Was that man gay or something?

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You know, extreme majority of people I know are cis and heterosexual, yet I know only three people who admit being anti-gay. And two of them, one of my uncles and his wife, I heard about from my mom and have never personally heard them say anything anti-gay. Sure, some might be in the closet with being anti-gay but majority, including elders, are clearly fine with it. One of my cousins is a Christian priest and he doesn't seem to have a problem with it, either.

And before you ask, I'm a straight cis woman.

Just something for you to think about.

If you go here
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2013 ... osexuality
you will find it far more mixed than you make it out to be.

They didn't list Finland so maybe that is part of the explanation of why what you said doesn't match what they show. But it's still weird since Finland used to be part of Russia and they listed Russia.

I'm bisexual, currently in a relationship with a man.

That's not universally true. See History of homosexuality.


It is certainly possible to be interested in, even to admire, some aspects of 19th century culture without necessarily agreeing with every aspect of it. It's possible to be interested in some aspects of early 19th-century American southern culture without approving of slavery, for example.


What didn't happen until 2003 was that the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that sodomy laws were unconstitutional. However, before then, many though not all states had already repealed them on their own.


The LGBT rights movement was "widespread" in Berkeley long before 1997, although apparently there was still quite a bit of anti-gay prejudice there too.


Just an example of one possible way that someone could leave the Soviet Union and emigrate to the West. I recall hearing about quite a few Soviet spies who decided to defect.

That article proves her right. Not wrong. It shows that in the US most folks believe that society should accept homosexuality (the US and western European countries).

This incident of yours took place here in USA. Didn't it? Mona was talking about attitudes here in the US. In the US is all that matters to the topic of this thread.

Because you’re in the US, so those are the relevant socio-cultural mores to bear in mind when going about your day.

My point was simply that lots of straight cis people are perfectly fine with homosexuality. I am aware that people who aren't still exist as well. Here they seem to be mostly elderly and/or from the countryside (or super religious.) I've heard that that's widely a thing in the USA, too, though there are exceptions.

BTW I am positively surprised on how many people in Japan accept homosexuality; I expected the number to be smaller there.

Somewhat off-topic but it's not the first time you do this, so I'll say it: just because Finland has been under Russian occupation, it doesn't make them Russian clones, far from it. There have been some influences, but they actually have a very strong cultural identity of their own and don't even share the same religion or language with the Russians. They are one of those (relatively) small countries who have been caught for most of their history between two powerful and aggressive neighbours and they don't have a lot of love for either of them.

Fireblossom, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Exactly.

Finland was fought over and changed hands between Sweden and Russia over the centuries. But had its own ethnic identity all along. Culturally Finland was and is an extension of Lutheran Germanic Scandanavia, and never of Eastern Orthodox Slavic Russia.

I don't why the OP is talking about Finland anyway.

Attitudes towards gays, and everything else, in Finland today ( you can assume) would be similar to those of Sweden, and of western Europe in General. And not necessarily anything like that of Russians.

However there ARE regions of eastern Europe that were either part of the old Soviet Union (Ukraine, Belarus), or were separate countries that were dominated by the old USSR (Poland, Bulgaria, etc)that were and are culturally similar to Russia though.

Last edited by naturalplastic on 01 Mar 2020, 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Spies. Whether they come in from the cold, or not, are small in number.

The point is that MANY groups were oppressed in the old Soviet Union. A number of religious groups, including Jews, were mistreated well into the Seventies. "Save Soviet Jewry" was a common bumper sticker in the US then.

This guy whom the OP met could just as easily have said "I knew folks who fled Russia because they were Jews". But that would not be a reason to assume that the guy he was talking to was himself Jewish. Likewise with gays.

I've spent some time there and can confirm that general attitudes seem to align with the ones in Scandinavia and so does the legislation: same-sex people can get legally married and adopt children in Finland, who is, btw an EU member.

While this has little to do with the OP, it's not the first time I see QFT assuming that Finland shares the same attitudes or laws with Russia and wanted to address this misconception.

Finland has been its own nation since at least 1919.

Since we're derailing : I haven't met a lot of Bulgarians, but some of the strongest anti-Russian attitudes I've met came from Polish and Romanian people (the first do have a Slavic language but are predominantly Catholic, while the former are predominantly Eastern Orthodox but speak a Romanic language. Both are EU members). Both had a turbulent relationship with the Russians over the centuries, resented ending up under the USSR influence and considered the outcome to have had a destructive influence on their culture, not to mention economy.

Yep, pretty much. Even during the time we were under Russian rule (freed in 1917 btw), our ways and culture had much more in common with Sweden than Russia. And QFT was speaking of Finland because he replied to me and knows that that's where I'm from.

My opinion on Eastern Europeans -- including poles -- is that, while they hate Russians, they still have a Russian mindset. Its perfectly possible. Like I resent that my mom is so controlling yet a lot of quirks that I retain I learned from her.

As far as Finland goes I knew it was part of Russia before the 1919 but I didn't know that it was going back and forth between Russia and Sweden. Now that naturalplastic said that it was, it makes more sense why it doesn't share as much similarities with Russia culturally..

By the way Poland was also going back and forth between Russia and "something"; maybe even Germany -- at least it was torn between two sides during World War 2. Still, however, when I talk to Poles they seem to have Russian feel to them. Maybe it's just their language that is similar to Russian. But then again, similar languages is usually a sign of historic ties.

The fact that Ukraine is culturally Russian is something I know for a fact though. Just look up Kievlian Rus. That doesn't mean Russia should take the whole Ukraine -- just the fact that I admitted I am culturally like my mom doesn't mean my mom should force me to live with her -- but Russia certainly should keep Crimea since most of it's citizens are Russians not Ukrainians. But that's a different can of worms.

As far as the rest of Ukraine goes -- even though I would say no Russia shouldn't take it (nor is it trying to by the way) it's perfectly fine to acknowledge that they have a lot of similarities to Russians. And the sane goes for majority of Slavic countries and especially former USSR. Do they hate Russians? Yes. Are they culturally similar to Russians? Also yes. It's quite ironic but it's true.

Because Fireblossom is from Finland.

The way it's relevant is that she said that she knows only 3 people who oppose homosexuality. Since attitudes to this topic vastly change from country to country (as that chart seems to indicate) that's why the country she is from is relevant.

Last edited by QFT on 01 Mar 2020, 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.