WHAT CAN AN NT DO TO MAKE A FRIENDSHIP WORK WITH YOU

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After he accused NT's of several things that were untrue. The thing is this - if he tells me that what I said was rude, I will be the first to apologize. I wonder if he will do the same.

Just simply pointing out that you asked a very specific question to a group of people who will most likely answer your specific question, and some will be very blunt about it. I get a bit defensive when I see people being shamed for that, especially in a place such as this. This isn't the only thread that I see you doing this in. Just please try to be mindful of where you are, is all I am asking. You're either here to learn, like you say, or to belittle.

Maybe instead of being angry that he said that, try asking why he feels that way.

I actually did ask him because he sent the list of his last post to me by PM. He won't ever answer my questions. He just keeps accusing NT's of things. That's why I said that it won't matter what I say because he's just going to keep coming up with things that aren't always true regarding NT's and won't even try just a little bit to understand anything I say. I believe he said that NT's always apologize for the feelings of the other person, but not for what they have said. Again, wrong. I'm wiling to apologize for what I said if he does. What he said in that paragraph wasn't about NT's in general, it was directed at me personally.

I need to add something. The "shame on you" comment came after an accusation that NT's discriminate against disabled people and see them as inferior. I may actually agree with him IF he had an example of something that happened in his life to back it up, but I would only agree about that situation. I, myself, can honestly say that I don't discriminate against disabled people, otherwise, I wouldn't be a nurse helping disabled people. If he's speaking about Aspies, why would I even be spending time on this site if I didn't like being around Aspies? If I discriminated against Aspies would I even be here? I certainly don't look down on Aspies - they're loyal, honest, smart - extremely smart. I like the subjects they talk about. I don't get it. If it bothers him that I'm here, just don't read my thread. If he answers the thread, of course then I'm going to answer his posts. If I say something out of line then tell me, because my intentions aren't to be rude and I will apologize and do my best not to do what I did again. In return, if I say my feelings have been hurt, then I also expect an apology.

I did see that part. But the thing is, that he didn't say you specifically. It was a generalization of how he sees people. I don't know why his view would be that way. For me, I don't like people speaking to me in "baby talk". I am 33 years old. And this happens to me often. There really isn't much room for neurodiversity, in this world. If I do not respond the way in which someone expects me to, people won't take the time to consider that I was not trying to be mean, but rather responding in the way that I think is right, and sometimes in situations that I think I am being helpful. It often feels as if the entire world seems to think that there's only one right way to be a person, and I can't figure out how to be that person, so I don't belong here. I understand that not everyone is like that, and that some people even share my struggles. But through my own eyes, and the way things are in my daily life, that is just the way that I feel. I do also see lots of discrimination and hatred towards disabled people. Aside from my own issues, my brother is deaf and he has facial deformities. People say that kids are mean. So are adults. I don't know why there's so many people who are that mean. But I do know that when someone makes that type of generalization, it is often because they have dealt with a lot of mean people, in their life.

I find it amazing that "NT"s are often very quick to « ridicule » that of which they do not understand.

What are his untruthful statements and what evidence is there for those statements being false statements ?

I have found that very highly social-personalities tend to also be the most-dishonest ones that I've ever encountered. They are like « Jekyll & Hyde » syndrome. Apparently they are somehow « mind-controlled » such that it's like that cannot even « remember » the « atrocities » that they have committed upon others (and those who have come out of a hypnotic-regression session do not recall any details of what they had just said nor do those who have been « spirit-possessed » into doing abominable-activities even remember their own activities with due to having been « blacked out » from said possession just like how highly drunk people do not remember the s**t that they did whilst drunk and so no many of we « Aspies » are going to take your statements about "several things that were untrue" as itself being a blatant lie in of itself, and if you cannot « see » this as even being a possibility, then we are forced to dismiss you as a « fundamentalist » type who's trying to cram your beliefs about so-called NT's down our throats).

Anyway, I do not « subscribe » into the whole NT/AS thing as currently defined or practiced, and even the entire « profession » itself admits that nobody can really [f*****g {because insert NT-sounding social-talk here}] agree as to what Aspies even are ! Now I said earlier in this post that I find it amazing how « neuro-typicals » are very quick to mock & ridicule others for simply being different. I also find it very IRONIC that your « typical » neuro-typical will actually « sign a petition » just because it's apparently the « social » thing to do at any said given time...

