don't understand me don't occur as often (perhaps its because their destination device is improved or something) but when they do I make sure not to overreact.

d) I say "thank you", and "have a nice day" when I leave. I don't have a habbit of doing it, but I make sure to do it with uber.

e) I don't slam the door when I leave. That one has nothing to do with temper -- its just the way I naturally close the door -- but specifically with uber I take an effort to remind myself not to do it.

Long story short: my current Uber rating is 4.81. In other words it went from low to average, which I consider to be a big achievement. And, in fact, I don't put effort into the above things as much as I used to since it became a habbit. And every time I travel somewhere and have to take uber a lot I more or less look forward to see my rating go further up: like I "know" it would go up and not down -- even if I don't necesserely put so much effort any more. The only time it went down was when I lost temper over the argument I had with my mom and screamed "arghhhh" right before leaving uber, thats when it went from 4.82 down to 4.77, and it took few months to bring it back up to 4.81.

But, back to what we were talking about -- yes I am capable of saying hi first, as demonstrated by uber. As far as why I don't, let me give you another uber example to explain that part. So one thing I DON"T do with uber is that I never tip. And no, it has nothing to do with being greedy (I tip at the restaurants all the time). Rather it has to do with the fact that if I were to tip, how would I be able to tell whether my score went up because I was curteous or whether it went up because I tipped? Since my concern is social skills, I want to be able to evaluate my rating based on social skills alone -- and thats why its so important that I don't tip. Now, the point I am trying to make is that: the reason I don't say hi to my officemate first is the same reason as to why I don't tip uber drivers. In case of uber, I want to evaluate how my rating would go if I don't tip, while in case of my officemate I want to evaluate whether she would talk to me if I don't say hello first. Tipping an uber driver as well as saying hi first to the office mate both feels blike cheating in a way. But I do say hello first to the uber, just like I do tip at the restaurant, so its all situational.



I am not saying that she had to. I am saying that this is a sign as to whether or not we are on good terms. If she had to -- then it wouldn't be such a sign so it wouldn't count any more. Just like in case of uber, making small talk is part of their "job". So if an uber driver has small talk with me, I won't say "hey someone talks to me!" They are only doing what they "have" to. But I wish I could get myself to a point where someone who doesn't "have" to talk to me -- such as my office mate -- talks to me anyway.

I mean, my office mate doesn't "have" to ask how you are doing to anyone else either, yet she does. Why? Because she *wants* to. So how can I get to the situation where she *wants* to talk to me, too?

And this goes back to why I don't want to start conversations myself. Because you see, if I start conversations first, then she would *have* to reply, so it wouldn't count either. But if she actually *wants* to talk to me (rather than "has" to) then she would start conversations on her own -- and thats what I want to happen.



I understand what you are saying. I guess I just feel like there is something awfully wrong with the roots that needs fixing. So I feel like its a "lesser evil" to keep digging it out than to just leave that problem there unresolved.



I mean to say that I am looking for meaningful connections rather than simple office courtesy.

I can't get the connections elsewhere, so I was thinking "okay here is my chance: she is my officemate!" But nope, didn't work either, so now I have to wait for the next fall to get next officemate (if I am lucky enough for one of the two current officemates to leave so that there would even be a room for new officemate).



The "not interested" thing is not a putoff (since its me who is presumably not interested rather than her) while "not kind" or "not respectful" certainly is. Which one do you think did she mean in that specific conversation?



Even if you make that statement about the degrees, I still disagree. Look at how many pages I type about wanting attention. Now look at how many pages other people on this board type? Most people don't type as much as I do about it. So obviously I want it more badly than most people.

That, plus also what about the past girlfriends that were saying I am too demanding or too needy? Its true, however, that some of the girls that never dated me on the first place said I presumably can't love (they projected the Asperger stereotype on me). But -- out of the ones that DID date me -- I don't think anyone said this. I guess the only exception is my second ex: her problem with me was that she felt like she was third behind physics and my parents. But the girls other than her were saying I was too needy.

So which way is it? Am I *more* needy than most (like some of my ex-s say) or *less* needy than most (like you are saying)?



Maybe you feel this way because you have people to socialize with elsewhere. So thats why what you need at work is courtesy rather than socialization. But I don't have anyone elsewhere to socialize with -- thats why I keep wishing to get that meaningful socialization out of people at school.

Last edited by QFT on 04 Dec 2019, 9:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Thats actually an interesting comparison that points to the difference in our perception. As far as I am concerned -- when you told me my idea was silly -- I didn't feel like it was putdown. Well, I guess since you told me that it was, I believed you -- but I wouldn't have thought so if you didn't make that clarification. On the other hand, as far as when you said you don't "want" to understand me, then I thought it was a putdown, yet it wasn't. So its not like either of us are more sensitive -- its more like our areas of sensitivity is different.

Let me explain why I perceived it the way I did. If you said my idea is silly then, like I said in the previous reply, it has nothing to do with me as a person, only my idea. On the other hand, if you say you don't want to understnad it, then yes its about me as a person. In this case it is not an idea (since, admittedly, you don't know what that idea is) but it *is* me, since you said you don't want to understand it -- since presumably I am not worth listening to.

I think this difference in perception is probably why most people think I am too confrontational. If I have an open confrontation about something, then I am confronted about certain specific things I done -- so I can still be a good person outside of those things. But if I am being ignored altogether then it feels like me, as a person, isn't worth talking to. So thats why in my past relationship I started fights in response to girls distancing away a lot more often than I did about anything they said. Well, yes, there were many times when I started fights over what they said. But the point is that after they said something they didn't want to give me a chance to refute it. If they did, then probably it wouldn't have escalated the way it did.

Well, is IS academic setting: I mean we are in the math department.

Or are you ment to say that the "topic of discussion" isn't academic: I am not dissecting a math project, rather I am dissecting who said hello to whom?

Maybe the reason I look at all those details is because there were many times when I got ostracized based on what I "thought" were just details. But maybe its because what feels like "small details" to me don't feel like "small details" to other people? But since I don't know what "other people" regard as details and what they don't -- thats why I over-compensate by overanalyzing the details. Although -- despite overcompensating -- I still don't do it enough. There are still all those "other" things I am missing, or else I wouldn't be a loner. For example, when I visit my mom she points out that I don't cut my nails. I think its a detail, but she says others see it. Well, maybe there are other examples of details like that which I ignore and others see -- and then I over-compensate for it by focusing on the details that others "don't" see, since I "think" they see them.

If there's one thing people really HATE---is somebody constantly analyzing them.

I oftentimes *suspect* that might be the case -- but the whole point is that I only "suspect" it, I don't "know" it. So I have to obsess in order to figure out for sure. Well I guess I can't ever be sure, but I want to at least have higher degree of certainty.