Social functioning vs. social relating

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I have been reading Temple Grandin's book The Unwritten Rules of Social Relationships , and I thought the distinction she made between the two was interesting. I had always wondered why, since I don't look autistics, and my social skills are superior to those of some NT's, WHY I have a harder time making friends and forming relationships.

The idea is that my social functioning is not too bad, but maybe my social relating ability (the ability to form a bond with other people) is close to 0. I think there are many people on the spectrum and even some NT's who may have worse social functioning and better social relating than I do. In fact, there's a very socially screwed up aspie guy in my counseling group who seems to have at least some close friends (I do not). It's hard to understate how socially f****d up this guy is -- and sexist too, yet he has some good female friends whom he's known for a long time. The best I can do is a sort of "arms-length" friend who is halfway between a "friend" and an "acquaintance," and I don't even have many of those.

Is there a way to improve social relating as distinct from social functioning? Most helps and support for individuals on the spectrum is geared towards the latter and assumes they have at least some innate ability in the former. What if that part of one's brain is simply gone?

Here's my dating record: 6 relationships, all lasting a few weeks to a few months. Sexual partners: 17 (and all since age 22). This indicates someone who has a reasonably developed social functioning but a very poor social relating ability.

Also, I've tried too hard my whole life to "fit in" and be normal, so I don't have talents or expertise that I've developed, unlike many successful autistics, including Temple Grandin. I have, nevertheless, managed to cultivate politics as a special interest, but this is a very NT thing. So a lack of common interests might have something to do with an unusually deficient social relating ability.

Can you clarify the definition of social functioning? I'm trying to understand your post.

Social functioning refers to social skills and how you come across to other people. Do you say the appropriate thing? Can you read body language? Do you act normal and make people feel good about themselves? Social relating refers to the ability to form relationships. I feel like it's the "next level" after social functioning. But some people seem to be better at the latter than at the former.

Thats actually quite interesting, I am better at social relating then social functioning. It gets me sufficient amount of close friends but a rather small acquintance circle (in comparison to NTs). Ok Ill write more later, this topic interests me.

I met a middle-aged woman at my aspie meetup who is just like me. We both have a wide circle of acquaintances and get invited to parties and stuff but have no friends.

Strange indeed. I know social functioning is something that can be learned, but how about social relating?

Ok so in continuation for what I was saying earlier (I was in class). My social functioning skills suck and I worked very hard to get them better. When I was a 18, I had recent overcame a long spell of selective mutism, I went around haphazardly with poor social functioning skills (decent social relating) made a few friends, difficult time with acquintances and would oddly stick to mostly speaking to just a few people. I've been trying to eliminate that and make small talk with people but its still hard. Lets see, I have a hard time greeting people, I can read body language and act out bits and pieces of normal behavior for umm short periods of times in scripted interactions. But when you are around me for more then maybe half an hr, you'll notice I appear very quiet and anti-social. I do manage to make friends here and there and form close relationships however its often an all or nothing thing. However it makes a good screening process for friends, I dont get a lot of fake friends. If your my friend, you overcame my social surface oddities and still got to know me. And you probably find me a lot more pleasant on a closer basis then a surface basis. And when you see my oddities later on, theres not a lot surprises.

Man do I wish I was better at social functioning, it would make my life a lot easier. Then falling into strings of awkward workplace situations and being able to engage in social functions. You know I got my ass kicked out of volunteering opportunities and social activities because I cant socially engage with people on a surface basis without a friend with me...sheesh. Im sorry I wasnt born with this innate mechanism in my head. When I try to learn it, I have a very slow learning curve.

I feel like its more common, at least among NTs to have adequate social functioning but low social connecting abilities (so you got more in common w/NTs then I do) although I realize its probably isolating for you.

True social function can be learned although, when its learned, it can still come off as awkward, jerky and robotic. Its like your trying to furfill a slew of social checkmarks. As for social relating Im sure it can be learned, you probably need a psych who gets it to help you along.

