A different version of "busy" excuse

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PART 2:

Well, for the same reason you told me a couple of days ago to make sure that I talk to both girls and guys rather than just girls: because if it is just girls I come across as a creep. So I was thinking "they probably noticed I am focused on girls too much, so I better show thats not the case".

But in any case, to give you bigger context, it wasn't the first time that particular girl interracted with me; more like 100-th time. And those 100 interactions didn't result in her inviting me places "outside" of that Christian fellowship (remember this event was part of the fellowship). Thats why I didn't count her as one of my friends and, instead, was obsessing over making friends other than her. Well, admittedly, I did not care about male friends either. So that particular situation was really between two rides neither of which I care that much about.

So you might ask: if I didn't care much about the situation, why did I get upset? Well, I guess it was because I was thinking that those guys were trying to keep me from girls in general. So even if I didn't care that much about that specific girl, I cared about the principle of it.

I guess part of it is that those guys seemed like bullies. Because they started talking about me in a loud voice when I was not evne part of the conversation. Thats what triggered me to come and ask them what they were saying, and then immediately after that they offered me a ride. So I felt like they were playing a game on me where they would purposely take me away from the girl for laughs.

But its also possible I misinterpretted the whole situation. I mean, as I mentioned in one of my earlier responses, I don't remember names and faces of most people (well I remembered the face of THAT girl and a couple of others, but it is only a small minority of people whom I remember). So maybe if those guys talked to me before, and they assumed I know them, while for me they were total strangers, that would have been a reason why I felt like they were bullies when they weren't. But I guess that was few years ago, in a different school, so there is no way for me to find out from where I am sitting now.

The other thing that occurred to me, just as I type, is that I was thinking it was all about me without thinking about the impact it had on that girl. For example, I was thinking "what are those guys thinking of *me* that they are taking *me* away from women", "I better prove to those guys that *I* am not too women-focused", etc. But I never asked myself a question "Am I being rude to *her* by going back with someone else". But now that I do ask this question, I actually don't know the answer. On the one hand, I was the one getting ride from her, not the other way around. So she didn't really benefit from said interaction and if I don't need her ride then she is fine. But on the other hand, most people when they come together they leave together as well, so if I do it differently then she might wonder if I am mad at her for something, and so it might be rude to her from that point of view. I guess it all depends on how I phrase my reasons to change plans. If I knew who those guys were this would have helped (which again goes back to remembering names/faces). But even then I guess it would depend on the specifics of my interaction with her, with them, etc. So I am not that sure one way or the other. What do you think?

And by the way, now that I speak of that girl, I began to see better what you meant when you talked about my contributting to friendship. Because you see, in the situation with the waitress, that advise totally confused me because I didn't have said friendship with her on the first place. But in case of that girl who wanted to give me a ride, it makes a lot more sense since she actually talked to me a lot. So could it be that the reason I was confused by your advice is that you were thinking of people that do talk to me (such as the girl that wanted to give me a ride) while I were thinking of people that don't (such as waitresses at the restaurants)?

So then maybe my mistake is "not" the fact that I insist I can't really do much, but "rather" the fact that I am focusing on the wrong people? In case of that Christian fellowship, I simply assumed that the girl that was giving me a ride had nothing to offer and my sole focus was why all the "other" girls at that fellowship didn't talk to me (and I was using that particular girl as someone to complain to about this). But maybe if I were to forget about all the other girls and instead ask "what can I do to contribute to my friendship with this girl" then instead of complaining to her I could have been asking her how is she doing in school, etc. this in turn might have made her open up to me more, and so then she herself would have "counted" as a friend regardless of whether I have any other friends (although of course this would have also facilitated my interaction with the friends she had).

I guess the reason I didn't do this is because I assumed that she has nothing to offer. But maybe she did, just "not to me", since I didn't offer anything myself? So maybe if I did put more effort she would have offered more than I thought she could? But this thought never crossed my mind since I was focused on the other girls, and when I focus on Topic A, I don't think about Topic B, which is a very aspie feature.

But that is just my own theory of how to make sense of your advice. You didn't actually say this. So let me ask you whether or not thats what you meant. In other words, here is a question for you. You said I should have contributted more to my friendships. So, if I stick to the example of that fellowship: would that advice translate into contributting more to the friendship with that particular girl, or would it translate into contributting more to friendship with the other girls whom I was obsessing about? In case of this particular girl, yes this makes total sense. In case of other girls, it doesn't make that much sense since they weren't talking to me on the first place. But if you did include other girls then maybe you see something I don't, and maybe you can help me see it by elaborating?

In any case, this is not relevant to me now. Because like I said it was many years ago, and at a different school. A while after I transferred out, I cussed her out on facebook (due to my anger at someone else) and she blocked me. So her friendship is non-issue. However, some of the current examples I can think of (that both include men and women) are the following:

a) The leader of the Bible study group I talked about earlier. Well, he is a man in his 60-s, so he is not one of the people I am fixating on. But since we both said I shouldn't focus exclusively on girls, maybe thats one place to start. I clearly know how to start a conversation with him, since I started a conversation asking him why people don't like me. So maybe instead of asking that, I should ask about his wife and his kids. In fact, now that I think about it, I even have an idea what to ask. He mentioned few weeks ago his daughter had covid. So I can ask whether she recovered or not.

b) At one of the churches I go to here in New Mexico, I ran on a woman whom I knew from over a decade ago when I did my first ph.d. in Michigan. She is married now. At first she was excited to see me and told all her friends she met me in a desert. I was equally excited but I didn't express it verbally, so her excitement died off (especially after I made a couple of racial remarks about her black husband). Yes, I apologized to her for those remarks and she said she forgave me. I was then asking her if she forgave me how come she is less excited to see me than before. She said that it is because now she has a kid (which she didn't have before) so she is not hosting Bible studies any more (which is where she invited me back then). Now, back then I remember she talked about other things besides Bible studies (for example she invited me to Run for the Zoo event and was contemplating camping in the summer) which kinda fell off the table. But maybe instead of asking her about this, I can instead ask her about her son and how it goes, and this would perhaps help since it would show her I care about her life not just the way it relates to me.

c) There is a woman probably in her 60s whom I met in my math classes who talked to me from time to time. In terms of dating, I am not interested in that age group; but in terms of friendship I enjoyed whatever little interaction I had with her. As a matter of fact, she connected me with one of her favorite (male) professors in a different school. This didn't go anywhere partly because he didn't agree with my ideas and partly because I kind of put off reading his work (oh by the way, maybe I should make time to read his work and get back to him now that I am thinking of it). But in any case, going back to this woman: she asked me to translate certain thing for her into Russian two years ago, I said I would, but I forgot to do that. She met me in the store few days ago. I didn't recognize her but she did (that was the woman that I mentioned in the other post whom I asked about her eyes being opposite-to-crossed). In any case, when she met me she mentioned that thing that I didn't translate and she said its okay because she found some Russian people that would translate it for her. I said that I still want to be the one who translates. She said that if I want to translate it I can go ahead and do that because those Russian people didn't get back to her yet. So I asked her to email me the thing she wanted to translate, and she did. But, once again, I put it off and didn't get back to it. Well, now that I am reminded about it by what I am writing just now, maybe I can go ahead and translate it to her. Other than that, we had a good conversation. Those Russian people she told me about are in Michigan, and I remember back when I was graduating from Michigan my mom introduced me to some Russian couple there which are friends-of-friends of her. I asked that woman whether the Russian people she is thinking of are the same because the last name she mentioned sort of rings the bell and sort of not. She said she would inquire. So I guess -- when I send her that translation -- I can again ask her about those people. And of course I should also ask her about her school work: even though she is in her 60-s, she is a graduate student, at least used to be. So I could ask her whether she is still a student, and how is her life is like nowdays.

