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Deinonychus
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23 Feb 2010, 11:42 am

I'm kind of desparate now!
There are so many things I have to improve to function in this stupid society. :(
I am starting to think that I can't do anything at all. As my little sister tells me.
It's not enough with will (I have a huge will), which I initially thought.

- Talking. I must be able to talk to others. I even have troubles talking to my parents, and I'm totally noiseless in social interactions. Being a skilful talker is exactly what I want to become. "But how?" is my big question.
- Eye contact. I've been practising this for a very long time, but no progress.
- Fear. Well, I have plenty of things I am terrified of - like phones. I wish so badly that I was able to talk in the phone, otherwise I can't talk to my best friend who lives in Norway. Or my future 'contact person' / support worker.
I am scared of people, but most of all kids, and I can't be around them actually.
- Smiling. I never smile. I don't know when it is appropriate to smile / laugh.
- Make friends. Pointless trying. Even when others try to get contact with me, I get very timid and hide myself.
If I just could do these things, I would have a happier life.

If you succeed with those things, how did you do?


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Silva20contraorder
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23 Feb 2010, 11:57 am

I succeeded with talking and conversing with others, more precisly "improved" with talking to people mainly by pepping myself up with music and using my knowledge of people to keep on thier level.

Eye contact, well what helped me personally with eye contact was martial arts, karate to be precise, I think being active in something your passionate about or enjoy will in time naturally improve your eye contact.

With fear, Im sorry but I cannot really help you but can say just talk about your fears.

Again like the above im no expert with making friends but I hope the above is somewhat helpful.


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musicboxforever
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23 Feb 2010, 12:01 pm

Ah, sisters. Yes, I have one of those. She is 5 years younger than me and very socialble. She can't understand why nothing comes into my head when I am in a room full of people. She invited me to one of her parties and I went and hid in her room and read a magazine.

You are young. I know that it is frustrating, but you have so much time to learn and grow as a person. You seem very determined too. I think that as time goes by you will change what you can and learn to accept what you cannot.



PLA
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23 Feb 2010, 12:07 pm

Withdrawn wrote:
I'm kind of desparate now!
There are so many things I have to improve to function in this stupid society. :(
I am starting to think that I can't do anything at all. As my little sister tells me.
It's not enough with will (I have a huge will), which I initially thought.

- Talking. I must be able to talk to others. I even have troubles talking to my parents, and I'm totally noiseless in social interactions. Being a skilful talker is exactly what I want to become. "But how?" is my big question.
- Eye contact. I've been practising this for a very long time, but no progress.
- Fear. Well, I have plenty of things I am terrified of - like phones. I wish so badly that I was able to talk in the phone, otherwise I can't talk to my best friend who lives in Norway. Or my future 'contact person' / support worker.
I am scared of people, but most of all kids, and I can't be around them actually.
- Smile. I never smile. I don't know when it is appropriate to smile / laugh.
- Make friends. Pointless trying. Even when others try to get contact with me, I get very timid and hide myself.
If I just could do these things, I would have a happier life.

If you succeed with those things, how did you do?


Fear: Have you tried speaker phone or internet calls? If you look in the other direction, it might let you pretend the person is in the same room.

Smile: If you're OK with forcing yourself to smile, start with smiling when you feel good. Work on that first, before figuring out when other people want you to smile.

Make friends: Go at a pace you're comfortable with. For example, if you send me a message, I would probably respond. If you hide yourself after that, that's fine. When you feel like coming out of hiding again, you could send another message. And so on.


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makuranososhi
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23 Feb 2010, 12:12 pm

It is not just the will to attain and pursue such things, but also the willingness to suffer embarrassment and accept that one will make mistakes... the latter being every bit as important as the former to reaching one's goals.


M.


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Willard
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23 Feb 2010, 1:28 pm

Withdrawn wrote:
If you succeed with those things, how did you do?


Well, social success is a matter of degree, so accept going in that your level of functioning may never be the same as many of those around you. That doesn't make you a total failure - its okay to be 'the quiet one'.

Also keep in mind that there have been a lot of people in this world who have grown up with AS and never been told they have anything wrong with them at all. All those things you're saying you can't do - we went out and did them because we were simply expected to, and nobody was going to allow us to get away with not doing them. That's not to say we necessarily did them well, but we fumbled our way through because we had to. And you can do them, too.

On talking and making friends: I did learn that being the person standing alone in the corner didn't always leave me lonely. Usually, sooner or later, someone else who was uncomfortable socializing would gravitate to my corner as well, and we'd become friends quietly making fun of all those social butterflies in the middle of the room. You don't have to be the most popular person in the place to have friends (in fact, IMHO the more friends you have, the fewer real friends you have). The best friendships are made through common interests - put yourself in places where people go, who like the same things you like.

