"Normal" people are stupid...

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I have to agree with you there, especially on your last two points. Not to be arrogant, but people at my school generally see me as the intelligent guy. It DOES unnerve them, though I don't know if it's the fact that I like to learn or that I know things that they don't. You're also right when you say being quiet creeps people out. I recall myself working in one of the science labs when someone came in and asking for me. One of the students (and a fairly nice one at that as far as they go) yelled out "He's over there miss, the weird kid in the corner". It was obviously true, most people agreed and the teacher didn't disagree.

Still, I think it all has to do with what you want out of conversation, I want information, other people want small talk.

I am a friendly and kind person. Honest to a fault.

While I am finishing my teaching credential, I have a PT job where I work on a team and am being forced out of my job for being a problem solver. I wasn't told that although the team's goal was to solve problems, you were simply supposed to *admire* the problems, not come up with solutions that would rock the proverbial boat. It actually has nothing to do with my job and my performance, it is that I rubbed the head chief the wrong way by shining light on the situation. Lesson learned. Ignorant leadership is worse than ignorance of the masses.

I appreciate a good honest divergent thinker. I have my opinions and I want to hear others. No recruiting. We need the diversity.
I don't think the rest of the world cares for aspies, though; because unless they are presenting a cure for some disease or a solution to the economy they are just viewed as an annoyance. Historically, they were jailed, hunted or worse. Galileo was under house arrest. Socrates, given hemlock, and all he did was ask questions. It's Christmas eve and look what happened to JC 30 something years later.

Why is human nature so intensely fear based? I doubt that will be evolving in my lifetime.

It's truly sad that we have to hide our talents in some environments. Is it so creepy that we are dedicated to learning new skills and (gulp) research/learning? People ASK me for my input and then it puts them off? I could be isolated to the point of cruelty over this.

Lastly, Avarice, I enjoy "weird" people. The corner spot is the best military position/strategy in that science lab. lol. Just incase the smart kid was ever under attack.

Oh, and P.S. I did come up with a possible solution to the economy. With all the billions of dollars for the bail out money, the government could have bought the mortgages, kept the affordable payment amount by giving a 50 year amortization option. The interest earned on those extra 20 years could have put a huge dent into the national deficit. Jobs would have been saved and the spiral leading to all the foreclosures would have ceased instead of screwing the value of all real estate. Most people move before paying off their mortgage anyway. Atleast in California.

So do I, and I'm an NT.

Generally speaking: The intelligence here is not in displaying brilliance in having the most factual knowledge about a subject. The intelligence is to know when it is appropriate, relevant, useful or even interesting for your interlocutors for you all to expand the conversation, and when NOT to do it. Most NTs I know have an impressive knowledge about their favourite interests, but they more often than not know when to display it and when not to. That's the most useful kind of intelligence in a social setting.
If you aspies find it so excrutiatingly meaningless to discuss with people who you believe are less smarter than you, why do you bother? And if you find comfort in having "the last laugh" because you're the smarter one, the others will almost certainly have the last laugh concerning what they know is the most important thing: to have a meaningful and rewarding interaction with other people.

Jaydee, part of having Asperger's is not being able to read those social cues you pointed out. You mentioned you are an NT so I imagine it would be hard to conceptualize that. It's the way our brain is wired, not some snobby behavior we pick up.

This next statement is kind of lashing out. You wrote, "And if you find comfort in having 'the last laugh' because you're the smarter one, the others will almost certainly have the last laugh concerning what they know is the most important thing: to have a meaningful and rewarding interaction with other people.[/quote]" If you added "to NTs" somewhere in that I would buy it. Otherwise, you are generalizing and trying to get a round peg into a square hole.

In my opinion, aspies don't laugh at people, they are laughed at all the time and they have a sensitivity to emotional pain.

