Why does this bother me so much?

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Ooof-dah-lah... yeah, I'd say right now, public self-talking is the least of your troubles.

Without question, you have been handed a tough start in your life. You should have gotten more support as a kid. But the lousy fact is, you didn't. Your dad has let you down big time... but here's a thought: where do you suppose you inherited the AS from? 'Cause it sounds like your dad may be a depressed, self-medicating undiagnosed, untreated Aspie.

So, while acknowledging he's failed you and your sisters, let's have a little compassion for the guy. He's probably on overload and is seriously shut down right now. I'm sure you can relate to the inability to function at nearly any level during those times.

And besides, I've always found kindness in my own heart a nicer feeling to live with than bitterness and blame, you know? Not that it's always easy.

You need to find you a little happiness, some joy in your life, some feeling of the potential it holds. Because believe me, from what I've read so far, your life holds tremendous positive potential. But because you don't feel/see it, it might as well not be there.

I'd like to help, I think I might have some useful suggestions, but would you prefer to do this via PM?

My Dad is depressed out of his mind, but an Aspie? Not a chance in hell. He barely remembers to do anything (though that could be the booze), and he doesn't talk to himself, in fact he's gotten annoyed at me for muttering to myself under my breath. No, I would more likely attribute my AS to my mom's side of the family. My dad has often said that my intelligence and exceptional memory are traits I inherited from her, and her younger brother (the uncle whom I live with) has AS without a doubt. He's highly intelligent, but he seems to have no social skills. He has very few friends, so he rarely, if ever, goes out. He's also demonstrated a lack of empathy for others, and it seems like he's always boring me to death by talking about his interests: Greek mythology, literature, computers, machinery, etc. Whenever I want a simple explanation for something, he always goes into a long-winded speech, and I'm thinking, "Dude, what the hell, just tell me how to fix my computer, I don't care how they're freaking made."
As for my dad, I can't really bring myself to sympathize with him anymore. I used to relate to him quite well, even considering him to be my hero. But now, it just seems that he's pissing everyone off, and the few people who still remain close to him are just enabling him to keep doing what he's been doing. At this point, I'm seriously considering trying to find a new home for them, but the only issue there is the fact that they don't want to move to a different place. Considering the damage he's done to me, I want my sisters to grow up and be more well-adjusted than I did. I've known all along of my potential, but my upbringing has led me to be down on myself countless times for wasting it during all those years. And of course I want to be successful, but I still greatly fear the possibility of screwing up again.

OK, so your dad's not an Aspie. My dad's a depressed drunk, too. And I got jacked around by him growing up... it's a lot easier to feel compassionate now that I have nothing to do with him. His life is going right down the tubes, he looks like hell and his health is shot. Sad to see that happen to anyone... I've wondered about him being Aspie, but it's hard to tell with the chronic alcoholism. I mean, were the rages and beatings meltdowns or just the alcohol?

Not all Aspies talk to themselves, for pete's sake.

Wanting your sisters to have a better situation is definitely a credit to you.

So what do you want to do here? I was thinking we could explore the mind, using Aspie curiosity to help understand how it creates suffering or ease for us. Learn how to work with the qualities of your own mind to enable you rather than disable you.

Success can be measured in a lot of ways...

Well, my dad's not in the least bit abusive... just apathetic. In fact, he avoids conflict whenever he can. However, he is definitely someone who could care less about a lot of things, it seems. I just don't want to feel like a failure in life because of his influence. He is very much responsible for the person I am now, especially considering that there was much, much more he could have done to prevent it.

Yes, but I don't want to be like some washed-up loser who considers himself successful even though all he does is sit around in his mom's basement, eat ramen noodles, start flame wars on 4chan and watch anime all day. At least I hope that's not what you're talking about when you mention "success".

OK, but now you're 19, a coming adult and ready to take charge of your own life, right?

