Hard work faking a shallow persona?
Ilka
Veteran
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Joined: 7 May 2011
Age: 52
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,365
Location: Panama City, Republic of Panama
My first question would be: do you feel or have ever felt comfortable hanging out with other people? If the answer is yes, then you shold take some distance from thses "friends". If the answer is no, then you probably have not developed any close friendship. We usually cannot just be "ourselves" around other people, unless we have developed a strong/trusting relationship, and that takes time. I have several friends (4 to be exact), but I only feel completely comfortable with one of them. The other three still need work.
Yes.
Nah. They're good people. It's nice to have someone to hang out with, but it's like I almost feel like I don't deserve them. They're normal, they have good jobs, their own place, lots of other friends, and I just feel this weird pressure inside me when I'm around them sometimes. I know you should feel totally at east with your friends, but lets be real, it's not like most aspies have a wide social circle to select from. I'm grateful for the company, but deep down it's simultaneously draining.
I have to take issue with the initial proposition that all friendship involves faking to impress shallow people.
First, it presupposes that aspies are deep. I'll save you the trouble: they aren't any deeper than anyone else. Read the endless "I can't get a girlfriend" threads. Few of those are the products of deep insight.
Second, it presupposes that NTs aren't deep. That requires ignoring huge swathes of human achievement.
Frankly, I think you're not defining the depth of human experience with any degree of real world experience when you presuppose that you must fake a persona to impress shallow people. That or you are surrounded by the largest pool of malignant narcissists on the planet. In which case, you should stop working in the financial industry.
Aspies tend to not give humanity a fair shake. Start taking an interest in other people. Start taking an interest in what turns them on, even if you don't understand it. The human race -- even the NTs -- is waiting to surprise you. But, you have to stop trying to impress them and start just listening to what does excite them.
A good way to think of it is the old rule that travelers are taught about going to France.
The rule with the French is that you must attempt to speak some French if you wish to have a friendly interaction. They demand a "bonsoir". They respect a "Quelles bieres avez-vouz?" They understand when you breakdown completely and just blurt out what will become your most rehearsed French phrase: "Pardon. Je parle un petit peut de francais. Parlez-vouz anglais?"
If you jump right to "Parlez-vouz anglais?" without even attempting the rest of the effort, the French will f*****g hate you. Or worse, if you don't even do that and instead just say "Do you speak English?", at which point you might as well just scream "Speak English, y'all motherf***ers, cause I needs me some MCDonald's up in this b***h!"
Most human beings respect the effort to relate. But, it also requires the desire to relate. It requires an interest in trying to fit in and a willingness to fail, repeatedly and brutally, at new things.
You have to go into their world on their terms. And it;s not about faking it. It's about taking an interest in them and making an effort to see their humanity as they express it through their desires, their wants and their interests.
Is it really healthy to be around people who you constantly have to put on a fake persona around?
And aren't friends those people who you can act like yourself around?
_________________
Music Theory 101: Cadences.
Authentic cadence: V-I
Plagal cadence: IV-I
Deceptive cadence: V- ANYTHING BUT I ! !! !
Beethoven cadence: V-I-V-I-V-V-V-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I
-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I! I! I! I I I
I some ways, no. But it's good practice, and the benefits outweigh being alone. And when you don't have that many friends, and the god's truth is, I do NOT....
Lets come back to what we were told growing up, that you should just be yourself. Did it work? Maybe for you, not for me. I've long since learned I have to follow social niceties, and hide myself at least a little if I'm going to survive. I'm used to it. So what if I can't fully be ME in the company of some of my friends? I mean, it's not a perfect world. I still say being around people has emotional benefits, so long as they're nice. And it can feel like work. But that's my take on it.
I some ways, no. But it's good practice, and the benefits outweigh being alone. And when you don't have that many friends, and the god's truth is, I do NOT....
What do you find those benefits to be? I can think of a few advantages of my (very) limited social life.
Lets come back to what we were told growing up, that you should just be yourself. Did it work? Maybe for you, not for me. I've long since learned I have to follow social niceties, and hide myself at least a little if I'm going to survive. I'm used to it. So what if I can't fully be ME in the company of some of my friends? I mean, it's not a perfect world. I still say being around people has emotional benefits, so long as they're nice. And it can feel like work. But that's my take on it.
But your OP didn't mention simple things such as "following social niceties". Your wording was "a shallow persona". There's a difference between faking an entire persona and, for example, remembering to ask how people are when you see them.
Then why complain about it if it isn't really a problem?
And aren't friends those people who you can act like yourself around?
Keepin it real, yo. Doesn't work.
Speak for yourself.
I'd rather have no friends than adopt a fake persona. If I did that to make friends, I wouldn't consider them friends anyway. They'd like my persona, not me.
_________________
Music Theory 101: Cadences.
Authentic cadence: V-I
Plagal cadence: IV-I
Deceptive cadence: V- ANYTHING BUT I ! !! !