Yes, AnnV, I know that this goes to the core of the asperger problem. The thing is, I'm not quite sure if those aspies who express frustration because they find it difficult to have meaningful conversations with NTs really do believe that NTs are stupid gits who have the intellectual range of a teaspoon or whether it is just frustration talking. Believing that one's NT interlocutors are less intelligent is not a great way of contributing to establish a good atmosphere for communication and getting friends. NTs are less stupid than what some aspies seem to think. They do notice that their aspie interlocutor is "different" than what they are, they know how people can be very different as to what they find interesting to talk about, and how some people are more introvert than others. But, generally, NTs are not extremely patient, so they quickly lose interest if their interlocutor only seems interested in talking about their own interests. And the silly thing is that the NTs are in majority, so whether they like it or not, most aspies will have to relate to them sooner or later. And if they want NTs to learn more and treat the aspie minority with the interest and respect it deserves, dismissing NT smalltalk and conversation as shallow, is no way to go. I know it is difficult for NTs and aspies alike, but we all have to try to accept that having a different style of communicating is not the same as being unintelligent or shallow.

Concerning the second part: It was sort of implied that what NTs find meaningful of course is meaningful to them, but I totally see that I should've formulated this a bit differently.
And about the "last laugh" - this was a reaction to what one person wrote about always having the last laugh for being more intelligent than the NTs. Aspies having problems with understanding and reacting adequately to other people's communication is no laughing matter, because unfortunately they always risk that the last laugh is on them.

So Jaydee,

Why are you cruising around WP discussions if you are an NT?

For me, this is a haven where I can be myself and chat with people with the same struggles. Perhaps even feel accepted, honored, appreciated and most of all, not alone in my unique ways.

Instead, I feel like you are warping my posts in extreme black or white thinking because perhaps you don't understand what it is like to be an aspie. Most of us, aren't wired to appreciate simple chit chat and find it non-stimulating. I'm not trying to recruit anyone to follow suit, I'm stating the lens I see my life through and I feel you are saying my lens is wrong. It's different.

Even your very first sentence states, "...that this goes to the core of the asperger *problem*." "Problem" is subjective and I am beginning to find your posts offensive.

I am not sure if I have Asperger's - my son was diagnosed, and I think I recognize some of the behaviors in myself. I'm also pretty sure my hubby is, which may be why we get along so well. The OP and many others' posts felt very very familiar. Not that I've ever been called out that way, but the disdain for smalltalk (if only because I don't get it - don't know how), and the way people look at you when you're talking. In business school, students would make various comments during class that would generally lead to other comments. Many times, when I would make a comment, there would be almost a stunned silence. It was as if I were speaking another language. It was appreciated more in the Ph.D. program - by professors, not necessarily other students. I suppose I came off as pedantic, but I was just saying the thoughts that came to mind - usually more abstract than a typical b-school student likes to discuss. Anyway, where are all you people when I need someone to talk to? I love to be social, but I generally suck at it.

As for the previous few posts between the NT and the aspie, I think I can understand both views. But to the NT, just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get me...

It's called "small talk" which is just about all NT's ever do. I am of the opinion most NT's talk incessantly becaise they are in love with the sound of their own voices. I have observed that to NT's, saying something for the sake of saying it is more important than saying something meaningful.

As far as expanding conversations goes (as mentioned in the original post), I cannot imagine why an NT would accuse an Aspie of doing this when they do it non-stop.

What do you want out of life? That's the question I'd be asking...

AnnV: You react to me talking about some of the "problems of Asperger".
You wrote: "part of having Asperger's is not being able to read those social cues you pointed out."
I can absolutely see how not being able to read social cues will not constitute a problem for some people with AS. However, it is widely acknowledged in research on Asperger's that not being able to read social cues is one of the most recognizable traits of AS and that this in fact constitutes a problem for many because they have to move around in a predominantly NT world and bear with lack of understanding from the majority (cf. hundreds of debates and debate contributions on this forum). Not being able to read social cues is of course no problem if the aspie does not socialize with NTs at all, or if he/she does not care at all that they are met with less respect and understanding than they deserve in their interaction with NTs. But from all the frustrated contributions on this forum, I dare say that not being able to read social cues is in fact experienced as a problem for a large number of aspies.

