common courtesy - does she really not know ?

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My friend is college aged Aspie. Hey name is Kay. A friend of Kay's is texting with her. The friend tells her that she is expecting a baby, and is very excited. Is it not obvious to Kay that she should say something like "Congratulations!" or "How exciting!", and maybe ask a question like "When are you due?" or "Boy or Girl?" or something like that? Kay said nothing in response, and again nothing when the friend mentioned it again later.

Should I tell her that when somebody announces good news - an engagement - new baby - etc --- that there is just a social convention in place that some sort of positive reaction is expected?

I feel weird being her manners coach - is it the case that she does not KNOW that she "should" say something nice - or that she just doesn't feel excited about the news therefore she can't respond positively?

I would tell her. I have done things like that without meaning to, years ago. Sometimes I still do, but not very often at all now. I'm sure she knows that people are supposed to do that, but when I'm in her situation and don't respond the way I know is polite it's because I'm just not processing it correctly and I don't see it as "one of those situations where I'm supposed to fake excitement for somebody else when it really doesn't matter to me". If I recognize it as that, I'll do it but sometimes it's only months or years later when a similar situation comes up that I remember one where I didn't respond right, and I'll feel bad. If you tell her about it now, she can do damage control and say she was distracted at the time, etc.

I would say something to her that won't be embarrassing to her like you were "correcting" her and say "Were you distracted or something when you talked to your friend? I'm only asking because you didn't say congratulations or act excited about her baby." Then, depending on what she says, you say something like "That's just what people expect you to do. You're supposed to act excited and happy over other people's good news. You should probably tell her you were distracted by something and congratulate her and ask her a couple of questions about it."

If she's told you to tell her when she misses something or makes a social mistake then you don't have to tiptoe around it like that. Depending on how well she gets your point, you may have to tell her flat out "She will think you are rude and don't like her if you don't fix this right now. Try to always sound happy for people whether you are or aren't". That's what had to be done with me.

She might be intimidated or fear she'll say it wrong. Maybe the preggers girl has given her grief in the past for not saying things perfectly.

The Asperger's girl does not know. It helps to spell things out to us specifically.

Me personally, I don't say anything if I don't know what to do in a social situation. If you tell me what the rule of etiquette is, I will follow it. Kind of like Sheldon on Big Bang Theory, you have to say it is a non-negotiable social convention.

College age... I'm not American... that's late teens, right? Saying things like congrats on pregnancy, new jobs and similar was not obvious to me at that age at all. I learned that the hard way from people I inadvertently offended by not knowing.

As for asking questions, that isn't something that comes natural to me at all. It doesn't occur to me, and knowing that it should, doesn't make questions come to me.
Coming up with things to say is one of my biggest issues.


For me, I didn't know. But lack of excitement can also contribute. One concrete example: When I was 17 I knew someone who had just had a baby. It was the first time I met all 3. I honestly didn't even notice the baby, I launched right into saying something about my new pet (after hi). Then the guy said they had something new too and pointed at the baby. I looked at the bundle in the woman's arms. I had briefly noticed her holding something but only then did I see what. My not only first but only thought was "the end of the life, huh?", which I thankfully kept to myself. What I said was a completely disinterested "Oh."

Now I just gotta laugh at how clueless I was!

Some 4 years later I was genuinely excited about my cousin's infant daughter and the new baby she was expecting. I didn't congratulate her (didn't occur to me) but I showed my excitement both in spending time and playing with the child and talking about the unborn one and watching ultrasound pics of him.

So if she shows no excitement chances are she isn't.


Yeah, you should tell her... But... She's female and that means you gotta tell her the right way. Females are far more sensitive to how things are said. If you make it sound like criticism or berating I know I wouldn't listen. Same if you just made me feel stupid.

Be calm. Be patient. If you're upset with her, don't deal with it there and then, wait until you can talk to her calmly. If she's upset, wait till she's calm.
Be direct and clear.
Explain what is expected of her and explain how it affects people otherwise. For me at least, that last part gives me incentive to do things differently. I need to understand how and why they react, otherwise it just seems lame to me and I won't really get it or even try to.
If she can't understand one particular situation, try to use an example she'll get so she can comprehend.
Never call her out on anything in front of anyone else, do it one on one.
And understand that it's a learning curve. Just because you've explained it well doesn't mean she'll do it right in any given situation.