d) When I was visitting my mom in California I ran across a guy who used to be my fellow student back when I was an undergrad at UC Berkeley. He told me he was one of the people who used to "defend me" when I was criticized for my behavior. By the way, this goes back to the fact that I am not the only one who says people don't like me. Although again you have to keep in mind that the huge turning point -- with that woman at the Jewish club -- happened right AFTER I graduated from Berkeley (when I moved from Berkeley to Minnesota). So back at Berkeley I didn't really take my behavior all that seriously: I knew what I did was annoying people and was finding it funny. But in any case, back to this guy: from what I remember him saying he worked in physics research for a while. I don't remember whether he said he was a professor at the university, or whether he had some other research-related position (I guess I could ask him) but then he had some difficult situation relevant to the divorce settlement with his ex-wife (he didn't tell me any details) so he lost that position. As of now he works in hotel industry and is trying to come up with some innovative types of hotels. He mentioned that he is one of the editors of one of the physics books I am currently trying to study, although when I checked that book I didn't see his name there; so maybe there are other editors they didn't list? I guess I could ask him that too. But in any case, he inquired about some of the physics things I am working on, and I sent him some papers. He found one of my papers interesting and said he wants to talk about it. I am actually glad that he liked that particular paper as opposed to any other. Because that paper is about Grassmann numbers: basically those are the types of numbers that are very counter-intuitive so I couldn't study the areas of physics that uitlize them until I re-interpret them. This was a mistake since this is one of the things that hindered my physics career. When I finally did re-interpret them to my satisfaction, it was very important to me I get them published because I didn't like the thought that all those years were wasted for nothing. Yet I couldn't get any journals to publish it because I couldn't convince anyone why its so important for me to re-interpret that thing. Similarly I couldn't convince anyone I talked to in person about that either (that Russian guy at the physics conferences whom I mentioned was one of the people that wasn't convinced; in fact that was part of the reason he found me annoying because I kept pushing my physics ideas despite him not finding them interesting). But, in contrast to those other people, this former classmate of mine from California actually found this exact paper interesting, the very paper nobody else likes. So that would be a good to talk to him about it. In any case, I ran across him on the street very briefly and the rest of our conversation was through email. So when he said, in the emil, that he wants to talk about that paper of mine, I responded that yes I would be excited to do that. He didn't respond to this right away and then, after a while, he sent me one of HIS papers that I never had time to read. So maybe I can go ahead and read that paper of his that he sent me and, after I read it, give him the feedback and also ask him about what he thinks of my paper. That plus also I can ask him how he is doing otherwise.

e) There is a certain girl from Vietnam who is my fellow graduate student and who was talking to me about her situation (both at school as well as her family at home) and asking me how I was doing. Now, in terms of dating, I only date women of European descent, so she is not an option. But in terms of friendship I am fine with being friends with all races. So I guess since I am concerned about friendships too, maybe I can put more effort in contributting to friendship with her. Yes during occasional times I ran across her, we talked for hours. But maybe I can sent her some texts asking her how she is doing. As a matter of fact, the reason I remembered her now is because just a few days ago she sent me a text asking me about a certain paper I am revising that I told her few weeks ago. So maybe I should do the same thing and ask her for follow ups on various things she told me about too. For example, few weeks ago she talked at length about the way in Vietnam they won't let people go to the store due to covid, and food orders don't work very well so they end up basically starving, which is the situation her family was in. So I could ask her how her family is doing now in this regard and whether it is any better.

In any case, back to what you were saying: When you were talking about "contributting to friendship", I can easily see what you meant in terms of five examples above. The only reason I was confused is that I wasn't thinking of those examples. Instead, I was thinking of waitresses and strangers on the street. In case of those people its true that I have no idea how to contribute: I don't even know where to start. So could it be that the core of our misunderstanding is that we were focused on different kinds of people? I was thinking of waitresses at the restaurants while you were thinking more of people similar to the five examples above?

Actually I can even put it in this way. If I were to make goood friendships with those five people (or some people similar) then waitresses at the restaurants won't be an issue any more since I would already have my circle of friends. So maybe the other customers have their friends too, and so whatever small talk they have with waitresses is just that, only a "small" talk. It only sounds "huge" to me (just like bread crumbs would sound huge to someone starving). But since waitresses don't know that, they just find it weird that I make such big deal about it and that is what pushes them away.

But then again, the assumption made in the sentence above is that they read my mind. I mean (as you pointed out yourself) how do they know I make a big deal over the restaurant thing "unless" they are somehow mind-readers? I guess I got the idea that people read my mind because I was told I come across as intense even in the situations when I don't talk. For example I remember few years ago I was obsessing about a cashier and why she would glare at me and not talk. When I finally asked her, after few months of obsessing, she told me I was intense. I asked "how on earth am I intense without ever talking" and she said I was staring at her. So then I explained why I stared at her and that it was because I was insecure due to Asperger. Once she understood it she warmed up and started to initiate conversations with me. I knew she probably didn't enjoy my company and was only doing it "for me"; but at least she didn't find me as annoying either.

But in any case, the point is that she said I was intense even though I never talked to her. So maybe waitresses at the restaurants also think I am intense even when I never talked to them? And if so, maybe its because we aren't on the same page in terms of the whole context of it: they are used to people having their own friends (such as the examples above) and only making small talk with them to be polite, while in my case I was focused ON those waitresses as a sole source of friendship (while forgetting the five exmples above I just wrote you about) and that is contributted to my intensity they non-verbally picked up on?



To me it seems like former is a lot more likelier than the latter. I guess it felt like she was a babysitter to me, making sure I don't lose my temper over people not talking to me. It really didn't seem like she was genuinely liking me. More like I would stand there about to blow up over the fact that nobody talks to me, and she would come to me with a bit of an exhausted look and start a conversation with me, in order to make sure that I stay cool. Such as "sigh ... how was your class" (or something similar). At least thats how it felt like. And in case of those guys her exhausted look and possible sigh was very similar.

But again, its also possible that she found it rude I went with other people since normally people go back with the same people they came from? Particularly since I didn't know who those guys were (although again she is not a mind reader so maybe she didn't know that I didn't know them; although maybe she could guess by my reaction). But again, I kinda doubt thats the case. I mean she knew I was like a little kid (at least I assumed she knew) and an adult wouldn't feel belittled just because of some kid.