Which means from here on out it's not your dad's fault. The mistakes you make are your own. What came before is done. Dwelling on the past is wasting your precious time and energy and really accomplishes nothing. By this I mean... you can spend an hour of your day being pissed off and resentful about what you didn't receive in the way of support growing up OR you can spend an hour of your day working on developing the skills you need.

Which do you think moves you closer to what you really want?



Erg.... no. People make poor substitutes for mushrooms. Though many do seem to be trying...

I was thinking more along the lines of reasonable goals. I don't know what yours are, but I know in college mine were pretty grand, and as I had no idea about the AS and hadn't been taught useful organizing skills, etc. I had no realistic plan for attaining them. Mid-life I became very disappointed in myself for not having accomplished my dreams (largely having to do with social justice and also working with horses). Now I better understand why. I found this article illuminating as well...
http://www.thatexplainseverything.com/e ... -derailed/

On the other hand, because I had a very strong wish to not grow up to be like my parents, I can say without doubt that I am not. I am a much kinder and saner person than either one of them. I am in a long-term relationship that is joyful and mutually supportive, which they never found or were able to create for themselves. There is still work to do, and now that I know about the AS, I have a better understanding of how to accomplish it.

My most important goal right now is to improve my communication skills; I want very much to be better received by NTs, and to be better able to understand others. I want this because I think I have a valuable perspective on many things, and I recognize that some of my AS traits may be interferring with my being heard. Some traits I can modulate, and some I need to learn how to explain so others won't be freaked out by them.

So this is the measure of success I am talking about... how to empower and enable you to accomplish the non-material aspects of your potential. Your overall sense of confidence, skill, being a part of the whole. A sense of trust in your own life and abilities. A feeling of joy and satisfaction with life.

This may lead to material well-being... I hope you always have enough. I have a sense, from what you've said about wishing to join in conversations and your concern about your sisters, that you want to be one of the positive beneficial members of the planet, trying to get along with others and prevent and heal harm.

You didn't respond to my query about Mind... perhaps because you're wary of what I might be talking about? By Mind I mean the whole of your experience, how you know your life, both intellectually and emotionally. How you perceive/receive your world and how you respond/react to it.

How to become the active creative force in your life, rather than victim of every wind that blows through.

Here's another thing I should probably mention: Since my Asperger's is rather mild, there are some traits that I may not share with others who have it. Here's a post from another thread:

This seems to describe my uncle a lot more than me. He never goes out (except to work), has very, VERY few friends that I know of, and has some tendencies which are incredibly socially suicidal(his impatience, his tendency to ramble on about things which interest him and no one else, talking to himself). However, unlike the description, he's definitely not dependent on others. He's been quite able to support himself throughout most of his adult life. I, however, wouldn't exactly consider myself satisfied with living in my own world all the time. I want to go outside, experience the wide world that's out there. But it seems that failure in trying to be social is hindering my will to keep trying.

There's also this quote:



Perhaps this would work if I were trying to avoid conversing, but that's not what I'm trying to do here. I want to break away from the attitude I had in high school, the idea that everyone else was scum, that I was superior to the general population and that I would only hang out with a select group. I'm not the way I used to be, but having little to no contact with peers over this past summer is bringing me down, big time.

The last thing I want to mention is, how do I know if, like my uncle, I lack empathy? There are times when I'm quite sure I don't, and times when I'm not so sure. One thing that's for sure is that I desire a soulmate, quite badly. I think about the prospect of having a girlfriend a lot, but women want a man who's caring and will make them feel good about themselves. I worry often that I lack the kind, warm heart that many women want in a man. I hear people tell me, "You'll find someone. There's someone out there for everyone," but I go unnoticed and ignored amongst the general female population. Do I just come across as an uncaring and possibly psychotic sociopath?

You, like myself, are an extroverted Aspie. Frankly, I think that's great. And you already know, the socializing aspect of autism makes it tough. But not impossible! I've done some fun things, met some great people, and had a good time overall. Yes, I've blown friendship after friendship, but now I've got 3 solid friends and we all know about the AS, which I didn't before, so things are getting better.