I didn't appreciate it at the time, but when I was your age the best place for me to learn and develop skills interacting with people, as well as make a friend or two was church (youth groups, not service). You don't have to believe everything they believe, the point is to get yourself into a group of people your own age, and in my experience that group was a little less judgmental and cliquish than the ones at school - they seemed more willing to go out of their way to be inclusive and accepting. I was still the quiet one in the corner a lot of the time, but they were more likely to come and get me out of the corner and invite me to join them - that never happened at school.

Eye contact is a lot simpler than I think you realize. It is not necessary to stare at someone's face - just look them in the eye once in awhile, so they know you're aware of them. If you don't glance at them from time to time, they think you're ignoring them, or so lost in thought you can't hear them talking. I find I tend to stare at the floor a lot, so they think I'm concentrating intently on what they're saying. Often, I'm just wishing they would get to the point and shut up. :roll:

As makuranososhi points out, the key is understanding that failure is part of the learning curve, and you will continue to learn by increments your entire life, so don't ever expect that its going to become simple and easy, but you will grow into it. I wouldn't pin all my future happiness on anything that involves people, either. They're notoriously fickle and unreliable in the best of times. But they can be useful and amusing if you don't take them too seriously. :wink:



Eilidh
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23 Feb 2010, 1:32 pm

The first step is to want them which you've gotten to.
Just Start Very Slowly
I know how uncomfortable it can be. And I'm still getting there (I'm 24).
for the Talking-try starting out with small things like saying "Hello, How are you?" to people you may walk past. Or even just hello to one of your parents when you pass them walking wherever...
Phone- Try having someone practise with you. Set a time so both you know when to expect the person to call and start small, like "Hello?" and ask who it is and who they might need to speak to. and keep it at that. starting small is the key to these things. I understand where you're coming from and would be happy to do what I can to help.
You may private message me too if that is easier. If that is too uncomfortable then that's ok.
I've been where you are and it's ok to be afraid. the key though is to not be ruled by the fear.

Hugs
~Eilidh


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Deinonychus
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23 Feb 2010, 1:53 pm

In the first post I wrote 'noiseless' and I'm sorry if that's incorrect! I meant 'quiet'. :P

Thank you everybody!
All your replies helped me. I will try your advice.
You on Wrong Planet are amazing. :)


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BlueMage
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23 Feb 2010, 3:09 pm

You're just 13 years old, chill out. For now all you have to do is get good grades, and survive. You sound very intelligent and mature for someone your age, and in the years ahead you are going to mentally grow in leaps and bounds. Sometimes I wonder if this diagnosing just sets boxes and limits people, and sets them up to have a victim mentality. In 5 or 10 years, you won't even recognize your 13-year-old self.

It may seem unintuitive, but first thing to do is give up trying to be something you're not. You're you, and worrying about it isn't going to help anything. You have to give yourself credit for everything you put up with. Life isn't fair, and it isn't your fault. Social expectations can be like being expected to solve a jigsaw puzzle blindfolded and with your hands tied behind your back. There is no reason to feel guilty if can't solve the jigsaw puzzle, the situation is simply unfair... period.

So you have trouble with social interaction, but what is it that you want out of social interaction? Don't fall into the trap of believing that typical social interaction is satisfying and deep. There are so many people who are surrounded by friends but they feel lonely and alienated. If you are at a party and you look around, you'll notice that a good proportion of the people there are pretty uncomfortable and not having a great time. I find that even when I happen to find the ability to interact normally, I still feel pretty empty and lonely. In other words, just because you can get yourself to go through the motions, don't think it's going to make you feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside. Actually, you are barely even able to notice you did things "right" to begin with, you won't think or about it or you'll think you did things "wrong", because afterwards no one's going to reward you, you are not going to get some special feeling that tells you you did things right.

With all this emphasis on making friends, do you actually care about the people you want to be friends with? Who do you want to be friends with? Funny how in discussions of wanting to have friends, there is almost never any mention of who they want to be friends with. Are you actually interested in who they are, what they do? I'm as socially inept as they come, but when I meet someone who is actually interesting words come easily, because I actually want to know more about them, and so I ask where they are from, what they do and the details about it, because I am honestly curious.

There is no such thing as some universal set of "social skills". Either you fit in with people or you don't, either you are afraid of people or you aren't. "Social skills" means a completely different thing if we compare interacting with some inner-city teenage boys on a basketball court, and interacting with some old ladies in a knitting club.

