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Fnord
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21 Aug 2011, 4:48 pm

Jory wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Oh! But we offer salvation and eternal life through the everlasting Blood of the Lamb! A life of pain and suffering to His Glorious Name! Poverty, which is wealth! A broken spirit, which is wholeness! Servitude, which is freedom! Sorrow, which is joy! Misery, which is ecstasy! Death, which is life! Does it all make sense now?

Whoa there. Just wait a DAMN minute. Are you implying that religion doesn't make any sense?

I imply no such thing, sir! Check out My Blog sometime. The first article should clarify things completely...


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dopplercb
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21 Aug 2011, 5:24 pm

MissConstrue wrote:
or one who lacks a belief or perspective of something divine. I feel like an outcast with the vast majority of people. I usually try and respect people of faith and never go into the kind of debates you see in the Religious forum. But in reality, I'm always honest with my opinions when asked of my perspectives and beliefs regarding religion. I've had many people take my opinions as if they were personal attacks and try to get into debates with me. For a long time I felt like I had to be dishonest and pretend that I believed in God. Eventually I tried to be honest but tried to be polite by saying "Yeah I believe in God, just not in the biblical sense. Now I'm sick and tired of having to pretend. I don't ever engage in rants or fights whenever someone preaches openly about their faith especially on FaceBook. I am however offended when I find something funny on a religious spectacle and blog it without saying much. I've even had people unfriend me because of it. I really don't understand where you draw the line when it comes to freedom of speech without offending someone.


Am I alone on this issue? I'm not sure if I'm wording this in the best way. It just seems like I'm very alienated. I'm also getting very sick and tired of these myths revolving around atheism as if it were a cult or a set up for a Stalin-like communism where society is not allowed to worship their own beliefs. As a atheist/agnostic that is not what I'm about. I simply lack the belief in a divine entity/ies. I respect and never try and debate with people of religious faiths but I'm sick and tired of people who debate me about it as if they were more righteous than myself. If friendship means I have to agree with the belief of god or being of a religious faith then that is where problems will arrise.


have you ever been to infidels.org? they have a discussion board there where you can debate to your heart's content about the existence of god with theists that aren't offended and you will also have the nicety of a backing from infidel's atheist core.

as far as trying not to ruffle religious feathers, if I am engaged, I go full tilt. I did a facebook campaigned about 2.5 months ago on facebook wherein I confronted the bible by using it against itself, by pointing out the atrocities and absurdities found within. I lost one friend over it and was asked to stop by many others. guess I went about it wrong, lol. anyway, I have a darwin fish on my facebook page. explains it all.



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21 Aug 2011, 5:40 pm

rabidmonkey4262 wrote:
Quite frankly, if religion is your only motivation to be a good person, then you got some big issues. I also know alot of self-righteous religious types that are terrible human beings.


this. I just had this argument with my father the other day. he was saying that sometimes religion is needed for a person to see right and wrong, to which I responded that such people are either morally weak or deranged. the average person does not need the threat of hellfire and damnation to realize taking something that isn't yours is wrong, or that shooting a person who has done nothing to you to warrant such actions is wrong. but whatev.



Knowingspy
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21 Aug 2011, 5:40 pm

It doesn't matter what religion you are, it really matters if you understand what's right and what's wrong. Religion in my opinion is a way of defining the right choices in life to make and it doesn't matter if you are an atheist because you don't suddenly lose your moral compass overnight. One day you don't wake up and decide I'm going to rob a bank simply because you're an atheist, it's really based upon your surroundings and hw you are raised that makes the difference.



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21 Aug 2011, 5:51 pm

cyberscan wrote:
You are right. It is a difference between worldviews. I am not an atheist, but I do understand why people become / are atheists. Whatever someone's religion, he or she usually hates that religion being attacked, put down, or made fun of. Religion, whether it is based on the existence or absence of god(s), is simply a set of beliefs that explains where we come from and where we are going. Hence, I consider Christianity, Islam, Evolutionism, Shinto, Buddhism, etc. religions since they each attempt to answer the questions of where we come from and where we are going.

If is usually best to avoid discussions of religion or politics due to the fact that most people dislike their religion and or political beliefs being questioned or made fun of. Very few people can actually sit down and discuss their belief system with another person of a different belief system without one or more parties becoming offended. If I post a funny picture, quote, etc of another belief system, I tend to make it available to only people of my belief system or similar. I suggest that others do the same.

For those who believe a certain thing, no proof is necessary, for those who disbelieve a certain thing, no proof is acceptable.


evolution is science, not religion.



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21 Aug 2011, 5:53 pm

serenity wrote:
We have found a couple of groups of freethinkers nearby. We will be attending one for the first time this weekend. It's extraordinarily difficult for me to meet new people and attend new events period, but I am gonna put my anxiety aside and give it a try.


good luck with this. I would like to try this but am too socially messed up to consider it. I would just sit there and nod. I am, however, vocal about my atheism on facebook.



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21 Aug 2011, 5:57 pm

leviathans wrote:
In Canada (and in many places in Europe) most people are not religious so it's religious people who are looked at weirdly. In Canada nobody would vote for a prime minister if he would openly talk about is beliefs in god. I'm not even kidding.


yet another reason to move to canada.



jc6chan
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21 Aug 2011, 5:57 pm

Knowingspy wrote:
It doesn't matter what religion you are, it really matters if you understand what's right and what's wrong. Religion in my opinion is a way of defining the right choices in life to make and it doesn't matter if you are an atheist because you don't suddenly lose your moral compass overnight. One day you don't wake up and decide I'm going to rob a bank simply because you're an atheist, it's really based upon your surroundings and hw you are raised that makes the difference.