I also understand that it is extremely rewarding to be a part of the Wrongplanet community and share experiences and air frustration with others. But I cannot see that it is wrong to point out some things from an NT perspective, particularly since many aspies express that it is difficult to understand why it is so hard to meet decent NTs to talk to and befriend. What I react to when it comes to debates like this one (it is actually named: "Normal people are stupid") is the focus on the alleged stupidity of NTs. I know that this is a generalization, but I don't think generalizations are good for creating more understanding (something which many aspies express an earnest wish for). Sure, it is easy for an aspie to become exasperated with the incessant (and shallow) smalltalk - the same way it is easy for an NT to become exasperated with the aspie way of communicating. Apies and NTs shouldn't accuse one another for being stupid or arrogant, we should try to respect each other. However, if this debate was only meant as an opportunity to vent frustrations and not really debate the subject matter, I do apologize profoundly.

As to your first question: I hang out here because I have aspies in my family and I have an aspie friend. And the more I learn about AS, the better I can understand their perspective on things.

I totally relate...I hate small talk, but I know with NT's you have to kinda get a "feel" for the other person before diving in. No fun. I would rather talk about what I learned on my 3 fave channels History channel, discovery channel or Nat Geo or something I learned in art school. The whole Hi how re you thing is anoying. When I ask that question...I dont want just ...fine. I really want to know.

but as far as your cousins go, there is alot they dont know because they are obviously nieve. Cops become cops because they are control freaks and they rather be THE law so they wont be outlaws. They are usualy, from my experience, legalized outlaws. Only a few cops go into the badge with a desire to serve, and protect the community and they are usually the first ones to get killed in a shoot out...go figure.

So I hope that made you feel alittle better...I "expanded the conversation" so you did not have to

Expanding the conversation....is a bad thing????? I know alot of NT conversations that can use some expansion!!

well your cousin may learn some days that cops are just deupty dogs looking for a bone to chew...or maybe not.

speaking about small Talk

well said

I am an NT here because I WANT to see through the lens so I can be successful with you in a conversation. I have a daughter that I see with developmental issues not yet diagnosed in any way but there are things in her life that are harder for her that are not hard for "most" People. So I have to learn How to teach her so she "gets it"

I agree there are many stupid People of all kinds, shapes and colors, and there are intellectual genius that are boring to most people but are Valued still for the gift they offer the world in there contribution to mankind.

As an NT who cant stand small talk from an NT point of view that was told for years by my (possibly aspie husband) that "I could not comprehend what he was thinking" or "was incapable of having an intellectual conversation" all RUDE comments they may have been his real thinking belief what ever you want to word it. But putting down another is never OK in the Big World.

I am in the professional world and have to use a great deal of gray matter everyday and solve complex interconnected issues to succeed in my work and have it look good too. I love a good conversation and yes even for us NT's they are rarer then normal. yet valued when they are shared with someone who cares about what you are speaking about.

A key to conversation is the interest level of the people talking. I am fascinated by my field and know it is one of those fields you never can stop learning in ... Yet I know that many people are quickly bored with my level of interest just as I am bored with there conversation about what they ate for breakfast. or who tigger woods is with today.

But that is human Difference - it exists all around us WE all have to learn to value the strengths of the people in our lives even if there are things that drive us crazy about hem too.

We all have a gift to offer our world. stereotypical comments about any section of mankind only causes division and war. not peace and acceptance of the varied society.

Synopsis of every conversation, ever:

Them: [Topic start]

Me: [Thoughtful response, often a solution to a problem they haven't thought of]

Them: " ... You're annoying."

Nobody wants to improve this place, everybody just wants to Get Theirs. Screw normal people, let's take over the moon and live together in a peaceful utopia away from all the BS. Anybody with me?

... and the difference is?!

I tend to talk forever. It's a trait that's not only a part of Asperger's, but inherent in my family line. I know neurotypicals can't stand it, so I consider this sort of thing to be a kind of 'hijacking', and the closest indulgence I have to sadism. Bare with me, indeed.

I try to spike up what I talk about to make the listener keep focus. Change thoughts at about the speed I do, give a good presentation (I've learned some great acting skills this way), skip over the boring bits to get to the really interesting stuff, etc. As a result, I have a few really good friends that enjoy hearing my long but thoughtful ramblings, and then a whole bunch of acquaintances that don't like spending time around me.

Perfect.

... sounds very much like my own situation.