I guess maybe my assumption that "eveyrone knows I am a kid" is a wrong one. But at least in her case (as well as some other people) it seems obvious that they do. Although perhaps I misread those situations because there were times when they ended up getting upset the way one gets upset at an adult, and I was surprised.



Again, this goes back to my not remembering names and faces. I had no idea who that girl is. As a matter of fact there were few other interactions involving few other girls. I assumed they are all different from each other. But maybe some of them are the same girl (or the same guy for that matter)? In which case I was totally not on the same page.



Yeah I guess now I begin to see that point, that I am writing about it. I guess writing helped, LOL.



I see what you mean. I guess it is sort of a gray area. But I can see how its not a forefront thing given some of the more obvious things people keep telling me -- such as my being too obsessive period (without mentioning gender).

Even on the medical front, when I got pre-diabetic readings on home meter this year yet got normal results at the doctors office, the doctor expected me to just believe my lab results and forget about home meter. When I wasn't willing to do that and wanted to order more tests, she said that the issue is not my glucose but my obsessive nature, and kept directing me to psychiatrist on campus.

And physics professors too were telling me I overfocus on details too much. Same goes to teachers on other subjects that I used to have.

So I guess I just come across as obsessive and everything else (girls or not) fades on the background in other people's minds.



Could "this" be the reason that when I come across one way and then try to explain that it was a misunderstanding nobody believes me? Because my explanation are "just words" and "men speak with actions"?

If a woman were to explain herself, would they be more willing to believe her, since for women they don't have that idea that "women speak with actions"?



Yeah I will try to contribute more in the future, now that I am thinking about it. I guess I prefer my future girlfriend makes the first move, and in arranging things too. But I guess I can arrange something after she does, that way its not one sided.



Let me clarify that in case of my second long-term ex (Jennifer) it was me who was usually paying for the restaurants, although she was the one inviting me. In fact this was one of the fights that we were having, that those restaurants were expensive. But I wasn't actually refusing to do it (I guess if I were refuse she wouldn't insist). Rather it was more like I would go along with her plans (and payment) but then start complaining how I am upset about money and she would get upset at my complaining. At one point she said "sigh ... fine you don't have to pay, I will" (in a really angry tone) and to calm her anger I was like "no no I will pay" (and did) but then she was still upset that I even made that comment.

One underlying thing behind this is that I lost financial support at the university I was at. They actually wanted to kick me out due to my spending too much time on Grassmann numbers and not doing what they were asking me to do. My mom managed to persuade them not to kick me out, but they still cut off the financial support. As in, yes I was a student, yes I was going to defend a thesis, but no I wasn't teaching (and hence wasn't getting paid). My mom was sending me money and so that money I spent on Jennifer was actually my mom's money. Thats why I didn't like the idea of spending it.

However, what I learned from Jennifer much later is that she somehow helped me with some of my bills. I believe those were library bills for forgetting to return the books on time. So she said she actually counted the money I owed her, and the money that I was spending on the restaurant was part of it. And she even told me approximate number of how much I still owned her. But you see, she told this to me like two years later. Back at the time I had no idea that this is what it was about. She should have told me!

On the other hand, in case of my first ex, Sarah, it is true that she was the one paying, for both of us. And back then I *did* have financial support so I could have easily paid, but since she was the one paying I was fine. Now, one thing I didn't like about my relationship with Sarah is that she was treating me as disabled. For example she wouldn't take me to see her friends because it is presumably too loud at the bar they are meeting at. I told her over and over again that I don't have sensory issues: not everyone with Asperger has all the symptoms. But she still thought it was too loud. Also when I mentioned to her how I liked to take busses in random direction for the change of scenary, she decidd not to give me the keys to her apartment since she was afraid she would go somewhere with her friends and I would take a bus somewhere and get lost. The fact though is that I only take busses when I am at my place, not at hers. It would be crazy to take bus from her place since she was supposed to drive me to get me back to my place, so how would she find me? Yet she assumed I would do that. Also some of her friends were telling her to "stop dating ret*d" and one of them asked her why would she want to "procreate ret*d children". Now get this: that friend of hers never met me. So why would she have that opinion of me unless she talked about me that way? When I asked her this, she just yelled "stop". When I asked her why didn't she stand up to her friend she again yelled "stop". When I insisted, she told me that she "did" lessen her contact with her as a result. But it doesn't seem like its true, it seems like she just said it to get me to stop.

So if I compare Sarah and Jennifer, then Sarah was paying for both of us, Jennifer expected me to pay. On the other hand, Sarah treated me as disabled, Jennifer treated me as normal. So do you think its a trade-off: the woman would only pay for both people if she views the man as disabled and accordingly loses respect for him?



Because I see everyone are in groups (either groups of 2 people or groups of 5 people or something similar) while I am the only one by myself. Of course maybe they aren't close friends. But still at least they are hanging out together and I don't.

That plus also those waitresses at those cafes talked to those other people just not me.



Perhaps we are talking about different levels of depth. But here is an example. So at the library I see two girls both stressed about the homework doing it together and talking about classes. To me that falls in the category of what I just talked about. They are stressed over the same thing and are there for each other. They aren't engaging in a deep conversation about it; instead they are doing homework together. But still somehow I can sense they are emotionally there for each other. Now it doesn't have to be a homework, it can be anything. I just wish there was someone whom I could feel cared about me.

Yes, it's about the context with pride, and I suppose also with the people not talking to you -thing. If people clearly run when you approach, then there's no question that they don't want to talk to you, but them just not coming to talk to you doesn't automatically mean that they dislike you, especially if we're talking about complete strangers, like random person in the library, a cashier etc. But if we'd talk specifically about that Jewish club of yours, I wouldn't automatically assume that people not talking to you = people not liking you, though it's possible that the director had received complaints about you and said what she said based on that. So, I suppose that when it comes to that one particular place, the director was probably right, but in other places, you should take that advice with a grain of salt.



I'm kinda the opposite; I stress certain things a lot before it's time for them yet when it's actually time, it usually doesn't feel nearly as bad when I'm actually doing it. This ranges from having a date to keeping a lecture to having a new kind of doctor's appointment to starting a new job to having to go somewhere new (especially if I have to go on a tight schedule.) I suppose that when the situation itself hits, I no longer have time to worry as I have to focus on the thing at hand. And then, when it's over, I usually feel shame for having been so anxious about it beforehand lol.



I would assume so; I myself stress things a lot less after I get used to them. Of course, some things can take longer to get used to than others.



My advice: take her advice with a grain of salt. Even if it was true for the people in the club, who I assume had met you several times before this since they actually went and complained about you, I don't think you should apply it everywhere, especially not among complete strangers... am I just repeating what I said the first thing in this message?



Perhaps what that director said could be applied to some of those situations, but not some others, and that's why the results were split? Or maybe some people just saw things in different ways than the others?