Is it not obvious to you that she most likely doesn't, as evidenced by the fact that she hasn't?

Tell her that congratulating on a pregnancy, that was desired by the pregnant, is actually a non-optional social habbit. ^^

When the friend "mentioned it again later" was that by text too? I think that's important, because relying on well scheduled and properly composed replies by text without regard for circumstances at the other end is straightforwardly not a reasonable idea.

I'm pretty repulsed by any suggestion that any habit or ritual is not negotiable. I know it's kind of a joke but still, it makes me uncomfortable (I'm not talking about non conflicing routines that make things run smoothly. But what someone ought to be happy about is not uncontroversial). I know it's unlikely in her case and it's probably a matter of mustering up the focus and will to phrase it properly or whatever, but just for example's sake I would *personally* find congratulating someone on an engagement, marriage or pregnancy deeply dishonest so I simply don't do it.

Does anybody else think it's a little odd that people will be all "our sex life is none of your business" usually (which is fair enough) ... but then if they get pregnant (which is like saying "we're fertile and had a lot of unprotected sex, and now as an obvious consequence I'm pregnant" , everybody is expected to be all "well done, you're pregnant" ?

It also seems like a cruel social convention from the perspective of people who have been having long-term fertility problems, as evidenced by this topic here which I just found :

http://community.babycenter.com/post/a25355591/who_else_is_sick_of_congratulating_other_people_on_being_pregnant

This person puts it another way -

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2162252

I doubt that all of the people in agreement are autistic.
That said, this one comment stood out :

It might be helpful to tell her, even if you think she might know, that the person may feel bad if she does not make some comment. It might be that she doesn't feel congratulatory about it or thinks something negative, in which case she has chosen not to say anything instead of making a negative remark, or perhaps no comment occurred to her at the time. Frankly, even though I *know* that such responses are expected in theory, it doesn't mean they always come out right, especially if it is something surprising sprung on me for which I haven't prepared a response (making some suggestions about basic responses might be helpful to her, at least I find that helpful).

For example, one time a coworker of mine returned from leave after his wife or girlfriend had a baby. I walked into the room and he unexpectedly pulled out a picture of the baby to show. Immediately several other people flocked around and they said the baby was "cute" and some other things, which I don't remember now. I stared at the picture and felt the seconds tick by as I was expected to make a response. However, cute, sweet, etc had already been said and I could NOT think of any other generic remark. The only other thing I could remember hearing people say about babies was that the baby looked like one or the other parent (someone may have even said that), and while I did not know what the mother looked like, the baby didn't resemble him in any way except for being bald. Negative remark, so I didn't say that. Also the baby was not cute at all in this newborn photo, even if I had wanted to try to reuse one of the other phrases, I knew it would both be and sound inauthentic. As the moments passed everyone fell silent waiting for me to say something. All I managed was, "Hmmm." I was trying to stall for time, to think of something else appropriate, but with this remark everyone started ribbing me about saying Hmm and making fun so there was nothing else to do at that point, and he got embarrassed and moved on while I escaped to my cube.

So even though I KNEW some type of positive response was expected, I didn't manage to make it out. I could easily imagine myself saying "oh?" or something in response to baby news if I wasn't prepared, though the photo was even harder because of having something specific I was supposed to talk about. Afterwards, when I related this story to some family members in hopes of advice, I got advice like, "all babies are cute" or you should just say cute or precious, etc even if someone already said it. However saying that when I didn't think that is pretty hard, even if I do force myself to say something I don't really mean (lie) it doesn't sound natural, the tone of voice gives me away no matter what. It's better if I can come up with something neutral to say which is not opposite my true feelings, but not negative or hurtful either. But sometimes that doesn't happen on the moment.

If told only that something is a "non-negotiable social convention" (a line I've indeed heard from Penny many times!), my instinctual reaction would be to REBEL and refuse to do anything approaching it!! ! If you want me to follow your convention, you'd ****ing better explain WHY it's such a non-negotiable convention!! !

As for the original post: I'd really consider the possibility that Kay doesn't FEEL excited about the baby, because that would certainly make it less than obvious how to respond!! For me, it would probably occur if I didn't know whether or not the pregnancy was wanted. An unwanted pregnancy, after all, is just about as much of a BAD thing as a wanted pregnancy is good!! ! And for me to ask whether it was wanted or not reeks of prying...

