When Aspie women and Aspie men don't get along

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hurtloam
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24 Oct 2017, 11:42 pm

Marknis wrote:

Tim_Tex wrote:

What’s redpill?

A sick mentality trumped by Bible Belters.

The only red pill adherent I've met offline is an atheist from the UK.

It's a men's rights thing. A lot of good points like we need to realise men suffer from domestic abuse and sexual harrassment too. That men should have a right to custody and it shouldnt be a given that the woman automatically gets it.

But it's also a squewed psiedoscience where men claim to know what women want and won't listen to any women who don't fit into that box. I won't deny that there are numbers of women who fit the profile redpillers focus on, but when you've met one woman you've met one woman. We're not a homogenous lump and it's frustrating not to be listened to. So we give up and walk away from these guys. There's no point trying to make them see past their own noses.

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24 Oct 2017, 11:43 pm

ZachGoodwin wrote:

hurtloam wrote:

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

None of that really applies when talking about men on the internet making sexist generalizations about women and accusing all women of lying and not understanding their own experiences. I think he meant if I were "stronger" then men being sexist towards me wouldn't bother me, which is both incorrect and also takes the responsibility off of men to stop being sexist and puts it on women to just put up with their sexism. Because I am a strong person I am not willing to put up with sexist men, that's what really bothers guys like him.

I agree that the worst thing is guys constantly devaluing our experiences and telling us we don't understand how we really feel or what we really want. They think women are idiots. You can't reason with those types so just end up walking away. That's why aspie women give up on the socialising with aspie males.

They treat us like our opinions don't matter. They treat us like deluded idiots.

#notallmen but the bad ones are vehement enough to make us leave.

I don't think the strength bothers these guys. They couldn't care less. They just really believe their view and can't be shifted. It's an aspie forum. It's a theory of mind issue. I don't know if they are able to understand a woman's perspective.

Men were taught to forget about thinking what's behind them and focus on what's ahead of them. Anything that is behind a man is seen as a distraction, and so to focus on what's ahead is more important because it may hurt a man more than what the man has faced in the past.

Example when Bambi's dad tries to get Bambi to get up to get out of the fire:

(I know I already talked about Bambi, but it's the best example I can think of).

Sorry I can't quite grasp how this relates to my point. Is it about theory of mind?

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24 Oct 2017, 11:50 pm

Another example would be a drill sergeant, a football coach... It's hard for me to explain it effectively, but when an autistic male pulls what I'm talking about off he ends up looking like he is complaining more so than making sense or giving advice. Again there are far better examples for what I'm talking about, but that's the best I can give. Boys are rough to each other.

ZachGoodwin
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25 Oct 2017, 12:06 am

And Aspie Men when they try to pull off the "drill sergeant" they end up looking insecure and crazy like I can. It'll take years for me to explain this effectively.

hurtloam
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25 Oct 2017, 2:54 am

ZachGoodwin wrote:

Hmm. Do you think the women are taking what the men say the wrong way? Either as too rough and they take offence or the women see complaining and dont like that?

I think the women feel genuinely devalued. Like their input is dismissed as unimportant at best, deluded lies at worst.

Enceladus
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25 Oct 2017, 5:06 am

hurtloam wrote:

Ok so has this thread answered the OPs question?

Hmm... that fighting earlier was not very encouraging, though it does make my point.

I'm not sure if being confrontational helps, then people will just dig deeper trenches.

I do think women need to stay put at the meetups and in the forums and not let the few bad behaved men set the agenda. Just leaving solves nothing, the girls just end up giving the few rotten eggs the stage. Most Aspie men are nice and well behaved

Maybe stay for our sake and ignore the others?

I also think we should all be aware of how the the autism affects us differently. We're all over the spectrum. Some of us have serious issues with communication others less so. Knowing about the spectrum and how autism affects us differently should enable us to give some slack whenever someone crosses the line. They might not know they crossed a line, and yelling at them for crossing it will just make them yell back.

There might not be a cure all solution to this but I'm sure talking is part of the solution rather than yelling and fighting.

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25 Oct 2017, 7:51 am

Enceladus wrote:

hurtloam wrote:

Ok so has this thread answered the OPs question?

Very well put Enceladus, I applaud you.

I am sat here thinking about the roles we play in group dynamics and how things work themselves out eventually, especially conflict.

Everytime a new thread is made it is like a new group has come together and the dynamics begin to flow. I am talking about forming, storming, norming etc.