Anyway, if lot of people mention those same things, then the fact is that those are a problem to many people. You've mentioned that trying to control how loud you are hurts your throat (I think), but things like being too blunt and too argumentative are ones you can try to lessen. Plus, people are likelier to ignore the fact that you're too loud for their tastes if there aren't any other problems.
Talking about yourself too much is also something you can work on, and you actually had some good ideas on fixing this in this (or the second part) message, so more of that later.
Appearance? Yeah, work on that.
Smile? Be glad that you're a man; people tend to expect smiling even more from women than men. Don't really know how to fix this one since I get complaints about the same thing. One reason to love this era of face masks!
Different? Ya, I think being on the spectrum is the issue here. They can tell that something is off, most likely body language in one way or the other, but can't name it or pinpoint it. Work on your body language, and if you can improve in the other things, people might not see this one as so bad anymore.



Sorry, but nah. If they would've said very different things than others, then they would've probably been making things up on the spot, but since they all had the same complaints, I'd say they really thought those things. Either they just weren't bothered quite as much as the other people so they kept their mouths shut or they were too polite to say anything before you specifically asked. Or both.



"Didn't like you" might be the wrong term here; if they thought you were homeless, they might've thought you were a safety threat.



a) Is probably about you being smelly and messy. b) Doesn't necessarily mean that they don't like you; it could simply be that you're harder to talk to than others, be it due to your limited social skills or because they can't find a suitable topic. c) That one's indeed a pretty clear sign, but in some cases it could be that they don't have a problem with you, just the topic you chose to talk about at that time. If the topic's something like your loneliness or religion, it wouldn't be surprising if people felt too awkward to talk or listen about it.



Those kinds of things tend to come after you've become more than a random acquaintance at some place you both go to... don't they? Also, do you ever invite people anywhere? If you do, people are likelier to return the favor.



Yes, this part is true in a way, but it doesn't apply to strangers. If strangers don't talk to you, that doesn't mean anything yet. I'd also take it with a grain of salt in places like that club; people might simply not have any reason to talk to you, so they won't, but if you talked to them, they might talk back. If you went to talk to others and they ran away, then they don't like you or, also possible, the topic you started talking about.



Her again? Well, like she said, she thought you were busy. Of course, other reasons could be that you smelled... or was she busy, as in were there lots of others in line when you were at the counter, but not when she talked to those others?



Not really. People have the right to decide who they talk to, just like you decide not to talk to people. As for where you could start, that's easy: you could start by being the one going to talk to others.



I see. I didn't really think it like that; I didn't consider that the other person would think about the loner's feelings, just the things that might happen if one talks to the loner. But if one were to go through the possibilities of what the loner is thinking of and feeling, then I suppose they could come to the conclusion that the loner cares more. Then again, they could also come to the conclusion that the loner cares less since the loner hasn't arranged themselves the company. As in, the loner is alone because they want to be.



Friendship is not math. Even if someone already has lots of friends, they could still care just as much about one or a dozen more.



1. How could people know you have no friends? They could simply think that you only happen to be alone in that particular place, or that you prefer to come to that one place you frequent alone but go to other places with others.

2. How do you know your situation is more desperate? Maybe someone who has lots of friends is sick with cancer and or is in some other tragic situation like that and needs lots of support. Actually, this seems to be something you struggle to understand: others are not mind readers and can't know about your problems without being told, but you also can't know if other people really have it easier than you do.



Yes, I agreed on that, but it's not really a reason to go talk to people who are alone. Why? Because no one owes those people anything. Of course, if someone specifically wants to play a savior, then they might see it as a reason to go and talk to someone, but for other people, it's not a valid reason.



Actually, I'm with the bible study guy here. I mean, I understand where you come from, too, but according to social rules, you messed up, not him.

When someone comes up to you and asks "how are you", it's a start of basic small talk. You either answer with "fine, how are you" or something other short, like in your case it could've been "fine, just having a little worries about vaccines. How are you?" Then he could've answered and, if he wanted the conversation to keep going, he could've asked about what kind of vaccine problems you were having or, if it was a touchy subject for him or something, he could've started a conversation of something else entirely. But instead, you went on the so called lecture mode and went to lots of details that were maybe a bit too personal considering the situation. That's not something you should do during small talk.
Then, the guy comes and asks again how the vaccine problem is going. Again, I'm with him. That's a good way to start basic small talk: return to the subject you've talked about with the person before. And hey, did you notice? You didn't scare him away, he came to talk to you again. Possible friendship here, given enough time and effort?



Do you mean that you're literally loud about wanting people to talk to you and that you're lonely in places that people can definitely hear you? If yes, then that could very well be one reason people don't want to talk to you, as in you come across as too demanding.

If not and you're only loud like that when you're in the phone talking about every day stuff and all, then it's honestly no wonder people don't know 'cause you haven't said it where they can hear, but they can hear your loud phone conversations about transferring, so of course they would know about those.



Gossip, word gets around. Other people who have talked to you pass on the word. In some cases, all it takes is one person with influence. Kinda like the thing with you graduating: perhaps a handful of people heard your phone conversation and the rumors just spread. Or I guess I should say the word just spread 'cause this was neither bad or false information.



No, you misunderstood. I didn't say that it's rude to talk to someone for a short time and then leave, that's very common with small talk in fact. What I meant is that people don't want to be considered rude, but they're likelier to be considered so when there's only one person present because then that person will pay them more attention. And that's why there's more pressure on how to leave in a way that leaves a good impression, or at least not a bad one.



They go together in the sense that some people might think one thing from what they see, yet some might think something else entirely after seeing the same thing, or not think about it at all. Not everyone will think the same thing even if they see the same thing.



Silence could also be sign of not liking the topic. Are there usually some specific topics that you talk about when people don't answer?
Pretending not to understand you could be a sign of that, or in some cases an excuse they use when they don't like the topic, but how can you be sure that they are pretending? Maybe they really don't understand.



Whoa, absolutely! Though I'm not thinking of guns but the fact that people tend to mistake you for a homeless person. If you have an appearance of a homeless person, the bag will probably add to that. I mean, don't homeless people often carry along big bags where they have the things they absolutely can't go without, like sleeping bags and their spare clothes etc.?

Though of course, maybe guns is also an option. Would never occur to me here, but maybe it's a possibility that Americans think about a lot?



Possible, but it's also possible that you're usually wrong and just happened to be right this time. As for how you know he wanted to talk to you, perhaps you had a positive attitude when seeing him because you'd had positive interactions with him before, which led you to think that he must be looking at you for a good reason, while with strangers you tend to think the worst of them, possibly due to low self esteem?



Possible, but I think it could also be that when they're with others, they have to focus on socializing with them and aren't able to give you very clear signals because of that. But when they're alone, they can focus on the signals on a completely different level.



I get the mirror -thing a lot, too. But yeah, not wanting to be seen with someone but being okay with hanging out with that person in another kind of place isn't all that uncommon. I don't know the whole situation, but the reason he said that could be one or several of the things that people often point out to you. Or it could be something else, but since he spoke of a mirror, it was likely to be something that he considered to be very obvious.



