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minervx
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20 Sep 2011, 10:19 am

Here is social advice that personally does not resonate with me:

1. "You are fine just the way you are".

This kind of advice tends to hurt. One, you can tell the person was being polite rather than honest. Two, its not going to better you in any way, being told what you would like to hear rather than what you need to hear. Three, it is very confusing especially when you know you have problems but want to know which ones.

2. "Be yourself"

Very general and vague, and seems like a clone of the above. Though, I agree it is bad to be someone your not, I would at least change the phrase to "Be a better you".

3. Motivation

Such as compliments, flattery, phrases like "you are the most important thing to you" don't do any good. They make you feel good for one day, but don't get you any better.

3. Vague cliche one-liners

Such as "go with the flow" or "don't be so uptight". While the statements in themselves may be true, there needs to be more depth to them, explaining how to actually implement these catchy one liners in conversation.

My view: when people give social advice, they should not use generic one liners, but give a deep explanation that provides specific details on how to improve and reasoning.



minervx
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20 Sep 2011, 10:32 am

For example:

Bad Social Advice:
Lighten up! You're so tense all the time. Just chill out.

Good Social Advice:
I had noticed when you were talking to this person, you said ___, in such a stiff manner it seemed like it was life or death. I felt the other person had the impression that you were too cautious or anxious; I would certainly feel this way if someone had talked to me like that. You notice how the other person ____ in response to what you did?

And then that could lead to the person explaining why they did that, and then work to a solution of that problem.



anneurysm
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20 Sep 2011, 11:04 am

I agree strongly with all your above points...those types of things don't really work well with most people on the spectrum for that matter, because they are less likely to be internalized and believed, and they are also way too vague.

Social advice has to be as concrete as possible. People on the spectrum aren't the best at reading between the lines, or knowing how the little things they do create an overall impression on other people.

If one person with AS is told they need to "chill out" and "relax"...the person will wonder...how exactly does one appear this way? Your description of what to say is *perfect* in that it is very specific. Oh, if only everyone broke down things that way...it would have saved me a lot of frustration as a kid.

Non-spectrum people find it hard to be concrete because they are unsure of how to break down what the person is doing 'wrong'...they just see the overall expression (resembing tension) and how the person is making them feel (uncomfortable). They are also afraid that the person will take things personally.

Being concrete, though, is the best way to approach people on the spectrum with these things, because it is how they learn them.


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Given a “tentative” diagnosis as a child as I needed services at school for what was later correctly discovered to be a major anxiety disorder.

This misdiagnosis caused me significant stress, which lessened upon finding out the truth about myself from my current and past long-term therapists - that I am an anxious and highly sensitive person but do not have an autism spectrum disorder.

My diagnoses - social anxiety disorder and obsessive-compulsive disorder.

I’m no longer involved with the ASD world.


d057
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23 Sep 2011, 7:34 pm

anneurysm wrote:
I agree strongly with all your above points...those types of things don't really work well with most people on the spectrum for that matter, because they are less likely to be internalized and believed, and they are also way too vague.

Social advice has to be as concrete as possible. People on the spectrum aren't the best at reading between the lines, or knowing how the little things they do create an overall impression on other people.

If one person with AS is told they need to "chill out" and "relax"...the person will wonder...how exactly does one appear this way? Your description of what to say is *perfect* in that it is very specific. Oh, if only everyone broke down things that way...it would have saved me a lot of frustration as a kid.

Non-spectrum people find it hard to be concrete because they are unsure of how to break down what the person is doing 'wrong'...they just see the overall expression (resembing tension) and how the person is making them feel (uncomfortable). They are also afraid that the person will take things personally.

Being concrete, though, is the best way to approach people on the spectrum with these things, because it is how they learn them.


One piece of "advice" that I absolutely hate is people telling me that I "need to talk more." In high school my teachers would say that all the time, when I felt as if I had nothing in common with any of my peers. What is there to talk about with them besides sports, relationships, and gossip about other people? I'm in college now, and I find it somewhat easier to start a conversation with people because they have similar interests.


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icyfire4w5
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24 Sep 2011, 2:38 am

To minervx: Yeah, I agree with every word you posted. I once blogged that those people who tell me to "just be yourself" turn out to be the ones who keep complaining/gossiping about me.

To d057: Yeah, teachers used to tell me to stop alienating my peers, socialize more with them, smile more... Dear teachers, these peers had been bullying me or ignoring everything I said! How to socialize?!



Ai_Ling
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24 Sep 2011, 8:36 pm

Totally agree, NTs tend to give aspies bad social advice. Its just generic social advice they give each other. Its another social ritual. When someone feels down, give them generic overused lines to make them feel better even if you dont mean it.

minervx wrote:
Here is social advice that personally does not resonate with me:
1. "You are fine just the way you are".