The way I see it is that, when a « neuro-typical » insists upon being stubborn, and insists on going to great lengths to seem to want to « argue » all the time, I WILL eventually get fed up with that s**t, and was one of THE reasons why I had completely cut off communication from my so-called mother & simply stopped talking to her or allowing her to have any contact information related to me for over seven years in a row (and apparently she still didn't really change very much for the better in terms of shutting her mouth or apologising when errors about her behaviour were pointed out instead of always trying to start an argument over everything for which she was clearly in the wrong about which is a type of dishonesty that I absolutely cannot stand for nor tolerate). I don't know what it is with these "NT"s and trying to pass themselves off as « saints » who've « never » (and I QUOTE that word, because apparently, NTs use the word "never" a LOT, regarding their own behaviours) done anything that warrants them needing to make any apology.

I will give a specific example with my own mother: She had often said before that I « have never even once called her 'mom' » (The FACT of this story was: I simply STOPPED referring to her as « mom » because she no longer deserved to have such a « title » for as far as I was concerned due to ruining VERY important aspects of my life & my own decision-making & always creating arguments ALL the f*****g time, and THAT is the reason I only referred to her on a first-name-basis). This is a « classic » example that demonstrates how « dishonest neuro-typical » behaviour is actually incompatible to any long-lasting relationship with an Aspie until that "NT" can learn to be both honest and accurate about the « realities » that we aspies seemingly « notice » regarding the many « mistakes » that are frequently made by said NTs.

Out in public, I don't have any problems making friends, but that's because I'm just popular that way, and perhaps it's because I am the one who is often approached, rather than me doing the approaching, plus it might help that people regard me as being a bad-ass (and I speak several languages). I CAN and I DO get along with the « peaceful » NTs, but I CANNOT and will NEVER associate long-term with any kind of war-mongering NTs, and insisting upon argumentation with false so-called facts/statements in my book is a war-mongering activity. You are close to the same age that my mother was when me & her still continued to have our continued debacles. I have a long life-span so I've been able to see a lot of s**t that goes on throughout the various cultures & societies. Out of all of my research-activities behind looking for a « cure » for NT-dishonesties, honestly, said NTs are really just being mind-controlled, perhaps even « spirit-possessed (also a form of mind-control) » without their awareness, and « pulling them out of the matrix » requires that they bother to put forth the effort to quit their mind-altering addictions, such as watching too much television, watching too many movies, and they also need to learn to start questioning everything, etc. Once they stop believing everything that they see on television, just because they saw it on television, then they at least have a chance at being able to develop some sort of an intellect, instead of contributing to & falling for all of these ridiculous scams that result in an Orwellian-style Police-State modeled after Nazi-Germany.

Question the Television-Advertisements: Serotonin and Depression: A Disconnect between the Advertisements and the Scientific Literature

I cut off communication with my mother, for much the same reason. I feel what you just said, pretty much every day. That same mentality seems to apply to many things, especially religion. Which is another reason my mother and I can't get along. She believes that christians are good and everyone else is bad. The biggest reason that I was always in trouble as a kid, is for questioning everything around me. I look back on my childhood, and most of those instances, I shouldn't have been in trouble. I am always considered an as*hole for being skeptical. And people are too quick to try to put me in my place. It scares me that they just seem to have this switch that gets flipped where they turn against you, when you question anything that they have been brainwashed to believe is true. I think if you can't talk about it, how good can it really be?

I understand that and that's why I even asked him if he has had something happen to him. I believe he mentioned something about how NT's try to scare bad habits out of children (something like that). I asked if that happened to him in his life and he didn't say anything. Right now the way you are explaining to me why you feel the way you do - I appreciate that. I'm going to go out of my way to actually try to understand what you are saying and why you feel like you do. He's not even trying to be open in discussing anything or trying to understand the other side. He probably doesn't even think there are any good NT's, but there are. If someone from the NT side is trying to understand the Aspie side and offer some help in getting Aspies to understand the NT side of things, isn't that a good thing? Why would any Aspie want to run that person off?