I think you'd benefit from replacing this anxiety and guilt you exhibit with a healthy kind of anger. Conventional society is stupid, mean, unfair, and has much less to offer than you think. Once you realize that, then you can live your life thinking in more practical terms. You don't have to be like everyone else to function, find your own way to function. You are functioning already, right now, but I bet you do not give yourself credit for the things you actually are good at. Do you really think functioning normally in society is ideal? Let me give you hint: NO. Normal people are cattle... standing around chewing their cud, waiting to be milked and slaughtered, their ankles nipped at by sheepdogs as soon as the stray from the pack. Seriously... it really is that bad if not worse.

When it comes to telephones, well, I'm an adult with a college education and a high-paying technical job, I have my problems but I'm doing better than most... and I hate talking on phone. I have noticed other people in my workplace who are the exact same way. I just send email or talk to people in person if possible. Otherwise, I literally write down exactly what I'm going to say word-for-word and then dial the phone and read from it. I just try to be practical, and appreciate that talking on the phone is not easy. With not being able to see the other person, miscommunication is very easy, and the person on the other end can turn rude and impatient with no warning. The telephone really is terrible form of communication, it combines the stress of having to respond instantly in real-time, with the disconnect and miscommunication that naturally comes from talking to a disembodied voice. It boggles my mind how I can call someone up and recite words that I spent way too much time thinking about, imparting the simplest of information in the most straighforward manner, and STILL there are misunderstandings.

When it comes to fears, it helps to think about and imagine what it is exactly that you are afraid of, imagine it in detail step by step. Often we're just afraid that someone is going to get mad at us or uncomfortable. It helps to just think of how to respond to that in advance, and build up the confidence to realize that if someone else is upset, that's their problem and not a big deal to begin with anyway.

When it comes to eye contact, you know what they say, "eyes are the window into the soul". Looking into someone's eyes is powerful and reveals a lot of information. If its uncomfortable it's because some people are more sensitive to it than others. Its all so overwhelming that all that we consciously perceive at first is just the fear, that "TMI" feeling. I dunno, I don't look people in the eye often, I don't see it as a problem, I just glance once in a while. Maybe you can practice by looking at photographs of people. and like what someone else said, when you are engaged in an activity you actually enjoy it's much easier.

Being a "skillful talker" is definitely a useful skill. Although you don't say what you would want to use this skill for. Personally, sometimes I sound like a sage, and other times I sound like Sarah Palin being interviewed by Katie Couric. If I have something intelligent to say I can say it, if I don't, then I can't say much at all. If you are really interested I suggest you take up public speaking, because such groups approach speaking in a very organized and methodical way. They break it down in a systematic way. I don't know if they have "Toastmasters" in Sweden, but they have clubs all over the place.

Anyway, my main point is, the world is your playground, you have so much freedom and choices but you don't see them, you're too busy looking for ways to be normal. You need to stop worrying about fitting in and think more about what it is you want to have, what you want to do, who you are. If someone waved a magic wand and gave you all those skills you listed, I guarantee it would not make you happy. Because those things are just a means to an end, if you have those skills and use them without any purpose you will just feel empty inside. When you find a place where you actually fit in, where you have an actual interest and purpose, these things just start coming naturally.

In practical, concrete terms, all you probably have to worry about is getting good grades school, and even that is not necessary. Keep on the lookout for fellow outcasts and make friends with them instead of trying fit in with the cattle. If you want to socialize, approach people one-on-one and ask them something, anything, no matter how inane. Find hobbies etc. where you can have fun and enjoy life by yourself and forget all about stupid socializing issues every once in a while. When you make mistakes, learn from them, see the incidents as data points, instead of seeing them as reasons to feel anxious and guilty. Chill out and just enjoy what you can in life, there's no need to have everything figured out at your age. Take the time to notice other people and realize that the grass is not greener on the other side.



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Deinonychus
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23 Feb 2010, 3:52 pm

BlueMage
You write absolutely fantastically!
You got me thinking in a completely different way now.
I'll have everything you wrote in my mind.
I will actually write down everything you wrote and hang it up next to my bed.
I'm not going to struggle myself to death to be like everyone else.
A million thanks to you! :D


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willmark
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24 Feb 2010, 9:14 am

BlueMage wrote:
When it comes to fears, it helps to think about and imagine what it is exactly that you are afraid of, imagine it in detail step by step. Often we're just afraid that someone is going to get mad at us or uncomfortable. It helps to just think of how to respond to that in advance, and build up the confidence to realize that if someone else is upset, that's their problem and not a big deal to begin with anyway.

Are there any suggestions for those situations, like with bullying, where another person becoming upset does become your problem because it can make you vulnerable to getting injured, or have other impacts that directly effect you? Fears that stem from this kind of situation are not uncommon for Aspies.