You're miles ahead of me at your age. Knowing that you're AS, you can read, study, and get the coaching you need to improve your social skills. Theatre is a great venue for that.

As for empathy... that's a tricky one. We're affected by...
A. the inability to read body language, so we're often unaware of someone's suffering
B. even when we get better at seeing and interpreting subtle cues (yes, it can be learned), the executive function or cognitive response is slow, so I find that the moment is passed and I've not responded properly
C. some level of alexithymia...

I find that I am able to respond and empathize very quickly with physical pain. If I see someone bleeding or struck, there is no gap in my reaction. But I am definitely often out to sea when someone is in emotional pain... though if they tell me what's going on with them, I can get there. Is this how it works for you?

I'm moderately affected by the alexithymia, I think. When I first started meditating, I had a difficult time separating and identifying my various emotions other than anger and depression. Anything more subtle was unknown territory. I had plenty of feelings, I'd just never worked with them, had no real understanding of them, had no way to utilize the info within them.

Over time and lots of meditation, I've become quite good at identifying and understanding my emotions, as well as not getting swept away by them (fewer meltdowns). Now I can use these emotions to help me understand others, to sympathize with them, to empathize with both their suffering and their joy. Which means I relate better!

Here's a thought that'll challenge you... Pain is not punishment and happiness is not a reward. These are just two experiences which we have opinions about.

I'm glad I haven't spent my life trying to be a mushroom, and I'm glad you don't want to either. Even if you go through life solo, there's some really fantastic stuff out in the big wide world... Plunge!! !

Life is an adventure or it's a waste.

Here's my two cents.

On the talking to yourself: Only do it in private.

Pacing: Who cares? I pace as well, only paranoid people care about it, it doesn't harm anyone so who cares?

My endnote is as follows, get real friends, not hipsters and people who want to "fix" you, people who like you for who you are, however there's another catch, for your friends to accept you for who you are, you have to accept them for who they are, the door swings both ways, hipsters and people who want to "fix" you for nonsensical reasons don't understand this and some ASers don't understand this either, real friendships are not born out of conformity, my friend TH has a word for people who conform for their "friendships", he calls them chameleons. This applies to everyone who is willing to listen and would rather be themselves then have some fake "friends" who don't really give a rip about you, real friends like you for who you are and don't mind your quirks and subjective preferences.

I'd personally rather hang out with a diverse crowd of real friends then a bunch of clones with no sense of individuality.

Real friends may give their personal advice and criticisms on a harmless quirk or lack of a social skill, but no real friend will threaten or intimidate you with lose of friendship if you don't abandon a harmless quirk or a lack of a social skill.

On the empathy issue:

I can definitely tell if someone's suffering, the only problem is trying to do something about it. Many times I get the feeling that if I try to help, I'll end up screwing things up more than they already are. A few months ago, two of my friends, who are CRAZY in love with each other, ended up having a disagreement which ended in a temporary (emphasis on the word temporary) break-up. One of them became so frustrated and pissed off that he threw his laptop across the room. When I tried to ask him what was going on, he snapped at me and threatened to do the same to me (he's not really a violent person, he just acted irrationally, at least I hope so). I was distraught after that, and because of it, I can no longer sum up the courage to help people with their emotional problems, feeling that I lack the insight and ability to do so.
The social cues and body language are an area I've been improving in over the years. Coming up with interesting conversation topics when people get bored of what I'm talking about, that's a different story.
Alexithymia... I can't seem to recall any time in which I couldn't express myself properly... could you maybe elaborate some more, give some examples maybe?

Well, I think in that particular instance your response was fine... his wasn't. Just because someone responds to you like an a**hole doesn't mean you are... it could well mean they are. Or at least having an a**hole moment. It's good to get independent feedback from others when something like that happens... ask someone else if you made a mistake or if that's just how things go sometimes.