Btw, thank you for sharing some of your private life and trying to explain things to me as you see them and for trying to understand my side of things - it means a lot. Anyway, I'm off to bed. Goodnight.

Who's helping who ?
Do any of the following sound familiar? At first your caregiver is amazing. He or she seems truly devoted to giving you the best care possible. But then this person to whom you’ve entrusted your care begins to criticize you and find fault with everything you do. When you try to stand up for yourself, what you get in return is a lecture or a tirade about how you’re too sensitive or how you’re making the caregiver’s life too hard.
Is Your Caregiver Self-Absorbed and Manipulative?

I'm not sure if I came across right.. I wasn't defending him or making excuses for him. I was trying to help you, because you seemed to start these threads, in wanting to understand your specific questions. I was trying to give some insight, because you seem upset.. and seem to not understand where some of us are coming from. We all have reasons for being the way that we are, including you.

For myself, I tend to push many people away because I am scared of them, or I just find it much easier and more peaceful for myself, to not bother with them. I've tried with many people, often at my own expense, only to get betrayed later. The most common way that I have lost NT friends, is that they do something to hurt me, then they run off in denial, telling lies about me, and why they cut off the friendship, ruining my reputation further. I never speak up or defend myself, because I don't want to play that game, and because I feel as if nobody would listen to my side anyway. I just prefer to keep my distance from NTs because it's always left me feeling used and hurt, after the exhausting friendship, where I am expected to do everything they want to do, and always told how wrong I am. I do have friends who are NT, but we are not close. I also do not want to try a relationship with one, ever again. This isn't personal. This is just what I need for my own life.

I also want to add that I don't think you're viewing this the way that I am. I don't look at people and think they're an NT and run away. I don't hate them. I believe in getting to know someone as an individual.. with their own morals and personality traits. I view an NT as someone that has the neurotypical thinking process, and lacks the ability to speak my language, just as I lack the ability to speak theirs. We live in a world full of people who are misdiagnosed, undiagnosed, or people who just simply deviate from the "norm". It's not some type of spectrum where you have people with aspergers/autism on one end of it, and neurotypicals on the other. I just happen to need the company of those who can deviate from the "norm" and aren't afraid of skepticism and blunt honesty.. And people who can respect my space and privacy. And if I couldn't have that, I would prefer to just be completely alone.

I think that we all want people we can relate to in our lives. If we can't relate to them, we tend to feel like s**t when we're around them. I hope this helps some. Just try to remember that you came here to learn. You might not always get the response you want, but you do get to see all different sides and viewpoints. I think if you were to go back, and read what he wrote again, without the personal connection, you could learn a lot about what it's like for many of us.. and just simply understand, at the same time, that he also only has the ability to speak for himself. I relate to a lot of what he's said, but not all of it.

Also, I think that the imbalance that you might be feeling, is coming from the fact that you are surrounded by people with apergers/autism, in a forum based on social skills. Your idea of what is rude, isn't always going to be considered rude by everyone here. If you were to take these same conversations elsewhere, you'd probably have lots of people agreeing with you. And you are probably used to that. The things that you are trying to tell him about his behaviour, he is probably also used to hearing. I know that I am. I know that I frustrate people.. that people find me rude and unlikable. I know that I have trouble getting along with people. I hear it every day. That's part of why I am here.

Have a good night. ^^

*Edited to add.. I wouldn't be dependent on that apology. I don't know whether or not you'll get it. But if it were me, I would not apologize. You came here, asking for a favor. He worked hard on detailed lists and let you see the parts of his mind that you were asking for. He didn't have to do that. None of us did. I thought he did a great job and didn't sugar-coat anything. Not only did that take a lot of thought, but it's not easy to write things about yourself, that you know will be judged so harshly by others.

Having contributed to this thread earlier on, I've now come back and read through the whole thing. As requested by the OP, there have been some excellent, honest and direct points made, particularly by Fnord, Campin_Cat and JakJak - especially the post above, which I think pretty much sums up the general feeling.