Yeah I've had people tell me that and then they wanted me to change and they later accused me of being stubborn and narrow minded. On a lesser degree, friends tell me that one day and get mad at me the next day because I was just being me.

Quote:
2. "Be yourself"


This line should not be told to aspies unless the person truely means it. Often times, people just want you to come out of your shell but when you do, you reveal your unpleasant aspie selves and the person doesnt like it. We should rephrase this to, be NT. Thats what NTs really mean, be an expressant NT.

Quote:
3. Vague cliche one-liners
Such as "go with the flow" or "don't be so uptight". While the statements in themselves may be true, there needs to be more depth to them, explaining how to actually implement these catchy one liners in conversation.


I dont believe aspies are wired to "go with the flow". Us going with the flow, involves just going off into our own world and being antisocial.

Quote:
My view: when people give social advice, they should not use generic one liners, but give a deep explanation that provides specific details on how to improve and reasoning.


NTs dont like doing that. All the generic advice is given as a social ritual. When NTs comfort, the words that come out arent really suppose to mean anything. Its them showing their support and comfort is what counts. When they give details, they actually put thought about what their saying. All the one liners and mindless comments.



anneurysm
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24 Sep 2011, 9:37 pm

d057 wrote:
anneurysm wrote:
I agree strongly with all your above points...those types of things don't really work well with most people on the spectrum for that matter, because they are less likely to be internalized and believed, and they are also way too vague.

Social advice has to be as concrete as possible. People on the spectrum aren't the best at reading between the lines, or knowing how the little things they do create an overall impression on other people.

If one person with AS is told they need to "chill out" and "relax"...the person will wonder...how exactly does one appear this way? Your description of what to say is *perfect* in that it is very specific. Oh, if only everyone broke down things that way...it would have saved me a lot of frustration as a kid.

Non-spectrum people find it hard to be concrete because they are unsure of how to break down what the person is doing 'wrong'...they just see the overall expression (resembing tension) and how the person is making them feel (uncomfortable). They are also afraid that the person will take things personally.

Being concrete, though, is the best way to approach people on the spectrum with these things, because it is how they learn them.


One piece of "advice" that I absolutely hate is people telling me that I "need to talk more." In high school my teachers would say that all the time, when I felt as if I had nothing in common with any of my peers. What is there to talk about with them besides sports, relationships, and gossip about other people? I'm in college now, and I find it somewhat easier to start a conversation with people because they have similar interests.


I'm not surprised things are easier for you now :) As people get older and more likely to congregate around people with similar strengths and types of intelligence (i.e. a college environment) conversations become easier as you are more leiley to find common ground. Bottom line? It DOES get better.


_________________
Given a “tentative” diagnosis as a child as I needed services at school for what was later correctly discovered to be a major anxiety disorder.

This misdiagnosis caused me significant stress, which lessened upon finding out the truth about myself from my current and past long-term therapists - that I am an anxious and highly sensitive person but do not have an autism spectrum disorder.

My diagnoses - social anxiety disorder and obsessive-compulsive disorder.

I’m no longer involved with the ASD world.


Ai_Ling
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24 Sep 2011, 11:54 pm

minervx wrote:
For example:

Bad Social Advice:
Lighten up! You're so tense all the time. Just chill out.

Good Social Advice:
I had noticed when you were talking to this person, you said ___, in such a stiff manner it seemed like it was life or death. I felt the other person had the impression that you were too cautious or anxious; I would certainly feel this way if someone had talked to me like that. You notice how the other person ____ in response to what you did?

And then that could lead to the person explaining why they did that, and then work to a solution of that problem.


Just a comment. The good social advice part. Most NTs would find it more like a dominating scolding and they dont find themselves in the position of authority to dish out that kinda advice. Most NTs on the recieving end, would probably hate it if someone told them that. It sounds more like something a psych would tell a client. At the most, a parent to a child or a teacher to a student. The bad social advice part is more friend to friend, casual situation comment.



KathySilverstein
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26 Sep 2011, 2:27 am

No, Aspies are definitely NOT wired for going with the flow!
I agree, getting advice like that always used to make me extremely angry.
It's like "Um ya just as soon as you tell me HOW to do that, maybe...."
but they never want to be any more specific than that.


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ialdabaoth
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26 Sep 2011, 1:35 pm

anneurysm wrote:
Being concrete, though, is the best way to approach people on the spectrum with these things, because it is how they learn them.