Oh yeah, here's a few:

- I was a snitch. I caught someone breaking rules, I ratted them out.
- Due to my physical disability, teachers went easier on me on some things, mostly in PE class. That made some people jealous.
- Due to my physical disability, I was usually the closest thing to a dead weight in team sports that a team could have. Strategically, who'd want the dead weight in their team?
- I dressed... oddly? Childishly? Dunno, but people didn't seem to like how I dressed. I never wore jeans 'till fifth or sixth grade due to sensory issues, for example.
- I've been accused of being cocky when I'm good at something. Most likely accurate, and out of these ones, the fairest reason to not like me in my opinion. The strange thing about this is that the things I'm somewhat good at didn't really start to shine through until junior high, yet all my examples are from before that, so this one probably wasn't much of a problem back then.
- And of course, just some general thing of something being "off", probably, like with social skills and stuff.



In other words, you put too much focus on what you don't have and ignore what you have. Try focusing on that 1 % instead?



That could be dangerous when it comes to food. What if you faint from dehydration?

What exactly are you afraid of? That the way you'll do it is rude, or is there simply some feeling that you can't explain that keeps you from doing it?

If it's being rude you're afraid of, reading some books on manners might help, or as a more down to the point way, see what others in the group say and do when they want to do something.



No idea, and it probably varies from area to area. As for why women would be wary, all it takes is that one misjudgment on their part that could get them killed or something.

Not all homeless people are dangerous. If it's okay for you to be wary of them all, why would it not be okay for women to be wary of all men they don't know, you included? Just like you can't know which homeless person is harmless and which isn't, women can't know which man is harmless and which isn't, thus the caution.



Perhaps both?

As for the other, I've been talking about different situations and people. Some notice some things, some don't. Just because things go some way with some people it doesn't necessarily mean they go the same way with everyone else, too.



I don't see a contradiction. If you obsessed over her because you liked her, then you'd obsess over her even if you got a chance to obsess over someone else instead. If you obsessed just to obsess, then you would've been fine with some other woman too, as long as you had someone to obsess about. At least, that's what I think she meant.

As for the other case, there are many reasons to obsess about things, like simply being angry. People tend to be more understanding of people who speak because they're hurt than people who do so because they're angry. If you were yelling or the like, it wouldn't be weird to me if she mistook your pain for anger, or pain and anger for just anger. So, she did know you have emotions, she just misunderstood which emotions were at play in that situation.



Probably it's more like if they can tell you're obsessed with them, they wonder why you aren't making a move.

Anyway, that's part 1, it's late and I got work tomorrow. Gotta answer part 2 later. Please don't answer this one before I've answered that one; that would make the thread confusing for me to follow. I'll try to get to it soon.

A classic case of not seeing what's right in front of you, I suppose. But you know, if you wanted to hang out with that girl outside of that thing, you could've just asked. Yes, you've explained why you don't want to do the asking/approaching, but that would give you many more chances than just expecting things to be done for you will.

Plus, this was a girl from religious circles, and from my experience, religious people tend to support old fashioned gender roles more than others, so maybe she thought guys must always do the inviting?



I think you misread the situation with those guys, assuming they took you home like promised and didn't bully you during the ride of course. It's possible that you knew them or that they were just nice people. Or were they in that same Christian group as you and that girl? Then they might have counted you as a part of their circle of people in a way.



I honestly don't know either what she might've thought about that situation... but since she asked you many times if you were sure you didn't want to go with her, I'd take that to mean that she did want you to go with her for one reason or the other, so perhaps she was hurt that you didn't get the hint? Then again, when one offers someone something and they refuse, at least here it's good manners to try a few more times, just like it's good manners to refuse some kind of offers at first before accepting them. I suppose, if that kind of social ritual is a thing in the USA too, then she might have been doing that and didn't actually care either way. I don't think it's likely since she'd given you a ride so often before, but it's one possibility.

Either way, the fact that you're looking back on the situation and think what she was feeling instead of just focusing on your own feelings seems kind of like an improvement on your social skills.



My advice could work with both types if you yourself started conversations, because every friendship has to start from somewhere, but if that's too confusing or hard then sure, it's not a bad idea to try to apply it with the people who you already talk with at first.



I think it might be both. In the case of that girl, you definitely failed to see what was right in front of you (the girl that gave you rides as a potential friend) and missed a chance to make a friend because of that. But yes, the things you say here would've been a good way to handle things with her. If you ever end up in the same kind of scenario again, remember this stuff then. Even if the one giving you a ride is a guy.



Yes, I think you're on the right track. Getting to know people is a process, but since you kept complaining about your problems instead of trying to get to know her, she probably didn't bother to try to know you or try to get you to know her because of it, either. I also think it's likely that she tried at first, but since you didn't notice she just let it be, perhaps thinking that you'd get to the kind of social interaction you mentioned above after you eventually got your complaints out.



Both, like I said earlier in this post. The difference is that it's harder with the other girls since no one's made a first move yet, but you can fix that by making it. First, you make the effort of going to talk to them. Then, when you and them get to talking, you make the effort to not monologue and make sure you also ask her things and answer her questions instead of just talking about yourself.



Good idea. Be careful how you phrase the question to him; sick family can be a sore subject. Simply asking "how is your daughter doing?" without mentioning the covid would be good. Or even on the safer side, in case he doesn't want to talk about his sick daughter, you could ask "how is your family doing?"



Racial remarks? Dude no, just no. Don't make that kind of things. No wonder her excitement ran out, though you not seeming excited probably played a part, too. Maybe she felt stupid for looking very excited in comparison to you?



Excellent idea; asking about things that one has nothing to do with themselves makes a person seem less self centered and shows that they're interested in the person they're talking to (interest as in let's be friends -kind in this case, not romantic), not just some specific topic that's being talked about. Just don't make any racial remarks. Would probably go even worse when it's about her child than when it's about her husband.



I talked about both types of situations, but people you already have some kind of connection with are likely to be easier to start with.



This is a very good point.



Body language, facial expressions etc. The stuff that we on the spectrum tend to have trouble reading and sending the right signals with. And in this case by right I mean what most people are used to, like having the right kind of eye contact... or something? I struggle with body language myself so I don't have much of an advice on how to fix that.



It definitely is. You're a man in your forties; if everyone automatically treated you like a kid, something would be seriously wrong. But if some people do seem to treat you like a kid in some situations, yet get mad in some other situations where you act like a kid, then I guess they either see you as an older kid than you see yourself as or it's the kind of situation that they would get mad at at a kid, too.

By the way, if people around you saw you as a kid, then wouldn't that be a logical reason for them to not want to be friends with you, and especially be a logical reason for women having no interest in you? A common saying among women looking for a man is "I want a partner, not a man child" meaning that they want someone they can be equals with, not someone they have to look after.



Common aspie trait right there, so they're probably right.



I don't think so, for this happens a lot to me, too. I think it's more about NTs and autistic people than men and women. I think that when people are very used to the idea that when someone does X, it means Y, on those rare (to them at least) times that someone does X but doesn't mean Y with it, their brain somehow can't accept the possibility. Or even if they acknowledge that it is a possibility, they might think "how likely is it to be case here instead of this person just lying?"