I feel like this constantly. Someone's engaged - so what? We all knew that would happen, and don't you know, half of marriages end in divorce, so I guess the most appropriate thing is to say, "Good luck!". But I have to say, "That's super!".

Honestly, I am rarely excited. All these supposedly "good news" items I find to be unremarkable and quite predictable. After teaching myself for about 15-20 years I know for sure I have to say something nice and pretend to be interested. Usually my interest in my family, partner, and closest friends is slightly genuine. However sometimes I recognise the situation and feel totally blank inside, thinking, "WHY do I HAVE TO say something, when I don't care much, and whatever I say will be predictable, and won't change the fact that they are happy with the news?".

Actually it's a nice vocabulary challenge to say something unexpected regarding pregnancy, baby, wedding, going on a holiday, even if you don't care at all. Maybe, "Sounds like a pretty cool new stage of your life", "Lovely, and it will bring all of you and your family together" etc.

RE telling us we've been insensitive, one possibility is to suggest it to us in general; maybe, "So, you have Asperger's, right? And sometimes that means you don't know about certain social cues?"…. "Well, would you appreciate it if I tell or remind you when you might have missed one of these cues?". If you do that in advance, this gives you license to tell us at any time. However, giving someone advice when they weren't open to it can often place them on the defensive. In this instance, she might also ask, "What do you mean? Have you got some examples of when I wasn't sensitive?"… then you can be more specific.

Always give such unsolicited advice (to an Aspie or to anybody) one-on-one, in private, at a "neutral" low-stress time. Probably not when rushing, going to the exam or the airport, or when something is going wrong.

I'm that way too. Very few things are actually "non-negotiable social convention". I guess it depends on the situation but to me "non-negotiable social convention" would mean that there are extreme consequences to doing/not doing something like getting arrested or assaulted, not having someone disapprove or be a bit mad at you.

I wouldn't know what to say to a pregnant person or someone with a new baby. I never wanted kids and I don't like babies.

Its not necessary to want children on your own, to congratulate someone. If you had fun by playing a computergame and defeating a very hard boss, I need as well not to be interested in playing the game myself, to crongatulate you. ^^

The OTHER person is happy, and you simply tell by congratulating, that you are happy about this person being happy. About what that person is happy, is not relevant. Additional pregnancy is a big step, that is linked with tons of hard desicions and consequences, and its naturally, that people, even when showing to be happy, are a bit concerning and bothering about that. The congratulations serves as well to give that person some positive emotional booster, that the person will need, to avoid her concerning too much about things, that are not to be changed.

No, I can safely say that I haven't thought like that. I wish I hadn't read that. Now I just know I'm gonna think something like that the next time someone tells me they're pregnant lol. I just know I won't be able to look them in the eye at all!


It will always be a sore point for those who are involuntarily childless. But I don't see any cruelty in it due to that.
Some people suffer in forced marriages. That doesn't make it cruel to congratulate someone getting engaged or married.
Just like it's not cruel to people in grief to celebrate the birth of a baby, it's not cruel to be happy for someone who is expecting.

It's bound to sting them, but people with normal emotional regulation should be able to recognize it for what it is. I think that first post needs to be seen as a rant more than anything else. And 10 months really isn't long trying to conceive.
The second link was just a rant about how unavoidable he thought pregnancy is. I hope he's nicer to his friends than what he appeared in that thread, that's all I have to say.

That other post you quoted pretty much said it all, it's just a way of wishing them well.



I wouldn't put it quite that strongly but I do generally agree with this. "Do it, it's non-negotiable" will definitely rub me the wrong way. Explaining why and letting me know how it affects people is never wrong and helps me understand why it's important.

Whether or not I can relate to their reaction isn't important. Their feelings are valid and something I don't wish to disregard.



Exactly. I'm very glad I have moved on from the severe lack of understanding I had at 17. The weird thing is that I understood it perfectly when on the receiving end of it. Still I couldn't project the same on them.

Yes, I believe you should explain to her. The love of my life has Aspergers and understands that by explaining such social graces to her has enabled her to learn to react to such situations in an acceptable way.