While it may be the most effective way to teach a non-NT what they're doing "wrong", that doesn't mean it's the best approach.

Problem one: It's exceptionally hard for an NT to be "concrete" about social norms.

Problem two: It's exceptionally hard for an NT to *want* to help someone who's violating social norms.

Problem three: Functionally, SOMEONE has to be at the bottom of the social hierarchy. If it's not you, it might be them.



Ai_Ling
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26 Sep 2011, 11:09 pm

You know I also have to mention. I hate it when psychs give you bad social advice.

Advice: Why dont you go find an activity of interest

Me: Well everytime I get involved in an activity, I have to worry about fitting in. I cant just go there and blend in.

What better social advice would be walking me through the steps of getting involved in the activity. Mind the fact that, Im referring to psychs not just friends or ordinary NTs. Psychs are suppose to give you good social advice and give you constructive critism in ways which you can accept and comprehend. I notice a lot of them dont give that.... :x



TemperedGlass
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27 Sep 2011, 8:00 am

Omg. I am SO happy to hear that I'm not the only one who doesn't feel 'comforted' by any of that!
I'm starting to get it across to my boyfriend what I need from him as far as communicating, but with most of the rest of the world, MY advice comes off to people as mean or controlling (??? No! It's honest and helpful!) and their advice is fake and condescending or vague and unhelpful.
The WORST is when people immediately around me are trying to 'coax me out of my shell' (ugh) when it's exactly them I can't handle at the moment!
I get that barking commands at me to RELAX HAVE FUN TALK etc is meant to be helpful, but it's sooooooooo not. x.x



minervx
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30 Sep 2011, 2:45 pm

I just googled the words "bad social advice" and "unhelpful social advice" and this thread comes up top.

Currently, I am working on a full length book, which I will sell online for $1 eventually when it is complete, which includes social advice on over a hundred different topics. That's why I haven't been posting here much. And this is one of the topics I am expanding deeper on.



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30 Sep 2011, 4:23 pm

TemperedGlass wrote:
The WORST is when people immediately around me are trying to 'coax me out of my shell' (ugh) when it's exactly them I can't handle at the moment!


See people want me to come out of my shell to. Dont get me wrong, its not that I dont wanna. Its more like me coming out of my shell has a huge warning sign to it. Theres been times, I've come out of my shell. Or I've been with friends who Im comfortable with along with some acquintances who havent seen the "out of my shell" side of me. I come out, I get unpleasant reactions. You dont want me to come out of my shell. You want me to put on an social act.



MingyJongo75
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03 Oct 2011, 5:18 pm

minervx wrote:
Here is social advice that personally does not resonate with me:

1. "You are fine just the way you are".

This kind of advice tends to hurt. One, you can tell the person was being polite rather than honest. Two, its not going to better you in any way, being told what you would like to hear rather than what you need to hear. Three, it is very confusing especially when you know you have problems but want to know which ones.

2. "Be yourself"

Very general and vague, and seems like a clone of the above. Though, I agree it is bad to be someone your not, I would at least change the phrase to "Be a better you".

3. Motivation

Such as compliments, flattery, phrases like "you are the most important thing to you" don't do any good. They make you feel good for one day, but don't get you any better.

3. Vague cliche one-liners

Such as "go with the flow" or "don't be so uptight". While the statements in themselves may be true, there needs to be more depth to them, explaining how to actually implement these catchy one liners in conversation.

My view: when people give social advice, they should not use generic one liners, but give a deep explanation that provides specific details on how to improve and reasoning.


I agree with all of this. From what you said, there's no way I cannot say that these pieces of advice are overrated and irritating. The only contrary statement I'd like to make, though, involves the motivation topic. It's not that I don't think certain motivational sayings are cheesy and ultimately useless; I just don't think their lack of quality is the reason why we feel sad again the next day. Human brains have a thing in them called the hedonic treadmill, which allows us to adapt and, eventually, return to our "status quo" mindset, which, unfortunately, includes good things that have happened in life. In order to really heal ourselves, we have to develop some kind of change of heart that will create a new status quo for our minds.



ialdabaoth
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03 Oct 2011, 10:23 pm

So maybe good social advice could focus on describing the functional steps of the process of causing that "change of heart"?

Because all I ever hear about it are:

"You have to want to change."

"No one can change you but you."

"When you're ready for it, it'll just happen."

Which is great, except that then people get angry and upset when you don't change fast enough for them, and get really angry when you offer the "excuse" of "well, I guess I'm just not ready to change yet."

I've heard plenty of people say that "you have to hit rock-bottom" to change, but some people reach rock-bottom and sort of settle there, and we get really vitriolicly angry at those people. So what gives?