Empathy and Asperger's. Is it possible? Please respond!

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Just finished reading "Mockingbird" by Kathryn Erskine. Caitlin is a 12 year old girl who's older brother was killed at school by another student.

She has been seeing a counselor to help her improve her social skills. The counselor is talking about empathy telling Caitlin she "should put herself in someone elses's shoes", to feel what they are feeling. I have always tried to that. Today while reading that excerpt my reaction was completely different. My thoughts were different. How could she understand what someone without Asperger's feels. Isn't that the equivalent of asking a NT to try to "put on the shoes of an Aspie". That would never happen either.

That brought up the thought that when I believe that I am empathizing with someone all I am doing is giving them my feelings, not theirs. I don't think that would help me to get along with other people successfully, do you?

Learning social skills just seem to be similiar to living in a foreign country and not understanding the language. I kind of think that learning another language could be easier.

irene

hmmmmm...i'm still tryin to figure this one out myself......i've learned that it's important to relationships and tried it....but it nevers seems right....people seem to like to talk to me (as if i'm a therapist) because they like that i see things from a Logical point of view....however when it comes to empathy i find it difficult to know how to respond...for example the loss of a loved one either person or animal.......i've been through that but still can't seem to figure out how to help someone else through it.....sorry for my odd sentence structure and rambling......i guess i didn't really answer you question....but if anyone else can help i too would like to know.....

The bolded part: That would be sympathizing, not empathizing.
Sympathizing is putting yourself in someone else's place, imagining how you'd feel or remembering how you felt in a similar situation.
Empathizing is imagining how someone else feels and having an emotional response to that.

That's how I understand it anyway.

Because aspies are all different (like snowflakes) some may be capable of empathy while others aren't.

I do have empathy. Actually, my diagnosis hit me by surprise. The psychiatrist had to explain to me, in detail, how I fit the bill when every one of my preconceived notions of Aspergers made it clear I wasn't a fit. But I am. This is me.

People with extraordinary pain have always come into my life. I'm like a magnet for the heartbroken. This isn't simple heartbreak, either. These are people who are suicidal, people whose loved ones have died from illness or been murdered, people who are ill or abused... very serious stuff. These are people who I can infer their feelings for them. They're very clear on everything that they feel and there's no way I could have a frame of reference for that level of pain. I really feel intimidated and scared that I'm going to say the wrong thing and cause them more pain but so far so good. I just try to avoid the cliche stuff that I've read nobody appreciates.

I don't know if it's possible for someone without AS to walk a zig-zag mile in AS shoes. I think it's a miracle that my husband understands that I'm not lazy. I got so much crap from people over the years for forgetting things and being distracted. If you forget to eat, nobody notices but if you forget to do the dishes, suddenly you're lazy. So, the only thing we can do is continue to be as open as possible to other people and hope that they will return the favor.

quote]Sympathizing is putting yourself in someone else's place, imagining how you'd feel or remembering how you felt in a similar situation.
Empathizing is imagining how someone else feels and having an emotional response to that. [/quote]

That is part of the reason I posted the message. If NTs and Aspies react so differently it means to me that I have not experienced the same feelings as a NT. Which then means that I can't possibly empathize with them.

I just wanted to discuss this because I was thinking about some of the reasons I don't "work and play with others". Before I came to this conclusion I thought I easily could understand how someone else feels, and I would let them know what I thought they were feeling. So many times I was told that I was wrong. I just took that to mean that most people have an ego that wouldn't allow to say that someone bothered them. Now I am looking back at it thinking the only thing I accomplished was just making myself appear stranger than if I had only kept my mouth shut.

I thought I was being friendly.

irene

P. S. Thanks everyone for writing.

I have a really hard time getting my head around it myself. Being able to know how someone feels without them explicitly stating it seems like as plausible a task as reading the future in some chicken bones. I always try to be nice and help someone and just end up offending them in some way, and I don't understand it at all because I wouldn't be offended if I were them. I feel like all I can know is how I would feel in a situation. I can't understand how it's really possible to know how someone else would feel. And honestly, I don't even understand how I feel most of the time, let alone someone else.

I think learning a language would be easier too.

Thank you very much, Zen. That was exactly my point. Recently I sent a message to a friend letting her know that "I single handedly destroyed our friendship". From what she wrote it seems as though she found the message to be upsetting. I read it over at least twice and couldn't find anything that could possibly bother her. That was because I didn't have a clue what her feelings were abut our friendship.

Language is not an easy thing for me. When reading I see words that I understand but would never use myself especially when I speak to someone. When I write I can spend more time thinking about what I want to convey so it's a little bit easier. But not much. People get annoyed with me because it takes me so long to "get the words out of my mouth".

Now all I have to do is decide how I want to go on from here. Do I want to stop completely trying to understand how someone else feels, or continue to try.

irene

I can have empathy just normal, with animals, my children and wife.
But I can't give a bullcrap for other people.