That's where being a social spy might help... eavesdrop in public places and note how the conversation ebbs and flows and old topics get dropped or morphed into new ones...



There's several facets to it. For myself it was initially not being able to differentiate all my emotions well... anxiety vs excitement, anger vs competitiveness or fear, grief vs depression... that sort of thing. And often there is one strong emotion masking other more subtle emotions. Anger often does that. If I can get to the more subtle stuff, often I can address those more effectively and the anger just dissipates on its own.

Is that helpful?

Then, in a relationship, you can tell someone that something they are doing is causing you discomfort before you get angry and yell at them, for example. Or, before going into a situation you'll be aware of a very subtle anxiety which you can recognize and address prior to being in the situation, thus giving yourself some options for ways to respond instead of just freaking out on the spot.

In this world, it's important to cultivate courage. Facing a room full of people is not really all that different from kayaking white water. It's not about not being afraid, it's about facing your fear and going ahead anyway. Not letting your fear control you.

Why do you think astronauts wear diapers? LOL

I don't really see myself as "freaking out" over social situations, just getting bored with the conversation topics. And as for romantic relationships, I can't ever imagine myself getting enraged at my loved one, or anyone for that matter. I'm much more rational than that. Again, it's something that sounds a lot more like what my uncle would do. Trust me, I know. He remains really calm most of the time, but if I'm, say, hogging the bathroom while he desperately needs to get to work, he'll flip his s**t and start yelling loudly.

So you never get angry or have meltdowns?

I think I've managed to increase the duration of my apparent interest in conversations that bore me by internally speculating on why that individual finds that topic so engrossing, how their expression changes, etc.

And by the mere recognition that I bore others with my special interest and they are kind enough to listen longer than they'd like to, so it's only fair I do the same.

But put me in another room with someone--probably an Aspie--who runs on about something I don't give a rip about and I'll be desparately seeking an escape route in about 15 min if I can't get a word in sledge-wise and change the subject.

Listening to boring conversations is sort of like lifting weights... you've got to build up and strengthen your patience and tolerance over time.

Have you read "The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo" yet? (No, this has nothing to do with anything... I just finished it and one of the main characters is an Aspie).

I rarely ever get angry at people. I'm far more likely to break down and start crying, especially in situations like the two particularly intense ones that I just mentioned. I don't think I'm really predisposed to violence or anger, especially the way I was raised (my mom was really over-protective).

What is the strong emotion that triggers your crying? Crying is an action, not an emotion.

I'm a lot more likely to sink into depression than get angry over stuff. I find it much harder to get angry than to break down and lapse into tears. Some situations are just too much for me to handle, and I think some people, over the course of my lifetime, have used it as a weakness for them to take advantage of. When my friend snapped at me, I lost it. I was so emotionally distressed, and crying so hard that I could barely breathe, and I even had to throw up. Mind you, that had never happened before in my life. And as for the conflict with the girl, I attempted to apologize to her, but I was choked up and could barely function. She took advantage of this, and just kept throwing hurtful insults at me, trying to get me to go away, until she finally got fed up, leaned in close and said, in a firm, angry and irritated voice, "Get away from the desk. NOW."

Believe it or not, depression is not an emotion, it's more a composite of emotions. So what emotion-states do you experience in depression? Grief? Self-hatred? Inadequacy?



"Distressed" is too vague. Angry? Sad? Frustrated? Frightened?



"Choked up"... from what? Rage? Grief? Anxiety? Guilt?

I think that you are not as well acquainted with your internal states as could be useful to you. This is what I meant by learning to differentiate emotions at the subtle level, rather than just being swept away by the big 'Freaked Out' energy. Sit own and sort out the dump truck load of crap that overwhelms in these states and you'll begin to have a handle on how to better relate to and work with them.

Then, instead of being victimized and overwhelmed by these powerful responses, you'll be able to direct and channel the energy within them effectively. Or heal the deep heart wounds that the world hands us.