Coping with Frustrations Dealing with NTs

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I wasn't sure whether to post this here or in the general section. I'm going to talk about a specific issue, but my concern isn't the specific issue; it's just an example. My concern is...well, I'll get to that.

I've been working hard the last few months trying to play by NT rules, not offend people unnecessarily, etc. Today I'm tired, and when I'm tired, my filter stops working. The following happened:

Some people at work were calling Christina Aguilera stupid for messing up the national anthem. I said that it's stupid to make fun of her for that (careful to say that what they were doing was stupid, not the people themselves) because she's human, and sometimes humans make mistakes. Their argument is that she is a professional. I said, "So are you, and surely you make mistakes." (I did my best to have a mild, non-aggressive tone, but I do have problems making my voice sound the way I want it to.) They haven't spoken to me since, and normally we joke around all day.

Now, as I mentioned, I don't really care what my coworkers' opinion of Christina Aguilera is. My problem is the total lack of logic--which often results in inaccurate, hurtful judgement of others--that NTs often display. (I know Ms. Aguilera isn't particularly hurt by the opinions of a bunch of no-name scientists. It's just an example.)

There are multiple times a day when NTs say things that are obviously seriously lacking in logic, and I feel like even when those things are minor, that type of thinking is dangerous, in that it can cause unnecessary hurt or even worse if it's applied to more important topics.

So I can keep my mouth shut most of the time, because the specific instances are minor. But it feels like I'm having to hide my true feelings--which feels like lying--just to keep the peace. And that feels wrong to me, even though I wouldn't judge anyone else for doing the same thing in the same situation.

How do you justify not correcting the type of thinking that Aspie's can see is illogical at best? I feel very lonely bottling it all up.

Don't be so hard on yourself. It sounds like you are trying hard to get along which is not always easy for anyone, even NTs. Everyone offends people occasionally. Keep being nice and not offending people when you can. This is not always easy for anyone, even NTs,. It is necessary though if you want to work and pay bills. They will come back around because they have to because you work together everyday.

Let it blow over for a day or two and then see how things are. Maybe you could try making an offending joke about Christina Aguilera as a peace offering. Like you said, she probably wont care. There will always be some controversy between people at work, it sucks, but that's how it works.

I have that problem to, of arguing things that don't matter all the time, and occasionally it offends people. It happens.

But...that's not my point. My point is that the way they think does matter, even if that specific topic doesn't. That same sort of illogical thinking can lead to all kinds of problems. So I can ignore this thing, but where do I draw the line? And how do I keep from feeling like I'm being a phony.

I mean, let's take a similar problem I had a few years ago. My friends and I went to go see this comedian who turned out to be utterly racist. I couldn't believe how offensive he was. I'd ridden with them, so I couldn't leave, but I did go wait in the lobby. After the show, I found out that they didn't see the problem, they thought I was overreacting, because "they're just jokes." They honestly couldn't see how accepting racist jokes can eventually lead to general acceptance of more racism.

I don't know how else to put it. Little things aren't always little, or at least they have the potential to get big, but if I point that out, I'm making people dislike me. If I don't, I'm being a phony, and I dislike myself.

Maybe it doesn't have anything to do with Asperger's and logic; maybe I'm just crazy.

I know how you feel justthisgirl.

Sometimes I feel the same way around my family. NTs often participate in "Groupthink" (I'm not saying ALL, I'm saying OFTEN). You think differently than most people and that's not a bad thing. However, try turn the tables. The Christina Aguilera situation -- I understand your point of view and you had the right to stand up for what you truly thought. Your co-workers likely thought that you made a big deal out of their small-talk, an action they may have been unable to comprehend. As for the racist-jokes, I understand both sides' point of view. You felt what the comedian said was wrong and did not want to tolerate it due to racism -- that's perfectly understandable. Your friends/whoever, though, may hold different standards. They may view racist jokes and general racism differently. You draw the line at "No racist jokes, comments, actions, ect", they may draw it at "Light-hearted comedy is fine, just don't go too far". It's okay to have different opinions, that's just how life works.

You don't have to pretend for anybody. I used to laugh at those supposed little things and I struggle now, although I'm improving because I know how wrong it is. I get offended when my brother/cousins say "That's ret*d" or "That's so gay" and I want to say something, but I feel that I can't sometimes because he'll/they'll make a similar remark about me. It's frustrating, I know.

I know exactly how you feel, even though the scores of similar examples I have currently escape me.

Really, what can you do? Damned if you do and damned if you don't, am I right?

But realize this. Nothing you can say will change their outlook on the topic when you are in that situation. Especially if you are outnumbered. That may sound defeatist, but hear me out. Individuals can be rational. But groups are not. If you are the odd one out in any situation, you will be singled out as being irrational even if it's not the case. The group logic always wins out. For them, at least.

It's even worse when it's a perceived issue of moral or intellectual superiority. People will have a knee-jerk reaction of "Whoa, where do you get off thinking that you're better than us?" Even if they don't say it outright, you know that's what's going on in their heads.

So what can you do? Let it go. At least in that situation. In general, I've found that the only time you can reason with people rationally is in a one-on-one conversation. They are more receptive to what you have to say and more willing to accept a new idea when their already-established opinions are not being bolstered by the people around them.

And the reverse is true as well. You could be wrong. But in a situation where the group is against you, it's difficult to admit it, especially if you come to that realization after a long discussion/argument. Maybe out of pride; maybe out of embarrassment; maybe out of martyrdom.

Long story short, I bite my tongue. You justify it by knowing that your efforts are better spent elsewhere, or at a different time.

This is just my opinion and I could be wrong. I may have a theory here. You said " I said that it's stupid to make fun of her for that (careful to say that what they were doing was stupid, not the people themselves) because she's human, and sometimes humans make mistakes.

First, what you said here consists of both an opinion and some facts. The facts are:
a. Her name is Christina Aguilera
b. She is a female
c. She is a singer and a professional.
d. She is human
e. Sometimes humans make mistakes

Your opinion was it you felt it was stupid to make fun of her for some of these things. I believe where the problem lies is that you tried to state your opinion as if it was a fact and I bet(I could be wrong) they felt you were trying to shove your opinion down their throats.

Here are the definitions of a fact and an opinion. http://mrsdell.org/gr2/factopinion.html

I think that may be a part of what's going on with some of us with aspergers. I think some of us have difficulty telling facts from opinions and we try to think of our opinions as if they are facts.

This is what I would have said. I would have said that this is my opinion. I would have said to them and I quote " I believe we as human beings make mistakes from time to time even professionals." Even if something is a fact sometimes you have to state it as an opinion like I just did. I know, it's very strange huh?



Honestly, you can't use logic on things like a person is beautiful or stupid. That is your subjective opinion. On the other hand, if Christina Aguilera took an IQ test and scored below 65 and the category name was called "stupid" then it would be a fact to say that she took an IQ test and scored below 65 and there is a category named called stupid on the IQ test. Do you understand where I am logically coming from myself?



More than likely they may have been stating their subjective opinions. Sometimes NTs and even we Aspies can state facts that are wrong.



Try to think through what I have said and see if you can get a better perspective.