While I'm sure nurseangela's (the OP) intentions were genuine, I'm afraid that the line she has taken hasn't always been very sensitive, with the result that quite a lot of the posters are now upset. This is regrettable, unnecessary and avoidable. It seems to be yet another example of what can happen when NTs try to establish some kind of common ground with Aspergians, and then don't understand or like the responses they get. Being BAP I tend to be able to see both the AS and neurotypical points of view, although I'm more comfortable with the Aspie view. What I do know is that the autism spectrum is immensely complex, and that no amount of NT bulldozing will produce clear answers. If you hit a hornets' nest with a stick, the result is wholly predictable.

So might I respectfully suggest that we leave this topic alone for a while, and quietly contemplate what has been said.

Yeah, I wish I was more of a "math person", myself.

The problem that I've had with a few NTs, is that they become intimidated, with what I know, and THEY are the ones who get-out the yardstick and measure themselves up, to ME, and decide they don't measure-up----and then they accuse ME of thinking that I'm better than them, when I've done no-such-thing; it's their OWN insecurity, and I can't do anything about that (their insecurity, or my knowing something they don't).

The end-result was, I got hurt, because they went-around telling people that I think I'm better than everybody else, and then I'M the one who has to suffer-through explaining myself, trying to rectify the situation, trying to make things alright, again, etc., when all-the-time, THEY are the ones who caused the problem----but, they don't see it, that way; so, because things will never change with that person, I distance myself from them (I'm NOT going to pander), and then that just adds fuel to their "fire", cuz THEN "arrogant", or "aloof" is ALSO added to the list of reasons why *I* am the one that's in-the-wrong.

Have you ever watched "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"? The film was the second to win all five major Academy Awards (Best Picture, Actor in Lead Role, Actress in Lead Role, Director, and Screenplay) following "It Happened One Night" in 1934, an accomplishment not repeated until 1991 by "The Silence of the Lambs". Actress Louis Fletcher put in a smashing performance as the character "Nurse Ratched".A real piece of work, she was. She got her well-deserved comeuppance at the end of the movie, too. It didn't escape the audience's notice how closely the character's name resembled the word "Wretched", either.

What does this mean?

My question is do Aspies even want to discuss the issues between Aspies and NT's? Aspies have a right to be upset with NT's about some of the things they do and say. I agree with that. However, there are reasons why NT's do certain things that are made fun of by the Aspie community. Trying to explain some of the reasons why NT's do these things is the reason for this thread. I'm not here to argue and be told I'm too emotional - women get told that all the time and its demeaning. I'm open to anyone wanting to have a civilized discussion about the actual thread topic.

The same could be said from the Aspie point of view ...

My question is do NTs even want to discuss the issues between Aspies and NTs? NTs have a right to be upset with Aspies about some of the things we do and say. I have no quarrel with that. However, there are reasons why Aspies do certain things that are made fun of by the NT community. I'm not here to argue and be told that I don't know what I'm talking about - Aspies get told that all the time and it's both demeaning and discouraging. I'm open to anyone wanting to have a civilized discussion about the actual thread topic -- which is "What can an NT do to make a friendship work with you?" -- so I expect to be able to answer that question without any degree of hostility from the people asking it, as long as my answers fall within the boundaries set forth by the rules of this website.

But if you want only answers that you agree with, then maybe you should tell us what answers you want before we give them; and please don't say that you want only "honest" answers, because that's what you've been getting all along ... much to your discomfort.

You're coming at me in both threads, so keeping them separate is getting difficult. Anyway, I agree with everything you just said. Once things get personal, though, that person is going to shut down and get defensive, which I think is what happened here. The other thread about what some of the things NT's do had to closed down on the other web site because it must be a difficult topic to discuss. If the thread needs to be closed down, then that's what is going to have to happen, but I wish it wouldn't come to that.

I want honest honors, but blanket statements about a specific group are just untrue and anyone reading the information is going to get the wrong idea about that group. I have never said any blanket statements regarding Aspies. If I don't understand something, I ask if there is a reason for what I'm not understanding and I try to learn from it. The other thread was made to try to explain why NT's act a certain way. I admit some NT's are rude, very rude. While other NT's seem to do weird things, but aren't meaning to do those things - their brains are just wired that way.