Social Norms: Examples in my textbook

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So Im taking a speech class and they had some social norms the differences when there explicitly stated and unstated norms.

Family

Rules (Explicit)
1) If you don't do chores, you don't get allowance
2) If you're going to be more then half and hour late, phone home so others don't worry about you.
3) Don't make plans for Sun nights, this is time for the family to spend together
4) Daniel gets to watch Sesame St from 5 to 6pm.

Norms (Unstated)
1) When Dad is in a bad mood, don't bring up problems.
2) Don't talk about Sheila's divorce.
3) As long as the kids don't get into trouble, the parents won't ask detailed questions about what they do with their friends.
4) At family gatherings, try to change the subject when Uncle Max brings up politics.

So it seems that the unstated "rules" in which aspies seem to miss are often very subjective and they vary from situation however many aspies have a hard time figuring out what these unstated norms are because they change and vary all the time. No wonder aspies are perceived as rude.

The grays had to be spelled out to me all the time growing up. I didn't realize rules were different everywhere else. But I figured out rules were different at school because they were spelled out to me. I got yelled at a few times for twisting on the swings so I got the hint it was not allowed at school, I learned i was not to throw barkdust down the slide because I kept getting yelled at for it, snowballs were not allowed to be thrown because the duty ladies and the school principal said so. Then when I was new to my new school, I learned they had the same rules for twisting on swing sets and throwing snow balls.

Yeah it is all confusing. I called my aunt and uncle cheap because my dad uses that word all the time and calls me cheap and my mother has called me a cheapskate and has called herself cheap because she is frugal. I used a word that has been said to me and I used it how it's used and let's say that didn't go well with my aunt. I will never use that word again except for on myself. I sure will not take that risk. But using that word on items is okay, just don't use it on people. I also learned from my husband when buying gifts for people, never say the item was cheap. In fact he told me you don't ever mention anything about costs when giving gifts. I just memorize the rules for each situation. I assume that is what they called rote memory or learning things by rote.

Last edited by League_Girl on 29 Nov 2011, 5:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

It does get confusing (different "rules" for different situations - and different people[i] situations).

As a "rule" - I usually keep myself to safe subject when speaking to people I don't know very well or who aren't that close to me. By "safe subjects" I mean that I avoid politics, religion or any controversial subject (abortion, assisted suicide, stem cell research, immigration, for example). An exception to this rule would be attendance at an event specifically about one of these (e.g. it would be okay to talk about religion at a church event or okay to talk positively about right wing politics at a Tea Party rally or left wing politics at a rally supporting left wing causes). Otherwise, I remain neutral when these subjects arise, or I change the subject.

Then there are individuals within situations I wouldn't talk about dieting or weight loss around someone who I know is struggling with weight issues or has an eating disorder. I wouldnt' talk about all my latest vacations/high end purchases with someone who I know is struggling financially. I wouldn't bring up the war when talking to an older German person (I'm thinking about Fawlty Towers Hee Hee).

Also, sometimes I have to alter my communication with individuals depending on the circumstance. If a family member has been drinking alcohol and maybe is starting to have "one too many" - I either don't engage in conversation and keep my answers to the inebriated persons questions/comments brief and very neutral (or better yet, I disengage from conversation or even leave). If someone has just gone through an relationship breakup - I wouldn't talk about my budding romance or happy marriage (whatever the case my be). If someone is suffering severe loss (death, job loss, loss of home, severe illness/disability) - I would also need to really be careful about communicating sensitively and avoid subjects which might cause someone distress.

Anyway, the point is - there many, many layers to social communication - it is very hard to understand the nuances. Even NT's sometimes say the wrong thing - it is harder for those on the spectrum or with traits.

BTW - check out the thread regarding social rules which people add to all the time - it is a cummulation of "rules" which people at WP add to. I found it interesting and helpful.

I love being Frugal! It was a special interest for a while. Look at HillbillyHousewife and TightwasGazette online. There are a lot of things there, HH has a menu plan for families to feed your entire family for under 90 a week. Recipes, grocery lists, the whole works! I had to learn not to tell people how much their gifts cost too. For me, it would make it extra good if the person buying my gift got a good sale or find on it, but other people don't like that. I would want to know where and how and be excited for them. They don't want to know that. To me, it would be like both of us getting a gift, but it seems that the more I spend on a gift for someone else, the more I care about them. Which can be really uncomfortable if I give an expensive gift to someone is an acquaintence and I'm not able to explain that I got it cheaply. Apparantly you are supposed to explain that someone gave you the diamond earrings and at the time you don't have pierced ears before you pass them off to your boss for Christmas. That was an uncomfortable moment.

