Are they really a friend?

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My issue has always been one way friendships. I think someone is a friend and I go along with that thought for some time. This may involve personal contact - talking often or having lunch if we work together, etc. I am very generous and many times buy people lunch if I have the money. It seems like a friendly thing to do - easier to pay the tab (I can't tolerate the people who pick apart every item on the bill and discuss it and get out their calculators, etc) and it's known that they will reciprocate. I remember and celebrate their birthday, buy something for other events in their life.

And always the same result - after some time passes the same things happen. Either I overhear or get told by someone else that they talk badly about me when I'm not around.

or

I realize the reciprocation on the lunches is not happening - I've paid for several (many?) and they haven't paid for any. It starts to occur to me that they only go to lunch with me when I pay....

My birthday comes and goes and they don't do anything. Other events come and go and they give gifts and do things for people they've told me that they hate, but do nothing for me.

If I stop making contact I don't hear from them at all. Meaning they will not seek me out to talk or hang out with - so if I leave them alone they seem okay with that.

People talk constantly it seems about how important friends are to them but are they really? It all seems to be a very superficial game that NTs play, lie to people's faces, talk bad about them to others, be phoney. That's the only way to keep a friend.

What I hate is the issue of someone who disappears like that or won't return several emails or doesn't do a thing for me and then suddenly is all smiles and wants to hang out. If I go with them eventually I'll learn that they want something - even if it's just that they want to use me to complain for an hour about their life. When they get the information or favor or usage they drop contact again.

In the past I've confronted these people when they return - not falling for the smiley stuff and ask what they really want. They act totally hurt, offended and then go and talk badly about me to others saying I hurt them needlessly. :\

If I go along with the smiley act and then later tell them I can't help - same bad treatment from them later.

I guess all NTs just smile to each other's faces and lie like crazy to everyone else and work hard to keep everything straight so they don't get caught. It's a huge waste of time and effort.

Is there such thing as a real friend?

i can really sympathize with these issues you've been experiencing with these so-called friends. that's really terrible of them to do. anyone who is insolent enough to take advantage of someone's kindness doesn't deserve you as a friend.
i have kind of experienced some of the same things. when i was in middle school i would buy my so-called NT friends gifts for x-mas and their birthdays and such and they just took what i gave them and then told me to f**k off in the language of polite snubbing. it was terrible but i learned not to give people gifts unless i was sure that they would want to give me one, too. most friends don't buy each other things or pick up the tab for one another unless they are very, very close. that's what i've observed. i've also learned that it's okay to be a tad bit arrogant. just think: why would they deserve something from you? and if you don't feel that they do, just make up an excuse. say you're low on money... but i personally i think you should try being arrogant/sarcastic toward these so-called friends and see what happens. i bet you can whittle them back down to size

earthmom, what you posted reads like the story of my life.
I can absolutely relate to the whole one-sided thing. And the two-faced BS from your other post.

I am amazed when I hear of people who have friends from high school... in other words, they've maintained a friendship for decades!

I'd be happy to have a friend for a couple of years.

I suspect that friendship is out of our reach. Perhaps a sound way to DX AS might be to put this question: "How many friends do you have?". Many might answer: "some" or more rarely "many" (this in fact is out of question). But to those who answer "some" a further question should be asked: "How much solidarity (in terms of any kind of possible help, including money) could you ask or give? Scant, scant. I think.
I would call it the deconstructionist method.
I feel like living in a total void. In fact in a remote planet. Not necessarily in a wrong planet. But heroism is required to live in this planet.

People like that aren't friends, they use you for their benefit and discard you when you finally figure out that they don't care about you. I had a lot of people like that in my life growing up, I thought if I did enough favours for them that they'd appreciate me - but they never do, and usually end up laughing at you behind your back. People like that are two-faced and fake, sad thing is, I doubt many of them even feel bad about it or think that what they're doing is wrong in any way.. though it seems to me a very evil thing to do.

This type of interaction has defined many of my friendships. I feel like I put everything into a friendship or potential friendship, and get little or nothing in return.

I have done some BIG things for people over the years. My family took in a young man for a couple of years to escape his terrible homelife. I kept a friend from committing suicide and sat with him for many days on end after his brother passed away and he got passed over for a job, all around the same time. I helped a friend that was a mayor of a small community get back on it's feet after a flood and did things for his family and community.

I feel like these people did not appreciate what I did for them at the time. The only thing I ever wanted was a little friendship in return, no money, nothing fancy, etc. Actually, for whatever reason, the friendship with these people soured after I helped them. Is there this unwrtten rule that people have to give back something in return, when someone gives?