Suggesting to go to a cheaper place beforehand instead of complaining afterwards would've been a better way to handle it... heh, every time I go to an area I don't know on a date (with the guy leading) and we decide to go eat something, I fear he'll pick a fancier place than what my budget is used to. Especially if it's my turn to pay. Not that I've gone on many dates, so there hasn't been that much to worry about.



Yes, she absolutely should have. And since you said "I believe", I assume you never got any proof that she really did pay your bills? In that case, she could even be lying, perhaps in order to look less guilty about spending your money. But as long as she's not trying to get you to pay back about those bills, then I suppose it doesn't matter anymore if she told the truth or not.



Not women in general, but it could have been the case with this Sarah.

Personally, I pay for both when it's my turn because I'd feel guilty, like I was using him, if I let him always pay and because I don't want the guy to think that I'm a so called gold digger.



Are you sure you're not just paying more attention to groups and pairs because you're jealous? Plus, loud and/or big groups stand out better than people who're alone, unless there's something unusual about the one who's alone of course, so they're easier to notice.



Probably. To me, stressing about homework and doing it together doesn't sound like something you need to be close or even friends for. I've done it with people I've barely even talked to.

Yeah, those guys were at that same Christian group. If they weren't, it would have been plain too weird to accept their ride, let alone safety concerns.

When I said I don't know who they are, I meant that this group had like 100 of people so I don't know most of them. The way I knew they were from that group is from the overall context. They were in the middle of that event, hosted by the group, and they were describing something about me in a loud voice (which is where I thought they bullied me) which a stranger from the outside wouldn't have been able to do.

As far as did they get me home as promised, the answer is yes.

As far as did they bully me during the ride, interesting question. They tried to make a small talk, but I don't remember what it was. I remember not liking it but that was probably because I already had my mind made up that I didn't like it. Probably if they were to have that same exact small talk in a different situation I wouldn't have taken it so negatively.

I will get back with the other replies later tonight or possibly tomorrow.

Okay, to respond to some of the other things you were saying...

I guess the reason I think they know that I am alone all the time rather than just when I attend that group is because they see me around. For example, the other day when I couldn't get a taxi, some older foreign lady offered me a ride because she seen me in the library many times. Or I had a conversation with someone at the Bible study about possible prediabetes and he said "you don't have much to worry about you walk everywhere" (in reference to seeing me walking places far outside the campus). And those are just recent examples. I am sure I can think of more. So if they see me, and always by myself, thats where they would come to that type of concusion. Especially in conjunction with my being socially awkward while there.

When I mentioend that when I speak they pretend not to hear me, you asked me whether the topics I spoke about were loneliness or religion.

As far as religion, the only situation where I talk about it is in Bible studies or a church, and that is where it is appropriate. Yet, yes, in the Bible studies they ignore things I say. I guess one reason is that the opinions that I have don't agree with other people. But the question is: what would have happened if someone else had those opinions? They would have listened to that other person more! The feedback I was getting when I asked those questions is that I express my opinions in ways that come across as pushy/invalidating. But on my end the only reason I do that is "because" I feel like they are ignoring what I say. So if they speak over me, then what to do other than speak over them?

But like I said I am not talking about religion "outside" the Bible studies. So I don't think there is that issue of talking about religion when it is inappropriate.

As far as talking about loneliness, I don't just shout to random people that I am lonely. This just never happens. Instead, I am looking for an opportune moment to do so. Like what I described in OP with that waitress is a good example of it. Yes I told that waitress about my loneliness, but that only was after she talked to everyone but me and then I used this situation as a context: I told her "by the way others ignore me too, do you know why that is the case?" Or I talked to three or four people at the Bible study about my loneliness, again in connection to people at the Bible study not talking to me. Now, if I talk about it by email then sometimes they ignore my emails sometimes they answer them it depends. When I do that in person they always answer but sometimes in evasive way. For example, that waitress I talked about in OP answered me, but her answer seemed evasive. So I don't think this is a good example of when people pretend not to hear me.

A much better example of when they do that is when I overhear a conversation and ask them what are they talking about. Now I know this is an inappropriate question to ask. But weren't you yourself telling me to approach strangers? Well one needs a context to approach people, and asking what they are talking about is a context. If it is a bad context then that is the other reason why I don't do that: I don't thikn there is a good context to talk to strangers.

But even if we put that situation aside, there are many other situations where they ignore me. This thread is a good example of it: viewtopic.php?t=401209 As you notice, none of the examples given in that thread involved my talking about loneliness or religion or asking people "what are they talking about". Yet they ignored me nonetheless.

The other issue that we talked about was this. On the one hand, people don't talk to me because they don't know that I want to be talked to. On the other hand, they don't talk to me because I come across too demanding in this regard. Those are two opposite things. I never asked explicitly to talk to me, so the question is whether they can read it from my body language. In order to say I am demanding, they should. In order to say they didn't know I wanted to them to talk to me, they shouldn't. So both statements can't be true at the same time. One thing you told me was

1) They might be different people: some people might think I am disinterested while others might think I am pushy

But then I mentioned to you a specific girl I met online who, herself, did both. She rejected me on the basis that I don't like her yet she also said I was too pushy. So how is it possible? To that you said

2) She might have meant that I only like her because nobody else is around

3) She might have meant that my obsession is driven by anger than by genuine liking

Now, IF she indeed thought both 2 and/or 3, she would have been right on both accounts. But the problem is that she didn't spell it out that way. Was I able to guess in my mind that thats what she MIGHT have meant? Yes. But the key word here is MIGHT. I want to be sure that this is what she thought rather than simply guess thats the case. Because if she didn't think those things but, instead, thought that I don't have feelings in a "literal" sense, then her conclusion would have been ridiculous. Why would someone without literal feelings ever want to settle? Even if I was just wanting to settle on her (which I was) the desire to settle would require feelings, wouldn't it. And also anger is a feeling too. So why would someone without the literal feelings be angry? So if she were to say "yes you have feelings, you just have the wrong kind of feelings", it wouldn't hurt nearly as much because its true. But when she said I have no feelings, that hurts.

I can answer my own question by the following math example. The statement "there are 9 numbers between 0 and 10" is technically wrong because it doesn't count numbers such as 2,4 or 5,7. But people say it anyway because by "numbers" they refer only to integers. So maybe with feelings it is the same thing. Women only refer to the specific "kind" of feelings. So when they say I have no feelings they mean "the kind of feelings they are looking for" rather than in general. But, again, that is my GUESS. I don't actually "know" that guess is correct. So if the above guess is wrong and they actually mean feelings in general, then it feels ridiculous.

One thing that people do tell me is that it appears as if I have no feelings due to the fact that I overanalize a lot. But from my point of view, if I take all this time to overanalyze the situation it means that I do have a feelings: otherwise what would drive me to take all this time to do that? Again, I can make a GUESS on how what they say made sense:

4) Maybe they didn't mean I don't have a feelings of hurt or rejection. But rather they meant that I don't have intuition (so I overanalyze instead) and intuition is also a feeling.

Again, IF that is what they meant, they would be right. But they didn't TELL me thats what they meant. I am left to GUESS if thats the case. And sometimes I suspect they might be thinking I don't have other feelings either and this really hurts.