I don't understand why a lot of people wont talk about their feelings etc. The world would be a better place if people said how they feel about something, then we could all talk about it and get things resolved instead of there being all this underlying stuff that we can't bring up. An example would be Sheilas divorce from the OP's post. I'd go up to her and say "I didn't like him anyway!" and probably go on to talk about the things I didn't like about him. Why wouldn't that make her feel better? It affirms that she is more like than he is.

Frances

Oh yeah I do go to that thread frequently and I have posted in that thread very frequently. That is what lead me to accumulating long lists of rules in my head. Every social situation I've been in, I can breakdown into some kinda list of rules. I was saying that these unwritten norms are more subjective then I had previously thought. Its just something that NTs figure out because they have the flexibility and TOM to see whats going on. They vary from person to person and they vary based on the way a person reacts.

I notice however, people often don't figure out the "rules" with me. Its best not to say or do certain things and its not the same things that works for most people. I think most aspies are like that. Not to say that I haven't figured out some rules with some people, I don't always figure out the rules with people.

Where is the test that gives you the score for your online thing? I've seen that on a lot of people's signature. I want to take that test and see what the internet says I am. I took a few tests and talked a lot when I got my diagnosis. But I want to take that one.

Also, I'm on my nephews laptop and the keyboard is messed up somewhat. If I miss a letter or the space bar leaves out a space, it's not me, it's this keyboard. I try to look over the post before I send it here, but sometimes I may miss something.

Frances

Back to your comment about unstated norms. The friend who I spoke of on the "What to do when my friends are asleep" thread has actually said to me that she is "slu*ty". Now, she said it first, I did not! Apparantly that does not open up the door for me to make reference to her abandoness of who she sleeps with. In my mind, once she said it, it's out there and fair game. I was wrong.

One night she came over to borrow a belt and some shorts for an *80's skating party" she was going to. Yes, she is middle aged like me, but I am not sure she will admit that to herself. She had mentioned "I talked to Justin neighborboylastname and he's going to be there" I said "He's 19!" She said "Frances, I don't sleep with every boy I talk to!" Now, I know that she does do that because I hear about every one of them. I was going to be sarcastic and jokie with her. I said "Yeah, there's those tech support guys in India you have to call when you have a computer problem and neither one of you can afford the plane fare" I meant that to be funny. She did not take it that way.

She still borrowed the belt.

She got upset, but she is the one who told me herself that she was "slu*ty" and she has admitted "doing favors" for boys for cash. So I thought it was OK to say that. To this day, I do not understand how what I said was wrong.

Frances

Heres the super comprehensive one, http://www.rdos.net/eng/

Heres the AQ, Autism Quotient which is not as comprehensive but it still gives u a good idea of where you are on the spectrum: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html

I don't know if this will encourage you. I'm NT. At least, I think I am. BUT I'm an immigrant from Asia. When I first came to the States, I had to learn the exact same things!! It's East meets the West. A lot new things and cultural rules to learn. And I still don't fully understand why I can't say something I bought as a gift is cheap! I don't know if anyone's a fan of Seinfeld. I remember one time Jerry bought a gift for his dad and had to lie to his dad by telling him that it's really cheap. Because you see, otherwise his Jewish dad would be upset that he had spent so much on his gift! Well, here's something we Asians and Jews share. We take pride in getting cheap deals.

Another thing, why is it not polite to talk with a loud voice in public places, yet it's okay to be noisy at restaurants and bars??

Maybe not Wrong Planet, just Different Culture? And it really takes an effort to learn a new culture?

lol, my family is cheap, its an asian thing. Well if you buy a cheap gift, people think there not valued a whole lot, if you simply went cheap. You cant boast to your gift receivers on how you got a great deal on there gift even if that's what you were thinking when you bought it. Its an act of devaluing, cause the theory is if your family/friends mean enough to you, you will spend good $ on them. Why? not sure.... I personally think the fact that you put thought into getting your loved ones something is enough. You dont need to spend much on them.

I feel with immigrants, people automatically give them more slack. Where as if people know your raised in that country, they wont give you any slack. Sometimes I wonder if I were to just put on a Chinese accent, how much more slack would I get?

Your an asian immigrant, what country/race? Im asian too if you couldnt already tell from my screen name, not an immigrant, american born.



Oh yeah, Im sure it does. And about the loud voice in public place thing, I think its cause your voice is disturbing other people, it could be interrupting other peoples conversations. And its ok to be noisy in restaurants and bars, well its cause its an noisy environment, you being loud will simply blend in. Oddly enough I never had to think about that one.

I don't think you were wrong. BTW your sarcastic joke was hilarious!