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A friend just assumed that I was going to pay her way

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Sweetleaf
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07 Jul 2019, 4:25 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
red_doghubb wrote:
Fnord wrote:
red_doghubb wrote:
Fnord wrote:
red_doghubb wrote:
... if you knew anything about includes the belief that a woman pays her own way.
Well, that IS a basic idea of feminism. However, it does not take into account those many nominal 'feminists' who see nothing wrong with exploiting men for their wealth and property.
"nominal" being the key word.
Feminism has mutated from its original intent (e.g., equal rights and opportunities for women) into a movement to exploit men at every opportunity. Egalitarianism, on the other hand, is a movement to treat everyone equally.
uh, no, but as usual no woman on WP is ever going to talk a man on WP out of his fixed beliefs re: women, so I won't continue to try
Sure, you can try, but it would take an argument much more reasonable than insinuating that all men are closed-minded -- a very sexist idea, by the way.


It would be sexist if red had of expressed the idea that all men have the same paranoid attitude towards feminism; and that no men understand that feminism is egalitarian and not merely a conspiracy to punish men, however, that's not something she said or even implied.

She's on to something though (if I'm interpreting this correctly), that most men with those paranoid attitudes are beyond help because they'll simply ignore any evidence that doesn't support their bias. After leading a few unwilling horses to water it's often easier to shrug and not care if they choose to die of dehydration.


Well based on recent posts I could say a lot of guys who post that kind of stuff have certainly decided they are incels and thus must be a**holes to women whenever the get the chance to give their revenge to women who didn't accept them sh*tty attitude and all and 'denied them' the sex they were entitled to simply by being at an event and not feeling like having sex with whatever random dude first comes up asking for it.


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funeralxempire
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07 Jul 2019, 6:45 am

Fnord wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
Fnord wrote:
egalitarianism:
1 : a belief in human equality especially with respect to social, political, and economic affairs
2 : a social philosophy advocating the removal of inequalities among people

feminism:
1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

So, according to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, the word "feminism' carries with it a focus on women's rights and interests, while "egalitarianism focuses on equal rights for all.

There's nothing closed-minded about that, unless people are trying to challenge the Merriam-Webster editors and writers to re-define the meaning of "feminism" to suit their own personal agendas Egalitarianism IS better than feminism because egalitarianism is all-inclusive, and feminism is not.
I don't disagree, but it also means that egalitarianism is better than the black lives matter -movement, pride -movement, movements that drive forward the rights of autistic (or any other type of disabled) people etc. After all, these movements also focus on a certain group of people, not everyone. However, they aren't any more right or wrong than feminism. It's just that having different, separate movements makes it easier for people to support one specific group they feel like they can help or, in some cases, want to help...
It also makes it easier for only a few groups to get most of the funding and support while leaving other groups out in the cold. Think about it ...

When was the last time a special-interest group other than the Antifa, the Feminists or the LGBTQ crowd got free publicity from all of the major networks for having their own Pride Parade in a major metropolitan area?


Since when has ANTIFA had anything of their own? Their whole existence is defined by reaction and opposition. Beyond that one issue they come from all over the fractured left, just like the folks who showed up to fight against Franco. For that matter, when has the media ever treated ANTIFA or black bloc groups in a non-critical manner?
:?


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Fireblossom
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07 Jul 2019, 7:14 am

Fnord wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
Fnord wrote:
egalitarianism:
1 : a belief in human equality especially with respect to social, political, and economic affairs
2 : a social philosophy advocating the removal of inequalities among people

feminism:
1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

So, according to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, the word "feminism' carries with it a focus on women's rights and interests, while "egalitarianism focuses on equal rights for all.

There's nothing closed-minded about that, unless people are trying to challenge the Merriam-Webster editors and writers to re-define the meaning of "feminism" to suit their own personal agendas Egalitarianism IS better than feminism because egalitarianism is all-inclusive, and feminism is not.
I don't disagree, but it also means that egalitarianism is better than the black lives matter -movement, pride -movement, movements that drive forward the rights of autistic (or any other type of disabled) people etc. After all, these movements also focus on a certain group of people, not everyone. However, they aren't any more right or wrong than feminism. It's just that having different, separate movements makes it easier for people to support one specific group they feel like they can help or, in some cases, want to help...
It also makes it easier for only a few groups to get most of the funding and support while leaving other groups out in the cold. Think about it ...

When was the last time a special-interest group other than the Antifa, the Feminists or the LGBTQ crowd got free publicity from all of the major networks for having their own Pride Parade in a major metropolitan area?


True, that's a downside of it, but nothing's perfect.

Again, true, the only ones I've seen having something like that are Antifa and LGBTQ groups. Feminism too if we count Me Too, although that's against sexual harrasment in general instead of sexual harrasment against women. Then again, women are much more likely to end up as victims of such acts and often do, so I suppose it could have a strong connections to feminism...

But actually, in my home country, people actively preaching about climate change has had even more power over the media lately than the pride movement. Though I suppose that doesn't count since it doesn't seem to have gotten so big in a world wide scale.



funeralxempire
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07 Jul 2019, 7:31 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
red_doghubb wrote:
Fnord wrote:
red_doghubb wrote:
Fnord wrote:
red_doghubb wrote:
... if you knew anything about includes the belief that a woman pays her own way.
Well, that IS a basic idea of feminism. However, it does not take into account those many nominal 'feminists' who see nothing wrong with exploiting men for their wealth and property.
"nominal" being the key word.
Feminism has mutated from its original intent (e.g., equal rights and opportunities for women) into a movement to exploit men at every opportunity. Egalitarianism, on the other hand, is a movement to treat everyone equally.
uh, no, but as usual no woman on WP is ever going to talk a man on WP out of his fixed beliefs re: women, so I won't continue to try
Sure, you can try, but it would take an argument much more reasonable than insinuating that all men are closed-minded -- a very sexist idea, by the way.


It would be sexist if red had of expressed the idea that all men have the same paranoid attitude towards feminism; and that no men understand that feminism is egalitarian and not merely a conspiracy to punish men, however, that's not something she said or even implied.

She's on to something though (if I'm interpreting this correctly), that most men with those paranoid attitudes are beyond help because they'll simply ignore any evidence that doesn't support their bias. After leading a few unwilling horses to water it's often easier to shrug and not care if they choose to die of dehydration.


Well based on recent posts I could say a lot of guys who post that kind of stuff have certainly decided they are incels and thus must be a**holes to women whenever the get the chance to give their revenge to women who didn't accept them sh*tty attitude and all and 'denied them' the sex they were entitled to simply by being at an event and not feeling like having sex with whatever random dude first comes up asking for it.


Those ones are certainly among the ones I'm describing as 'refusing to drink', but they're like the distilled version of the attitude, there seems to be even more who are just the 'raw' type.


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Benjamin the Donkey
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09 Jul 2019, 4:42 am

Fnord wrote:
red_doghubb wrote:
... if you knew anything about includes the belief that a woman pays her own way.
Well, that IS a basic idea of feminism. However, it does not take into account those many nominal 'feminists' who see nothing wrong with exploiting men for their wealth and property.

I know plenty of women who call themselves feminists, and all of them pay their own way. I think you need to meet new people.


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