By the way, on my end of a line, 3 and 4 are related in the following way. One of the things that drives me to do overanalyzing (item 4) is that I keep hoping that once I figure out the logic of everything I would be less angry (item 3). Now, this won't make me feel any less lonely, only less angry. So if by "lack of feelings" they meant "point 3" kind of way, then yes my overanalyzing would fall into that category. But I doubt that this is what others mean. Because the fact that overanalyzing is connected to anger is something I only know on my end. To others, it just seems like I am analyzing for the sake of analyzing.

Actually let me correct myself. Making posts here on WrongPlanet "does" make me feel less lonely (although it is only second-best to the real world). But what I was trying to say is that the specific choice of topics (namely asking to explain others behavior) doesn't help in this regard.

And the other point is that even if anger is sole "motivation" of a certain behavior, it doesn't mean that it is the sole feeling that I have. Yes I feel loneliness too. A lot of it. It is just being less relevent to when I overanalyze. But it "is" very much relevant on how I feel the rest of the time.

And yes I know it is unhealthy when I spend more energy on anger than on actually addressing loneliness. So if I were more focused on loneliness then, instead of making all those posts asking *why* people did a certain thing, I would have been making posts asking what can I *do* to connect to people. Even though anger is more intense at the moment, loneliness is ultimately what affects me on the long run. So I guess my fixation on the former rather than the latter is unhealthy.

However, that doesn't mean I am some robot without feelings. Because aspies are not the only ones who engage in such behaviors. Any other unhealthy behavior can also be described as fixating on one thing over the other. For example, unhealthy eating can be described as over-fixating on enjoying the food and sabbataging the overall health. But that doesn't mean that the person who is engaged in unhealthy eating patterns "doesn't feel a need" to be healthy. They do. They just sabatage it. Same with me. I do have a need to satisfy genuine loneliness, I just keep sabotaging it. So when people assume I don't have those needs, it hurts.

Maybe the reason why with food they don't come up to the types of conclusions they come up with me socially is that they can better relate to the need to overeat rather than the need to overanalyze, since the former is more common than the latter? But then again, I overanalyze to address the feelings of anger. And anger is a common feeling too. But since I deal with it in such not-so-common way, thats why people can't relate, and assume I have no feelings.

By the way, speaking of food, you asked me whether I would faint by not being able to snack when I am in a group of people. No I don't think thats the issue. In fact when I fast on Yom Kippur (Jewish holiday) i don't faint, so why would I faint by not eating for just a few hours? In fact I think my snacking is unhealthy and I need to reduce it anyway for the sake of my own health.

And, speaking of health, I do see your point in that it might be a misperception that, due to my Asperger, I have it worse than most people. In fact, last winter I started to suspect I am pre-diabetic, even though all the doctors I went to said I am not. And I caught myself thinking that I would rather have Asperger than pre-diabetes. But then I looked up that a third of US population is pre-diabetic according to the doctors (which apparently is worse than in my case where doctors don't think I have it). So then that would be an example right there where I wouldn't want to change places with others.

Although again, maybe my thinking that "pre-diabetes is worse than Asperger" is also wrong too. Diabetes? Probably. But pre-diabetes? All that means is that I should watch what I eat. I thought that watching what I eat is a disaster because I crave sweets. But now that I started doing it, its not as bad as I thought. So I guess one thing I do is over-fixate on just one problem and that problem looks worse than anything else. Thats why I went from thinking "Asperger is the worst thing in the world" to thinking "pre-diabetes is far worse than Asperger".

I think which one is worse is really the matter of perspective. If I have Asperger, then whenever I am disliked at one place I can go to another place. With pre-diabetes I can't run away from it. But then with pre-diabetes I have a group of friends that support me. With Asperger I don't. With Asperger without pre-diabetes, if I feel rejection I can make myself feel better by snacking. Pre-diabetes won't let me do it. If I have pre-diabetes without Asperger then I can get some friends support over the fact that I can't eat all those things. With Asperger I can't get those friends support. So Asperger and pre-diabetes together is a bad combination.

I do realize that none of the issues that I have, put together, is anything compared to what you are dealing with health-wise. So I am sorry for making it sound like I am the only one with the issues. How is your health in that regard by the way? Are you stable or is it getting worse?

And as far as you being bullied in school, I can relate to a lot of things you said. I also was considered a "dead weight" in PE, but it wasn't any specific desease but rather my being physically weak in general. This was only the case in Russia and not in the US, which is what makes me suspect that Russian kids are stronger. Althoguh in US, where people pick classes, I picked swimming for PE, and there were no team games as far as swimming is concerned. The only team sport I remember playing in the US is running team, and I was good at running by US standards anyway (I have no idea how good I was by Russian standards though).

And as far as reporting other kids, that too. I didn't go directly to the teacher, rather I would tell my grandma and my grandma told the teacher and then the kids got mad. I was specifically telling my grandma not to tell the teacher, but she did anyway. But in any case, the only topic that my grandma was reporting was kids bullying me. As far as other things kids did that was not related to me, my grandma wouldn't bring it up (and me neither). What about your situation? Were you also only reporting bullying or were you reporting other things too?

In US, I only had 2 bullies (both girls) in one class and one bully (a boy) in another class, and that was it. I told about it to my mom (my grandma was in Russia) and it was handled smoothly. But in Russia there were kids that were bullying me everywhere not just two classes. Also now that I think of it, if I were to try to name the bullies it was also just three people. So maybe the issue is that in Russia all kids take the same classes so I was stuck with them. However, one other thing that happened in Russia which never happened in the US is that I was bullied by kids from other classes. I think in the US there were just a couple of such occasions but not much. But as far as my grandma is concerned, she was only reporting the three kids from my own class, because I didn't know the names of the kids from other classes so she didn't know whom to report.

In any case, in US reporting kids is considered perfectly normal, but in Russia it is looked down upon. What about Finland, how do they think of it there? Were you doing it simply because you were unaware of social norms due to Asperger? Or were you aware of it and made an informed decision to do it?

By the way it seems like Finnish culture is similar to Russian in some ways. Like you mentioned how in Finland its common to make repeated offer when people turn it down the first time. That is the case in Russia too, for the same reason you described. But in USA this normally doesn't happen. Thats why in case of that girl at the Christian fellowship (when I was in my 30-s) I thought there was more to it than what you said -- because that girl was in the US. In US they don't have that concept that it is polite to say no first, but in Russia they do. Apparenlty Finland is similar to Russia.

Yes, talking about religion is proper in bible studies... or actually, isn't that the purpose of them? Of course, if your opinions differ a lot from those of others, that can create problems. When you know or suspect that your opinion might be one generally frowned upon by the group, you should put extra attention on how you express your opinion. Saying things like "I feel like", "I think that", "from what I've seen, it seems that" etc. helps. It makes it clear that you don't think what you say is the absolute and only possible truth but that you respect the other people's thoughts and experiences, too. I'm not saying you don't already respect them, just that it's easier for other people to see that you do if you put emphasis on it.
Ignoring what you say and speaking over you are two different things. Which are they doing, or are they doing both?