W/ children its a lot easier to socially correct them. I use A.B.A Therapy and Floortime to some success but getting my clients out socializing and cueing them during interactions is what really works. Slowly they develop the skills and become more comfortable in social situations. I'll bet no one in your social circle is giving you cues and more than likely not correcting you. When you reach a certain age, people are not comfortable correcting you socially. Have you looked into finding someone who teaches social skills? W/ out knowing the particulars its hard to give recommendations. This may seem odd, but reading "how to win friends and influence people" is something I recommend you read. Have you seen "Crazy Stupid Love"? Ryan Gosling played a great role teaching Steve Carell how to interact socially. Maybe you need a buddy who can take you out and work on your skills, someone who can be a role model for you or seek a professional who teaches life skills, also, check out "How to win friends and influence people"

Yes. I go to a therapy group for CBT, and I have a semi-friend who has talked to me about social skills in the past. Also got feedback from another person that people thought I was "off" because of my voice and social anxiety. What I gathered from another friend and a therapist was that my main problem was flat affect -- which is something I've worked on fixing, pretty successfully. I also spent time in the military -- where people will call you out for every little thing. Then, it's here and there a little awkwardness, rough edges, but I really don't think there's much going on. I'm apparently very sensitive to negative body language, so I think I would pick up on things I did inappropriately by people's reactions, though there's no need to because I'm in situations where people will tell me. Things flow smoothly, and I get invited to parties and stuff. Just got invited to one for this coming weekend.

So I really think what you're describing is social functioning. Yes, I still have a lot of work to do, but there are people with social functioning at my level or much much worse who have a much superior ability to relate to others.

FYI -- I've never had trouble at work or in volunteer situations. And I am currently reading Dale Carnegie's materials.

I'm afraid there's simply an emotional component of my brain missing. People approach me and try to become friends, but I fail to reciprocate in essential ways. When it's someone I'm dating, obviously, I know that getting physical is a good way to "reciprocate" and develop a relationship; in fact, all my relationships that ever got off the ground got physical very very early for this reason. When it's not in this context, I have no roadmap whatsoever. I can crack a nice joke, but it's like I have little in common with anyone. So what's the basis for friendship? Seriously? People want me around because I'm interesting and much less anxious than before (thank you, mega doses of Vitamin D). But I still don't feel like I have any friends.

Actually, mine has gotten pretty smooth as a result of specific training by an outstanding acting teacher. I'm pretty happy with my progress.

But I still don't have a clue as to the emotional stuff. My social functioning still ranges from so-so to awful, but there are a lot of NT's and aspies like this, and many who are worse, who still have a far superior capacity to make friends than I do.

Hey, I got hired by Big 4 Accounting without having a relevant background. That was 7 in-office interviews. Those interviews are ALL about personality. So I can't be that bad in the way I come across. I'm not saying I'm great, but I know people who are worse--and can't get hired to save their lives and get gossipped about far more than me-- who have friends.

Also, if I had someone close enough to work with me, I likely wouldn't be on this board complaining about not having close friends. It's a Catch-22 and advice that makes no sense for someone in my situation. But I've had this in the past with girlfriends who were pretty blunt and harsh with me. Maybe they only touched the tip of the iceberg. No idea.

Yeah I understand. We seem to have some quite different problems. I get how its likely rather isolating for you and unfortunately I dont have any tips or recommendations for you. Thats good that you managed to get trained so well in social functioning. For me, I cant keep on track socially too well beyond a scripted, purposeful, social interaction. My greetings, small talk and social timing sucks basically. I am not very good at informal chit chat. People really dont understand it because I am very good with a 1 on 1 specified agenda.

for me it is conscience thing, if I drop the act or lose track of what was said or going on, then I clearly feel like a fish out of water. I guess I'm good at pretending to do both. definitely not natural to me.

I'm wondering if I actually have a co-morbid that gets in the way of having friends. I'm diagnosed with APD, but some things don't fit. I wonder if the diagnosis should be Borderline Personality Disorder instead since it has enough overlap with Avoidant Personality Disorder to make it reasonable that avoidant would have popped up on the doc's radar.