Beethoven cadence: V-I-V-I-V-V-V-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I
-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I! I! I! I I I
kopetski
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
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Joined: 3 Jul 2011
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 62
Location: Flanders, Belgium
I have categories of people for several gaps to fill in my life:
1) people for physical company when I don't want to go someplace alone, or to prove that I do have people that want to spend time with me
2) people I can connect with on emotional and intellectual and all other levels and that understand me and still accept of even appreciate me for who I am.
Sometimes you can have BOTH in 1 person. But it doesn't happen very often.
I only have 1 person that I know in real life and that I can tell 'some' things to about my internal life. The other 2 real people don't know a lot about what is really going on inside. My mum doesn't know what I think about most of the time. She doesn't know about aspergers, my depression, my thoughts..
The thing is found out through the years is that you have to try and tell them what things matter to you, and what is going on in your head. If you do it little by little, you can observe their reaction to it. Do they completely ignore it or have a negative reaction ? Then they are not really happy with who you really are; I suggest you look for other people. Some do appreciate hearing you have deeper thoughts or that you are not always happy with life, and will open up to you too.
It's not a huge problem, but it does kinda get to me. It's the price I pay for company sometimes. Look buddy, I'm just expressing myself, so would you please knock it off with the cross examination bullcrap?
I am sorry if it came across as cross examination. I was just trying to understand your point of view. I'm sorry if having your opinions questioned is so troubling to you.
_________________
Music Theory 101: Cadences.
Authentic cadence: V-I
Plagal cadence: IV-I
Deceptive cadence: V- ANYTHING BUT I ! !! !
Beethoven cadence: V-I-V-I-V-V-V-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I
-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I! I! I! I I I
It's not a huge problem, but it does kinda get to me. It's the price I pay for company sometimes. Look buddy, I'm just expressing myself, so would you please knock it off with the cross examination bullcrap?
I am sorry if it came across as cross examination. I was just trying to understand your point of view. I'm sorry if having your opinions questioned is so troubling to you.
No, what you're doing is nitpicking, which I doubt anybody likes. I have some friends that I can't fully be myself with, and I sometimes find it draining. If you can't relate, whatever, I don't owe you an explanation why I brought it up,
Hey, don't hide a patronizing remark behind an apology. That's grade school.
1) people for physical company when I don't want to go someplace alone, or to prove that I do have people that want to spend time with me
2) people I can connect with on emotional and intellectual and all other levels and that understand me and still accept of even appreciate me for who I am.
Sometimes you can have BOTH in 1 person. But it doesn't happen very often.
I only have 1 person that I know in real life and that I can tell 'some' things to about my internal life. The other 2 real people don't know a lot about what is really going on inside. My mum doesn't know what I think about most of the time. She doesn't know about aspergers, my depression, my thoughts..
The thing is found out through the years is that you have to try and tell them what things matter to you, and what is going on in your head. If you do it little by little, you can observe their reaction to it. Do they completely ignore it or have a negative reaction ? Then they are not really happy with who you really are; I suggest you look for other people. Some do appreciate hearing you have deeper thoughts or that you are not always happy with life, and will open up to you too.
That's probably what I ought to do, but I'm kinda conflicted. I've had friend I was comfortable around, but a lot of them had issues. They were verbally abusive too. It seems either they're people who are deep thinkers, but have suppressed anger and it comes out inappropriately, or they're typical, chill guys, but a little too normal (boring) for my taste, yet I still take up their offer to do stuff, because it's hard to make friends out of acquaintances, and I don't wanna pass of up nice people just because they're not deep enough, or there isn't "something there" where I know I can get serious and intellectual.
But isn't that basically what you said, kopetski?
People act different for a variety of different situations. There's nothing "fake" about that.
You wouldn't go to a church and make sport of swearing just because you feel it's more important to be "authentic". Whatever "authentic" that even is.
I'm a land mammal. So the next time I'm in ten feet of water I should refuse to tread water or swim, because it just wouldn't be authentic, right? No. Different situations come with different requirements.
It's not a huge problem, but it does kinda get to me. It's the price I pay for company sometimes. Look buddy, I'm just expressing myself, so would you please knock it off with the cross examination bullcrap?
I am sorry if it came across as cross examination. I was just trying to understand your point of view. I'm sorry if having your opinions questioned is so troubling to you.
No, what you're doing is nitpicking, which I doubt anybody likes. I have some friends that I can't fully be myself with, and I sometimes find it draining. If you can't relate, whatever, I don't owe you an explanation why I brought it up,
Hey, don't hide a patronizing remark behind an apology. That's grade school.
...
Actually, what you are doing is misinterpreting. I was actually trying to understand your point of view rather than just say "That's stupid, you shouldn't be so desperate for friends", but you immediately jumped onto the defensive. In the world that I inhabit, asking questions to try to understand is normal behaviour.
If you'd only wanted commiseration and agreement you should've said so.
Oh, and my first apology was genuine, but you won't believe that, since you're determined to believe that I'm trying to upset you.
_________________
Music Theory 101: Cadences.
Authentic cadence: V-I
Plagal cadence: IV-I
Deceptive cadence: V- ANYTHING BUT I ! !! !
Beethoven cadence: V-I-V-I-V-V-V-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I
-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I! I! I! I I I
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