Alright, so the problem seems not to be the subject itself. I think you mentioned that when it comes to things people find bothersome about you was that you don't say "please" enough and such. Could it be that sometimes people ignore what you say not because of what you say but the way you say it, as in you sound too impolite and demanding?



If there's no good context to talk to strangers, then a lot of friendships and relationships and other connections would go unformed. The problem is not the lack of good context, it's the lack of social eye to see when it's a good time to approach strangers and when it's not.
Also, again, not just what you say but the way you say it. If you just say "what are you talking about?" it can sound rude, especially to strangers. Listening in and figuring out the subject like that and then politely asking if one can add their own two cents to the conversation is the way I tend to use. This way one is likely to avoid accidentally trying to enter a too personal conversation, too.



She might have thought she was being clear enough. Or maybe she wasn't really thinking if her message got across or not if she was angry/sad or otherwise overwhelmed by emotion. Most people don't think logically when their emotions get strong... I think they might try to do so, but they can't do it as well as they would when they're calm. This is why it's often said that important conversations shouldn't be had when one's angry or sad, though the problem I've always seen with that advice is how to make sure that the subject really is brought up again and not just swept under the rug.
As for why would someone without literal feelings want to settle... well, you probably weren't asking this as a question that you wanted an answer for, but since I immediately felt like I had one, I'm gonna bring it up: for practicality. Someone without feelings could logically conclude that it's cheaper for two people to pay for one apartment and all the necessary stuff than it would be for one and use that and other similiar logical reasons to settle down with someone, even if they aren't the person's ideal partner. In fact, that kind of thinking is still pretty common in Asia, apparently.
I would guess that she did mean that you don't have the right kind of feelings for the situation or that you feel less about some particular subject than she was used to others feeling, and you took that too literally. But that's the kind of fights couples often get in to in TV dramas too, so I suppose it's considered normal. The key is talking it out once both have calmed down... in theory, at least.



Well, I think that if one really was without any feelings, then they wouldn't understand at all why someone is acting the way they do when they act based on their feelings, so they would try to understand in the only way they know of: analyzing the situation logically. And they would do it because, logically thinking, it's always better to be in good terms than in bad terms with people.



Maybe, but then again, knowing why someone did something will help you understand similiar situations in the future, so it's not like it's completely pointless to try to figure out the situations that have long since passed. But obsessing about them decades after they've happened does go overboard, so I suppose some kind of healthy balance should be found.



I just thought that it might become an issue if you spent a longer time in a group and hadn't eaten beforehand, yet couldn't bring yourself to leave the group for a while to go get something to eat.



Eh, comparing who has it worse doesn't usually do much good. Not saying I never do it myself; when emotional, I have the habit of thinking what certain people are complaining about when their problems are so small in comparison to mine, but that shouldn't be done because a) me pointing it out would only make things worse most of the time and b) if we start comparing who has it worst, lots of people could ask me what on Earth am I whining about because there are lots of people who have it worse than me, both when it comes to health and otherwise. And it makes sense for this topic to focus on your issues since it's your topic.

The condition I was born with hasn't been acting up, but unfortunately, my health's been getting worse for the past few months due to IBD, and the medication that got things under control last time isn't working. I can still live out my daily life though, so it's not that bad yet, and I already have a doctor's appointment scheduled in order to discuss a possible new, stronger medication, so all's probably gonna be fine.



...Or maybe Russian kids are just meaner?



I reported both bullying and other things I knew to be against the rules. Of course, I didn't do it as much as I got older once it really sunk in that one of the reasons I was bullied was that I didn't understand the social rule of not being a snitch.



I just did things the way I'd been taught to do them at home. I was taught that rules were to be followed, so when someone didn't follow rules, whatever rules they were, I told on them because I thought it was what was expected of me. Of course, as a child I didn't understand it yet that adults don't want every little thing to be told, so I filled them in even about the little things, like someone taking bread from the basket before finishing their main meal (dunno why but our school had a rule that you only got to eat bread once your plate was empty. Once I got to junior high though, the teacher there said it was a ridiculous rule since bread is a part of the meal, not a dessert.)



Good to know. Is it a thing in the USA to say things like "you shouldn't have" or "that's too much" when receiving a gift, though? Do you know?

In the US, it used to be customary for a gift receiver to say "Oh, you shouldn't have" when receiving a gift from someone.

Okay here is an example where I was ignored just now. Yes it was about religion, but the girl was the one who was writing the religious message, not me. I was the one who asked what was she writing.

Anyway, here is how it went. The girl wrote in large letters on the walking road "God is not" and then she hasn't written the last word yet. So I asked her what was she going to write. Now when I asked her what are you writing the first time, she didn't say anything, then when I asked her the second time she said she hasn't written it yet then I asked her what was she GOING to write (which is the third time asking) and she said "God is not dead just like the movie".

Then the conersation went like this

ME: I agree with you. I am Christian by the way

HER: Oh

(Now you see why it is frustrating that she was STILL evading me even when I said I agreed with her, thats why I decided to get out my frustration by responding in a more antagonistic way)

ME: God IS dead by the way: Jesus died on the cross

HER: But he rose again

ME: And so are the spirits of everyone else who is dead, they rose again too. So if by dead you mean alive just in a different spiritual realm, then yes God is dead. In particular He is dead in one sense (namely he rose and thats why He isn't around to be seen) and thats what caused the professor in that movie to call him dead in a different sense (as in not existing).

HER: I haven't thought about it that way

ME: Well, I did when I watched that movie. That was the exact thought I had: they could have complied and written "God is dead" while attaching to it the Christian meaning.

HER: All the more reason I should write it down.

I left.

Now, can you explain why I had to ask her THREE TIMES what was she writing before she was willing to respond? Thats why I think there is something ABOUT ME that people avoid me. And why is it even after I said I was Christian that didn't help either?

You put people "on the spot" before they are prepared to allow you to put them "on the spot."

So what would be an example of asking the same question without putting them on the spot?

Sometimes, one should defer "questions" for when the relationship becomes closer.

This brings me to the other issue: Fireblossom was telling me to start conversation myself. But the only way I can think of on how to start a conversation is by asking questions. So does it mean that

a) You disagree with Fireblossom and you don't think I should start conversation

or

b) There are ways to start conversation other than asking questions. If so, how?

It's probably better to say something like "Isn't this a nice day today?" Or something like that. I guess it's probably sort of risky to compliment a woman on what she's wearing, though women usually don't mind it if it's a compliment.

What you say depends upon the specific context. Too much questions leads to a feeling of being interrogated.

The word "too many" implies its the issue of numbers. But in terms of numbers I only asked 1 question. So how can 1 be "too many" if that is the smallest number you can pick?

Questions often leads to more questions.

You like to ask questions.

Women hate that. They want to have fun without being questioned.

Obviously, I can't really advise you too well----because I don't know you personally.

But I do know that you obsess over little details too much.

But the question is: how to *they* know it? If they shut me down on the first question then it means they were able to somehow predict that I would have asked more. How were they able to predict it if, unlike you, they haven't spoken to me before?