Do you enjoy being trained like a monkey?

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One of the most humiliating things for me is when neurotypical (normal) persons, usually those in authority such as counsellors or doctors, tell me that it is my lack of social skills and traits such as honesty and overabundance of emotionality that cause me to be a pauper in social relations. The 'solution' is to go to special support groups for autistic people (fellow-victims) and be drilled in the art of 'proper' social interaction by the lovely NT support workers who volunteer their time there.

How now? Perhaps 'normal' people do indeed build up their social skills over many years, practising as it were at school on up, until it becomes second nature to them ... and so the same must be done by any person wanting to compete at their 'level'?

In which case, the autistic is, as in every other case, simply a slowcoach who didn't learn how to do things when everyone else did - when all the beautiful, attractive, successful people did.

And thus we are treated in life as second-class human beings (or worse), until we learn social skills from those NTs who deign to teach us, like dogs picking up crumbs from the master's table.

And inevitably we become in life second-rate socializers, too; until one day we find those among the NTs who tolerate us enough to give us a humble living, and tell us eternally that 'one day' we will find 'a' woman who will want us.

Perhaps this is a true sign of how stupid I really am, but I prefer my fantasies and perhaps ultimately even death itself to a life of slow, painful, torturing humiliation of this kind.

I don't like being treated like that, at all.

I'm in a program 'designed' for autistics, and i hate it.

Special Education is a stigma. While I like Aspie people, none of us will learn how to be 'normal' if we are around each other. If that is the point of the program-- to teach social skills, then it has already failed.

Special Education is a program designed for those who cannot cope with a reality designed for the majority. Until the autistic reality can be recognized as legitimate, autistics who think differently will spend their time accustoming to a reality that an NT takes for granted. By creating a class in 'social skills,' or 'theory of mind,' NTs are labeling my reality as false and the way my brain is wired as incorrect.

Should social workers who work with autistics take "special education classes" because their brains are not wired the same way as autistics? Have they even tried? I feel like its condescension to say that we should adapt to their reality, but not vice versa.

I go to group therapy 4 days a week and there I can practice some social skills with other people who also have other mental health problems. I have made some good friends there and I think that my social skills improved. Before that I was kind of isolated and couldn´t practice social skills. We can discuss social relationships more deeply and the therapists also give us some tips. Being around people who also have some problems helped me as they are somehow at the same level as you are. And they are also nice people. I like the place.

It took me about 10 years more to figure out what you did, David.

At this point, for me it is a tough balance - between honestly not giving a crap about 'normal' social interaction, and actually giving a crap because I wonder what I am missing, or seeing what other people have.

In the past I always stressed out, wished I had more friends, etc.

I actually have a sort of new confidence - I have accepted the fact that it is OK to be this socially limited person. Actually it makes me more social !

I agree though - it is hard to find the right people - docs, therapists, or whatever - most of them are on their high horse - they have some diplomas, years of experience or what not. Sure, they might be smart, but maybe they could take a different approach?

The original post seems totally unrelated to the thread title (and a bit anti-NT), so I'm just going to address the title which is what I came here to answer.

I'm not sure if this is anti-training, anti-our-user-Monkey here, or anti-simians in general, but as far as Operant Conditioning goes, training is the same for all species. Behavior can be influenced by positive reinforcement (a reward), negative reinforcement (taking away something you like) or punishment. Positive reinforcement is rather pleasurable, but the last two are rather unpleasant so I will have to give you a conditional answer:

YES, I enjoy being trained like a monkey (or other biological construct) when said training is done via positive reinforcement.
NO, I do not enjoy being trained like a monkey (or other biological construct) when said training is done via negative reinforcement or punishment.

I don't see learning to get along with other human beings as a form of humiliation. I see it as showing respect towards others who are making an effort to be polite to me.

I don't like being treated in a condescending fashion (which I find more of from the OP than most people); I do like learning to understand and adapt on my terms. I find more success being a better version of myself than a piss-poor imitation of something I am not.


M.

Truly spoken by somebody who didn't read the rest of the post or didn't understand it.

So who let loose the Stormtrooper division on me this evening? The 'leading lights' of the ignoramus movement have been extinguished and now begins the long march into violent subjugation and 'holocaust'.

Whaaaat? I just came here expecting information on monkey training! or at least a bit of bell ringing and salivating.



I'm not into killing Jewish people! Or anyone else either

'Cept when I don't shower for a few days. Jeez, stay away from me then! Phewwww!

Guys, chill out !
I totally feel David's frustration, which is mine as well. I'd rather people accept me the way I am, instead of them teaching me how to be them. All in all, whatever you learn has nothing to do with your original personality and you're just a walking lie (the perfect NT then...). People will accept you, wooo great! Except they will not accept YOU, but who you appear to be.

Now to be the "devil's advocate", of course learning social skills can prove useful, say, to get a job and not fail yet another interview like a pathetic loser...
Since most people can't accept us the way we are, we're kind of forced to go the other way around, which is playing NT, or the closest thing we can manage anyway. At work sometimes i force myself to go with the guys because for some reason staying alone means i'm evil incarnate. So i go over there but i basically just stand there and say nothing. Eventually I zone out and try to come back to Earth. NOT. EASY.

I understand your resentment. I can't say I've never been offended by those who I felt where trying to change my personality, and had allowed themselves to formulate vast misconceptions of who I was as a person and what I was and wasn't capable of.

If you are happy with who you are, and are happy how you live your life, as long is it does not unfairly or adversely affect anyone else, then I see nothing wrong with that. But remember, everyone is different and not everyone shares your sentients and has the same needs.

I do feel my parents took too much issue with me when I was a child because they were unable to cope with certain aspects of my personality, and that does upset me to some degree (though I know they thought they were acting in my best interest). However, I do wish I was taught about the rules of socialization and how to socialize when I was younger. But back then they didn't know very much about how to deal with those such as myself. I certainly can't say they didn't try though.

I also feel it's important to attempt to communicate with others in society. If I were living in China, I would learn their language and their culture. Since I live among NT's, I've attempted to learn their culture.

Last, remember there are those who are autistic and not able to communicate well, or at all, and not able to care for themselves. These individuals face vastly different challenges in life than many of who are able to post here on this forum. I do not think it's appropriate to overlook the differences between us and them, as the impact of their autism of their quality of life and the quality of life of those who must care for them can be quite profound, and intensive therapy can be beneficial.

I believe many of those who have HFA have benefited from the early intervention programs, as many of them start out functioning at a level seen in severe or moderately functioning autism, and likely would have stayed there if this were the 1950's, as back then it was simply common to institutionalize people and forget about them, and they never had the opportunity to progress.

I feel the same. But I have to say, the people who are trying to help, are only trying to help. I don't think they deserve to be resented.

i enjoy acting like a monkey!

what kinda monkey are we talking about here. like a zoo monkey, or one of the ones that dance on the street for change, cause personally id rather be the zoo monkey

neither