I do not lack empathy I have to much empathy. I do not know how to act on feelings.

I used to be over-emphatic, even the slightest upset to someone else would be heart wrenching to me. Now I only empathise with people I'm attracted to, damn reciprocal altruism in all its cold, selected cynicism!

ryan93 [/quote]I used to be over-emphatic, even the slightest upset to someone else would be heart wrenching to me. Now I only empathise with people I'm attracted to, damn reciprocal altruism in all its cold, selected cynicism![/quote]

mesona [/quote] I do not lack empathy I have to much empathy. I do not know how to act on feelings[/quote]

I understand what you are saying. However, my point is that could it be true that we are actually not experiencing the same feelings as the other person. In fact the emotions, feelings that we are experiencing when we see someone who we believe is upset is actually our own, not theirs. Remember that no one can really read someone else's thoughts.

How about if we use this story as an example to my theory: I work in a kitchen with a couple of people who do not know how to cook. The meal that they prepared is horrible and I let them know my opinion. He/she then has this blank look on his/her face and looks a bit sad. So I apologize thinking I must have upset them. Then I find out that it had absolutely nothing to do with my comment. The problem is that the person just realized they lost their wallet.

Don't you find that NTs usually do not get as upset over problems as we do. Most of them can adapt to most situations. I know I can't, can you? Now that I said that do you believe that any NT could possibly be empathetic to one of us? I doubt it.

This is a very good definition of the word "empathetic" Empathy: is commonly defined as one's ability to recognize, perceive and feel directly the emotion of another.
Heinz Kohut said that "empathy is the capacity to think and feel oneself into the inner life of another person."

I think that we are actually experiencing when we think we are being empathetic is the feelings that we would have for ourselves under those circumstances. It is not those feelings that the other person is experiencing. Some people are very good at not allowing small problems to annoy them. Wish I could do that. What we are calling empathy is probably just people being overly sensitive to the point where someone else's experiences can upset us.

Please tell me if you understand this point. Thanks.

irene

irene

Yeah, I understand. That's kind of a bummer, actually. I always figured empathy was having a genuine emotional reaction on the behalf of someone else. But I don't really understand their problems, so it can't be called "empathy". It makes me feel like one of the robots from "do androids dream of electric sheep"

By that definition, I do lack empathy. I really havn't got a clue how people feel, and when I feel sympathetic for them the emotion is misplaced. Things that I feel sorry for them for are inconsequential, but I don't "feel" sorry for them for the big stuff, like breakups or family deaths, even though intellectually I know they are terrible things for people to go through.

I guess I can empathise very occasionally though, there are one or two people in the world who I do understand, to the degree I could trace out their mental conflicts and motives. Is that what empathy is???

For me empathy has been a hard 1. Ive always felt like I had that gap in me with an underdeveloped empathy. Within the last few years, I do have an empathetic side. I sometimes really care about certain types of people and I want everything to be ok with them. Now I will feel empathetic in my head, but showing this is a difficult task for me. I can genuinely care about someone, but I cant show it for s**t.

A study done in 2007 by Henry and Kamila Markam makes the case that individuals with Autism may experience something called "Intense World Syndrome," where instead of lacking empathy, they actually have too much empathy. They also propose that instead of being incapable of feeling empathy, many individuals with AS disorders may actually be hyper-sensitive to the emotions of others and are often forced withdraw or shut down because the amount of information they are receiving is too overwhelming.

I have often felt like I feel way more of the world than others do. When someone cuts their finger, I feel it. In order for me to maintain my focus on the world around me I must shut it out. Otherwise, I will turn into an incoherent, babbling mess.

I feel a lot of empathy for my fellow human beings.

I guess that is very true. My brother is a classic autist (and deaf) and when I was little I always felt a little different from other people but I never thought I could actually be different. It was not until I was in my 30s the "I DON"T UNDERSTAND PEOPLE"-feeling got that severe that I started looking into autism again. Still didn't recognize myself, until I read about ADHD. Since that day I now KNOW why I don't understand people. And since a while I realize that my empathy, which can be very strong, won't take me anywhere with NT people, just because I have no clue about how they think and feel.

So now I am studying NT, and I guess one day I might be able to empathize with them. It's funny: people sometimes ask me if I understand myself better now that I know about my ADHD (or they asume I do). I tell them I have always known myself, but now I am finally learning about others. I guess that is the thing: if you don't know that you are different, or you do know but not to which extend, how on earth would you be able to empathize, or even fit in when you want to?

NT people, if you ask me, have hardly any feelings. Then are incapable of being both mad and happy, and they are insensitive. Even when I am on Ritalin I have the feeling my emotions are at least 10 times stronger then theirs are, and I pick up on things 10 times faster. I guess that is why they will never be able to truly empathize with ús...