Also I am thinking about the different roles we play each time, such as, controller, joker, encourager, blocker etc, which is happening all the time on this site. This may be worth thinking about for all of those who are interested in psychology and human behaviour in general.

There will always be conflict of some sort if people feel they are so different from each other. I accept it.

hurtloam
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25 Oct 2017, 8:16 am

Enceladus wrote:

Knowing about the spectrum and how autism affects us differently should enable us to give some slack whenever someone crosses the line. They might not know they crossed a line, and yelling at them for crossing it will just make them yell back.

There might not be a cure all solution to this but I'm sure talking is part of the solution rather than yelling and fighting.

Totally agree with this.

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25 Oct 2017, 10:23 am

hurtloam wrote:

Hmm. Do you think the women are taking what the men say the wrong way? Either as too rough and they take offence or the women see complaining and dont like that?

I felt like that when i was single & lonely. I was accused of being a misogynist in L&D & on other forms when in reality my 2nd & current girlfriend think I'm a moderate feminist(my 2nd girlfriend was at least a moderate one). I 1ce accidentally called myself a misogynist when I meant to use the word misanthropic(I sometimes get words confused cuz of my dyslexia) & I got jumped on like crazy cuz of it even thou I tried to explain I used the wrong word & I got jumped on even more for a long time after.

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karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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25 Oct 2017, 1:06 pm

Enceladus wrote:

hurtloam wrote:

Ok so has this thread answered the OPs question?

But what should be done when those badly behaved guys step over the line over and over again and refuse to alter their behaviour even when they are informed that attacking autistic women for being women is wrong? How should us autistic women react to those guys, what is the "proper" way to respond to that? Should we not stick up for ourselves, should we let them continue to say horrible things about women and never give them any consequences for personal attacks and sexism? How does that promote a healthy supportive environment for autistic men OR women, to just let them keep expressing that all women are evil shallow heartless b*****s?

hurtloam
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25 Oct 2017, 1:14 pm

There's a way to challenge them without resorting to insults and turning the threads into a tit for tat 'you're stupid', 'no you're stupid' slanging match.

karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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25 Oct 2017, 1:37 pm

hurtloam wrote:

There's a way to challenge them without resorting to insults and turning the threads into a tit for tat 'you're stupid', 'no you're stupid' slanging match.

Once again, I didn't insult anyone, I commented on the content of a post. I never called anyone a name, I never said anyone was stupid. So what do you do when you challenge their posts and they personally attack you? I reported the attack because it broke the rules--was that the wrong way to deal with it? Should there not be consequences when they break the rules? I really don't see how I am wrong for sticking up for myself as an autistic woman against sexism, and how I deserve to get called a simpleton and told that should hit my head and get brain damage for doing so.

CharlesRooster
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25 Oct 2017, 1:40 pm

I feel like this thread was just an argument waiting to happen

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hurtloam
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25 Oct 2017, 2:04 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

hurtloam wrote:

There's a way to challenge them without resorting to insults and turning the threads into a tit for tat 'you're stupid', 'no you're stupid' slanging match.

Well personally I think you overreacted. He wasn't wishing you harm. He was wishing you'd forget. A bad method of course, but he's probably watched too many cartoons and movies where someone hits their head and gets amnesia.

I don't think it was sexist. He's have phrased it similarly to another man.

karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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25 Oct 2017, 2:39 pm

hurtloam wrote:

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

hurtloam wrote:

There's a way to challenge them without resorting to insults and turning the threads into a tit for tat 'you're stupid', 'no you're stupid' slanging match.

Wishing someone would get hit on the head is wishing them harm. He literally wished I would get a head injury bad enough to give me amnesia, that is wishing harm on someone. He also called me a simpleton, which is a personal attack and against forum rules. Why are you defending and excusing this abusive behaviour and telling me I provoked it? That is what gaslighters and bullies do. You sound like you have Stockholm Syndrome or something.

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25 Oct 2017, 4:00 pm

Sorry Kara I didn't mean to devalue how you feel. I can understand how you felt threatened. The words were violent imagery so obviously you're going to become defensive.

Just by a pure fluke I found this video. I follow The Big think on Facebook and they post all kinds of videos on philosophy and science etc sometimes I have a look through their YouTube page.

This guy explains what I'm trying to say so much better than my garbled words in this thread.

See I ignored your stockholm insult and furthered the discussion with some more info.... That's how it's done

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