Calling all cultured aspies

Page 6 of 9 [ 136 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

TwilightPrincess
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 29,884
Location: Hell

26 Jun 2019, 9:39 am

magz wrote:

My mother's accusations of my "lack of culture" are typically all about manners - but she has never taught me things she expects me to follow! She always claims they are "obvious".

My mom wouldn’t teach me how to use the washing machine because it was “obvious.”

Anyway, I don’t see how manners are “obvious.” Most of them are just based on silly, social conventions and don’t have a good purpose.

I think I do pretty good with manners, but I’m from a working class family. We’re all a bit more laidback and down-to-earth than some would be.

Prometheus18
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Aug 2018
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,866

26 Jun 2019, 2:08 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:

Prometheus18 wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

Prometheus18 wrote:

Benjamin the Donkey wrote:

Prometheus18 wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

My life could be described as a tragedy up until this point, but I still think there is much beauty and sublime experiences to be had in the here and now.

There's a melancholy about beauty and sublimity; they only ever point the way towards happiness, always leaving something further to be discovered. I've come to believe that that ne plus ultra can only be achieved by religious devotion.

There are shreds of happiness to be had here and there, but the balance of pleasure and pain will always favour the latter (for good biological reasons, if nothing else). The greatest happiness comes from devotion to our God on a personal level and, on an interpersonal level, striving not to bring pleasure to others (necessarily), but chiefly to rid them of their pain, which is far more preponderant. In secular terms, you can compare this to Popper's "negative utilitarianism". We must do all this in a spirit of humility and selflessness.

When you say "our God, " whose god do you mean? Thor? Zeus? Allah? Krishna? And what
about the sublime achevements of artists, philosophers and scientists who achieved personal meaning by devoting themselves to their work but had no need for a god, at least in the traditional sense?

The god that actually exists. Important to note, however, that all Muslims and some Vaishnavi Hindus identify their gods with the Christian god, so that there isn't necessarily any disagreement there about which is the correct god, but about what is His nature and what is the proper manner of worshipping him.

I would suggest that very little good art has been produced by nonbelievers. Philosophers and scientists aren't really relevant in a thread on the subject of culture, though it's obviously true that many prominent ones are/were atheists.

How would you define “good” art?

What you suggested above is a good working definition, though I'd add the qualification that good art must be moral and educative (in the etymological sense of "leading forth", or upward). It's this latter condition that excludes much modern art (or what passes for it), given that modern art is largely designed to undermine morality, self-respect and charity.

I would disagree with you here. I happen to love modern art. True art creates an emotional experience in the viewer while it tells us something about the human condition. Dadaism reflects that very nicely. Life is often chaotic, absurd, or ridiculous.

Looking at different art styles enables one to experience different facets of life whether it’s sublimity, passion, reverence, or irreverence. I would be extremely bored if every piece of art depicted a Christian theme. I love Egyptian art, cave paintings, Greek statues, and various renderings of Hindu gods or Buddhas.

An artist doesn’t need to believe in God (or the “right” god) to give us an emotional response and to tell us something about what it means to be human.

I like some modern art, just not where it tends to degrade or stultify. Dadaism is in general a celebration of ugliness and/or immorality and, as such, not good art, in my view, though you're quite free to disagree if you wish. At best, it's amusing and clever satire, but not art.

I have never stated that good art need be Christian; I, too, am a fan of Chinese and Indian art, as well as some art produced in the West by nonbelievers, not least in pre-Christian antiquity. One of the greatest poems ever produced is Khayyam's Rubaiyat. All of this art meets my two conditions.

Magna
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Jun 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,932

26 Jun 2019, 7:50 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:

AndyBeans wrote:

I tick all of the boxes but don't want to be part of any "cultured" clique, entirely due to the experiences of becoming "well educated".

A professor told me in college that one of the purposes of an education was to teach us how little we know.

That, combined with a background in sociology centered around topics like ethnocentrism, keeps me from viewing specific cultures as superior to others.

There’s a lot of beauty and meaning to be found all over the world, not just in museums.

What is your definition of "cultures"?

TwilightPrincess
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 29,884
Location: Hell

26 Jun 2019, 8:00 pm

Magna wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

AndyBeans wrote:

I tick all of the boxes but don't want to be part of any "cultured" clique, entirely due to the experiences of becoming "well educated".

What is your definition of "cultures"?

“The customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or social group.”

I dislike the notion of elitism and like to celebrate the various cultures that make up America (and beyond). There’s a tendency to give greater value to highbrow Western culture than others.

Even the term “cultured” implies that a specific set of mores as defined by one’s society is superior to another.

Summer_Twilight
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 Sep 2011
Age: 43
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,245

27 Jun 2019, 7:19 am

Each culture has its own set of unwritten rules regarding social skills and all that. In China, I have heard that it's rude to point to a bathroom. Rather, you use your whole hand to point to the bathroom.

magz
Forum Moderator

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

27 Jun 2019, 7:22 am

Summer_Twilight wrote:

It is generally more polite to use your whole hand to point directions, in Western societes, too (to avoid unintentionally pointing at people).