Well, the thing is that without religion, whats right and whats wrong can potentially get slippery at times. Not trying to say that atheists have no morals, but I'm just trying to point out that different religions set different moral standards. Of course, even some people who profess to follow a certain religion doesn't really care about its rules and regulations. You point out that its based upon your surroundings and how you were raised, well, for some people, its being raised in a religious family that has them a set of moral standards to live by. Again, of course, atheist parents also teach their children morals and ethics but there isn't really a standard to go by, and its more of "what the society thinks" or "how your conscience feels".

IMO, one thing that lots of people look towards (which I think is a mistake, not trying to offend anyone here) is how people who profess a religion behave rather than how the religion sets up moral standards. I just don't see that athiests have a FIXED moral standard. Many of them say that "morals are relative" and I don't agree with that view.

As for being friends, of course I would be friends any day with a person of any belief. The only time when it may be impossible to be friends is if they are hurting me (physically or otherwise) or if they cause me to comprimise my beliefs in order to keep the friendship.



Last edited by jc6chan on 21 Aug 2011, 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dopplercb
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21 Aug 2011, 5:58 pm

USMCnBNSFdude wrote:
It's the other way around for me. I'm Catholic, but everyone I meet is an atheist or bible beating baptist, and it's usually the former. If I say one word about my beliefs, I'm labeled a ret*d or a sinner.

Quote:
It just seems like I'm very alienated. I'm also getting very sick and tired of these myths revolving around atheism (catholicism) as if it were a cult or a set up for a Stalin (Mussolini)-like communism (fascism) where society is not allowed to worship their own beliefs. As a atheist/agnostic (Roman Catholic) that is not what I'm about. I simply lack the belief (denial) in a divine entity/ies. I respect and never try and debate with people of religious faiths but I'm sick and tired of people who debate me about it as if they were more righteous than myself. If friendship means I have to (not) agree with the belief of god or being of a religious faith then that is where problems will arise.

This is me. And it's ironic considering I live in a country that's always called religiously fundamentalist, much less the state of Texas.


you live in texas and run into MORE atheists? wow.



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21 Aug 2011, 6:00 pm

gadge wrote:
A person doesnt have to believe in a god or any higher power to be a person with morals or standards. Morality and religion do not go hand n hand.


preach it!



EllenDee
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21 Aug 2011, 6:00 pm

starryeyedvoyager wrote:
It is impossible - at least for me - to imagine how it feels like to be dead. So, I have to come up with something that fills this gap.


I honestly can't imagine a divine creator that is all powerful and all knowing either. Filling that particular "gap" with religion seems a little silly.



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21 Aug 2011, 6:02 pm

Fnord wrote:
Jory wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Yesterday, I actually heard one of them ask, "Why wouldn't they want to be like us?" :roll:

Such a question should be answered with: “Why would I?”

Oh! But we offer salvation and eternal life through the everlasting Blood of the Lamb! A life of pain and suffering to His Glorious Name! Poverty, which is wealth! A broken spirit, which is wholeness! Servitude, which is freedom! Sorrow, which is joy! Misery, which is ecstasy! Death, which is life!

Does it all make sense now?


best. post. ever.



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21 Aug 2011, 6:02 pm

Jory wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Oh! But we offer salvation and eternal life through the everlasting Blood of the Lamb! A life of pain and suffering to His Glorious Name! Poverty, which is wealth! A broken spirit, which is wholeness! Servitude, which is freedom! Sorrow, which is joy! Misery, which is ecstasy! Death, which is life!

Does it all make sense now?


Whoa there. Just wait a DAMN minute.

Are you implying that religion doesn't make any sense?

Because that talking snake was REAL, sir.


:D



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21 Aug 2011, 6:08 pm

Knowingspy wrote:
It doesn't matter what religion you are, it really matters if you understand what's right and what's wrong. Religion in my opinion is a way of defining the right choices in life to make and it doesn't matter if you are an atheist because you don't suddenly lose your moral compass overnight. One day you don't wake up and decide I'm going to rob a bank simply because you're an atheist, it's really based upon your surroundings and hw you are raised that makes the difference.


are you implying an atheist may not lose their moral compass right off, but will eventually? I would have to disagree with that.

I think when it comes right down to it, religion is mainly used to scare children into good behavior when a parent's words aren't enough. the child then grows to believe in god.

personally, I hate religion and would gladly walk around talking s**t about how bad it is, but then no one would want anything to do with me, and it's already hard with being a socially awkward individual anyway.



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21 Aug 2011, 6:14 pm

jc6chan wrote:
IMO, one thing that lots of people look towards (which I think is a mistake, not trying to offend anyone here) is how people who profess a religion behave rather than how the religion sets up moral standards. I just don't see that athiests have a FIXED moral standard. Many of them say that "morals are relative" and I don't agree with that view.


morals are not necessarily relative, but they are different in different areas. like it being frowned upon to kill your non-virgin teen daughter here, but ecouraged in many islamic countries for their having brought shame upon their family. I am an atheist and I will say that, with my FIXED moral view, this is utterly wrong. and with my atheism I will say this barbarism is the result of RELIGION.

and don't forget the crusades, please. christianity, and no religion, have moral authority all wrapped up. even those relatively peace-loving religious people haven't always been, in history, on the moral high ground. if history has shown us anything, it is that the religious do not have a fixed morality.



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21 Aug 2011, 6:24 pm

jc6chan wrote:
Many of them say that "morals are relative" and I don't agree with that view.


I think a lot of people's viewpoint "relativity" of morals depends on what they are talking about. It certainly does not mean that it might be ok to do something one day but not the next, or ok for one person and not another. It is actually a recognition that situations are complex, and that the moral response needs to be complex too.

Not having "relativity" in morals can lead to situations like killing of rape victims because they have broken the rules about sex outside of marriage.