I often wonder if it has to do with the fact that those of us with autism/AS have a tendency to smother people, while the people that we want to give friendship to are unavailable at the time for whatever reason for friendship? Two of the three friendships that I mentioned above, the people came back into my life, the friendship resumed its normal superficial self. As I get older, I have come to realize that friendship is best conducted on superficial terms.

Last edited by passionatebach on 07 May 2010, 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

That's really why I don't trust anyone. I've had bad friendships in the past during my school days to not bother anymore. I've got plenty of acquaintances but they aren't my friends because I don't see them outside of where we usually see each other.

Yes, I agree. My best "friends", the ones I have the most fun with, are the folks down at the feed store. We josh around, keep up to date with each other's families, trade books, and have no expectations of anything more than a few minutes conversation.

I've come to realize that genuine intimacy, heart-to-heart closeness is essentially an unreasonable expectation.

I've also come to realize that I'm actually pretty OK with superficial for the simple fact that it isn't demanding, I don't have to meet anyone else's expectations beyond simple civility and they aren't subject to mine. A little human contact and frankly, I'm good.

I always thought I needed more, but whenever the opportunity arises, it seems to require too much energy and I stay home. Duh.

That method is a good one. The statement that friendship is out of our reach is striking. That sounds so negative but it might be really positive - if you make up your mind that it is impossible, you don't try for it and continually fail. That may actually be the answer.

I often feel that void also.

This statement is especially true for me. All of my "friendships" ended at the same time a few years ago when I fell into a really deep depression. I cut myself off from everything, even severing my internet connection, for months. Not even noticing that time was passing anymore, I was dead inside. Eventually something happened and I found something within me that changed my outlook on life and I was healed, and happy. When I reconnected with the world I had found that nobody had missed me while I was gone. Not a single attempt from anyone to get in contact with me, see if I was ok, see if I was alive, nothing. In the past it would have spun me right back into the depression but in my new mindset I was content to just leave it. It is what it is. And what it is is that they were never my friends to begin with. I haven't heard from any of them since, except one time when one of them was coming in from out of town to see a concert and wanted me to check out how to buy tickets. Didn't ask how I was, just wanted me to find information for him. He even started the text message with "I don't know if this is still your phone number, but..." It had been more than 2 years since I'd heard from any of them.

Luckily, with my new feelings about life, I had decided to reach out to an old friend who I had done wrong by, and apologize for my actions. I didn't expect anything, I just thought he deserved an explanation. He responded that he forgave me and we should hang out, and now he's my only friend.

What a great ending to your story - I'm glad you figured it out and have a good result!

Thanks. It took me many years and lots of heartache to reach this point in my life.

That being said, this friend and I are fairly superficial friends, so I still don't know if there's such a thing as true, deep friendship.

I've had the same problem with a few friends. They were total users. Lie like crazy to get what they needed, and deny their ulterior motive. If I ever wanted something, even if it was just to hang out, it was like pulling teeth. Whenever they'd call me to hang out, several hours would pass then SURPRISE! They needed something. No matter how many times I confronted them, they'd just keep trying to take advantage, even when they should have realized it wouldn't work.



Of course. I think it's pretty rare for some people though, like me. I've had otherwise solid friends suddenly come down with a bad case of the "users" and never recover.

Yes, there is such a thing as a real friend but they are few and far between. In real life I have only one real friend. In addition I have intensive and close contact with quite a few people online.

What I have found, and that may be the key, was that not a single one of them is NT. All my friends are AS or AD(H)D or anything else other than NT.

My one best friend in real life is also slowly learning that lesson. He is a high functioning easy going adhd kind of guy who has collected a whole menagerie of 'friends' , or so he thought.

Until the moment he needed them instead of the other way around. At that point every single one of them fell through.

They say if at the end of your life it takes more than one hand to count the number of "true" friends you had in life, you are extremely lucky.

They also say that friends will help you move furniture, but that true friends will help you move bodies...and they will bring shovels and a bag of lime.

Most people who want to be considered your friend are looking to gain something. This is normal, but they are strictly users. They will show up at your parties and luncheons when someone else (or you) are picking up the tab. When it's their turn, they make excuses for why they can't (even though they have the means to do their part).

Once you learn that's how someone is, it's easier to just politely stop associating with them...or keep footing the bill knowing they are superficial associates and don't deserve to be called "friend."

However, "real" friends do exist. They are just very few and far between. Even people who are very popular and have lots of "friends" find that very, very, very few of them show up when they have a crisis and lose everything.

It's during times of adversity you find out who really cares about you. In good times, everyone likes you.

Sounds like reciprocity issues... hmmm, maybe latent Aspie traits in the general population?