_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>

Summer_Twilight
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 Sep 2011
Age: 43
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,245

27 Jun 2019, 10:01 am

They expect you to be descriptive about something instead of pointing which is harder for people on the spectrum to do as communication is a struggle.

cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

27 Jun 2019, 10:32 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

One prominent example is "gentil." "Gentil" meant, merely, "upper crust" in the Middle English period. There was no connotation which resembled the present-day "gentle."

This word is actually introduce by the french speaking Normans....there was no such word (Gentile or gentle) in "old English"

cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

27 Jun 2019, 10:35 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Anyone read the Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer written in it's original middle English? I'm guess zilch...

I did, but it was due to taking Chaucer in college. The professor was very staunch about not reading translations. I wouldn’t have done it willingly on my own; I prefer a good translation. At least it made reading anything else seem exceptionally easy.

I can’t help but laugh when I remember specific lowbrow discussions we had. Fun times!

I prefer the otherway...reading Chaucer's middle English version + Modern English translation is fascinating to see the evolution of old English which is a language I have quite the obsession over.

In my view Tolkien's Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones would be so much better if they were written in a form of Middle English

TwilightPrincess
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 29,884
Location: Hell

27 Jun 2019, 10:52 pm

cyberdad wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Anyone read the Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer written in it's original middle English? I'm guess zilch...

The progression of the English language was never a big interest of mine for some reason. I love what Chaucer said more than how he said it although it’s interesting to see the differences he employs based on his characters’ distinct social classes in The Canterbury Tales.

I enjoy Early Modern English as much as present day English, though. I love reading Shakespeare.

I definitely didn’t pick up on everything I read for my Chaucer class. I got a good grade, though, and presented a paper at an undergrad conference (speaking of stuffy and pretentious...

). I did pretty good at reading ME quotes aloud but it made me super nervous.

I love Lord of the Rings ( :heart:

), but I prefer it in its present form.

kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

27 Jun 2019, 10:57 pm

I know it came from Norman French.

I knew it wasn’t in Old English.

cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

28 Jun 2019, 1:18 am

Twilightprincess wrote:

[ it’s interesting to see the differences he employs based on his characters’ distinct social classes in The Canterbury Tales.

Exactly! and very perceptive of you to pick this up. Chaucer's tales attempt to recapture the culture of the common folk who's voices and lives were relegated to obscurity in the puritanical class-ridden world of Anglo-Norman England.
Up to 1066, the Anglo-Saxon system was remarkably democratic, with all levels of society having representation and a good chance of having their voice heard.
But the arrival of a new ruling class, speaking an entirely different language and being completely separate, changed all that; now Saxons were suddenly an underclass who spoke English, with a ruling class who spoke French. Even though the two languages eventually merged into Middle English, the language distinctions are there to this day when you hear a Yorkshire farmer speak with almost the same accent as his Old English forbearers whereas the upper aristocratic class speak English the in the accent of Normans/French/Latin forbearers (although the British royals are predominantly Danish/Germans).

Trueno
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Jul 2017
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,788
Location: UK

28 Jun 2019, 1:45 am

cyberdad wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

[ it’s interesting to see the differences he employs based on his characters’ distinct social classes in The Canterbury Tales.

I've studied all forms of English from Old English to present day. I'm also surrounded by Yorkshire farmers here. Your statement above is completely incorrect. There isn't even a single "Yorkshire" accent... the place is so big that you can pick out many variations depending upon area. The Yorkshire accent and dialect has evolved from Middle English. Upper classes tend to speak RP (received pronounciation) which is a more recent construct... but even RP is changing if you listen, for example, to recordings from the middle of the 20th century.

_________________
Steve J

Unkind tongue, right ill hast thou me rendered
For such desert to do me wreak and shame

cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

28 Jun 2019, 1:51 am

Trueno wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

[ it’s interesting to see the differences he employs based on his characters’ distinct social classes in The Canterbury Tales.

ummm my neighbour is a Yorkie and he confirmed what I already knew
The Yorkshire dialect has roots in older languages such as Old English
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkshire_dialect

Trueno
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Jul 2017
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,788
Location: UK

28 Jun 2019, 2:20 am

cyberdad wrote:

Trueno wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

[ it’s interesting to see the differences he employs based on his characters’ distinct social classes in The Canterbury Tales.

ummm my neighbour is a Yorkie and he confirmed what I already knew
The Yorkshire dialect has roots in older languages such as Old English
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkshire_dialect

You got it from Wikipedia? That explains a lot. Try using some proper academic rigour.
You changed your original assertion to...
The Yorkshire dialect has roots in older languages such as Old English... which is true...
From...
You hear a Yorkshire farmer speak with almost the same accent as his Old English forbears... which is not true.

_________________
Steve J

Unkind tongue, right ill hast thou me rendered
For such desert to do me wreak and shame

Last edited by Trueno on 28 Jun 2019, 3:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

28 Jun 2019, 3:06 am

Old English is very much like German when spoken.

Page 6 of 9 [ 136 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 Next

Jump to:

Calling all cultured aspies Post Reply New Topic

Calling all cultured aspies