Never enough rules.

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Like most on here, every day for me is a day where I have to make a new rule to try and socialize just enough to get by. I just had to make another rule and it frustrates me because it show illustrates how disconnected I am.

I have had a history of saying either very self depracting things or completely off-the-wall arrogant things. Both times, I meant them as a joke. However, I just found out people were taking me seriously, particularly on the arrogant things. I'll say something in what I think totally comes off as a joking voice on this on-line game I was playing, "Cuz I'm a super-geeenius." Well, I found out that the people I was talking to told my best friend that, "I know he's really good at making a computer do things, but he doesn't have to say things like that."

Now, here are the things that made what I said okay in my mind:

1. I felt my tone made it pretty obvious I was joking (but I can't do tone right).
2. What I was saying in that context was so over-the-top that nobody could believe it (but, apparently, they were, which I find offensive: how could they think I actually think that way about myself?)
3. My character is a gnome and his history is made up of that kind of behavior and I'm set as a "roleplaying" character (so, it built a proper context!)
4. We weren't talking about anything even remotely close to computer programming (so, the only thing I'm good at shouldn't even come in to play; who would be thinking of that at that time?).
5. I am not the top player in our "guild", so there is no objective evidence of me being a genius of any sort (so, I know enough not to talk like that if I'm in the lead, but if I'm not in the lead, it's obvious then that I'm joking... right? Or do these people think I'm entirely self-deluded?)

I talked to my buddy, who informed me about the problem (somebody mentioned it to him last night) and he laughed about how I can say things and have the whole room turn quiet that anyone else can say without a problem. This is just one of those times. What scares me as that I have used that kind of humor at my new job and got a cold response. It certainly didn't "feel" like the wrong thing to do at the time, but now when I look back, if people can take that kind of thing seriously, then wow, I just really screwed up how people perceive of me. I let it drop because of rule: there are no ways to repair a social faux pas other than to let it pass and let time make it dissapear, but how on earth these people could take such a thing seriously, particularly without anything to back it up, is insulting to me.

So, I've made yet another rule: never, ever:

a. Self depracate.
b. Use extreme arrogance as a joke.

What frustrates me to no end is that I didn't realize this was a problem. People just don't like me for so many reasons I never realize until somebody confronts. And then, I wonder, "How the hell did they get THAT impression?"

Lately, I have not had a lot of social interaction. I've been holed up in my apartment and the new job (mercifully) has allowed me to stay in my cube undisturbed for a while. Apparently, this is affecting my ability to communicate... even though I don't feel any different inside. In fact, I'm happy.

It is so hard to go through life being perceived completely different than how I actually feel. It depresses me and makes me feel like I can never get along with people. How do you get along when you have no idea how people are perceiving you? They come up with all kinds of things that seem like a non sequitor to me when they talk to me and I get blind-sided by things I could never imagine.

I also get a lot of advice from people, like, "Don't worry about what people think of you." Then, I have opportunities taken away from me because of perception in life. It's one of those many pieces of advice that are totally off-the-wall wrong, yet people seem to keep asserting like zombies.

Sorry, I had to vent. I want to give up and stop socializing entirely, but life doesn't give me that option. Just another 40 years or so and the problem will solve itself, but until then, I have to endure people. If only I were rich enough for people to think my behavior is eccentric? Look at Bill Gates (oh no, he mentioned BG, he must think himself BG, and he is an arrogant jerk, and...)... he has AS and treats his employees terribly, yet he is revered. If he didn't have the money, people would just think of him as a jerk.

Hey, I think I just worked out the solution to my problem!

I like this kind of humor and always assume that some ones joking if they self-depreciate(my specialty)or mock brag.(Which is more common among males?)I cant give you answer to why they responded as they did...sometimes I think people just look for something to dislike about people so they can feel superior?The shocked or confused "pause" has followed me my whole life.
Most folks just dont "get me".I avoid them when I can.

I relate to what you say. It all comes, I guess, of being wired differently. There is always going to be that shocked, puzzled, or blank pause after a joke or a statement. My face still gets warm when I remember trying to joke with co-workers and being completely misunderstood! I am only just realizing that I don't know how to do the non-verbal things that accompany joking, so that I come across as Not joking. Since I don't know how I'm coming across, I have no idea how to fix this.

Man, same boat. I can ALWAYS tell when someone is joking. People think i'm stupid because I'm very good at coming up with something someone 'ignorant' or 'stupid' would. My tone is near spot on. Only my deepest friends understand. I call myself an 'acquired' taste. You need to learn that I, myself, never boast, only speak of truth (no emotions attached).

As well, when I fake 'arrogance' I do too good a job. All these years of acting has allowed me to imitate too well. I can 'fake' falling down the stairs and even better, tripping up the stairs. I did it so well, when I was back in town, the people around me, even though they KNOW I fake it all the time, started stating I really fell (even though I assured them it was fake). Of course, I can't 'prove it' but you think some moron who fakes falling on the stairs near everytime he walks up them, you think they'd catch on but you know what, I still have to tell them I am faking it. I just love slap stick

Thanks, all!

I had a four hour conversation this morning from about 1-5 am., somewhat hung-over, about impressions. Two women deperately tried to explain to me that I come off wrong. When breaking down the conversations, I was able to show that their reactions weren't to me or anything I say, but to their own lives and things that were in ADDITION to what I said that I could not possibly know about.

I came to the conclusion that 2007 will be the year I stop caring what people think, since they are feeling in their own little worlds and that, in fact, I am not responsible at all for how they feel, even if they think I am. I have never before had such a logical reason to stop caring what people think and I have a high as a result. All this energy I expended trying to think my way through social situations has been released. I expect to make enemies in 2007, but even when I was trying, I did that anyway, so really it is just a gain.

I wish that there was a rule book for social interactions. I end up saying a lot of things that I shouldn't, and they're not all related to my obsessions, either.

Glad you came to this conclusion...you just saved yourself years of pointless therapy. I was in my 30's before I realized that
I couldnt control(or even understand)most people reactions to me.Logic doesnt work on people who are reacting from unconscious motivations and projections.Just replace any of those old insecure voices in your head with this one...."I am not responsible for your delusions."

Congratulations! I'm there, too. I actually started last year, and there are a few people who are still hanging on to the impressions that they formed when I was trying so hard to please them. Now my attitude is: Like it or leave it. I am not, as Krex so aptly said, responsible for your delusions.

What were you responding to. The only time I would think someone would respond like that is if they were asked why they did something stupid; ie self sarcasm.


How do you know that the other people had the same train of thought?


If you can't do the tone right, why do think it was obvious that you were joking?


Have you even given an indication that you don't think of self that way?


Did you say it as the character, or as yourself? And were the other people expecting a response from your character?


Do you often bring up your computer abilities?


Quite possibly. I really don't know.



You probably don't realize this, but you're could be trying to impress people.
Since your new there, you aren't in tune with what that crowd if comfortable with.


When a situation like that comes up, have you ever apologized for making an ass out of yourself?


There are no universal rules.


It has been my experience that someone how is self deprecating, or acting arrogant (self important), isn't a fun person to be around. They seem a little, um, self centered.


Maybe you aren't getting to know the person well enough.


It can. Having more interactions will improve your skills.



Maybe you need to work on expressing how you feel.



Don't obsess about how others feel. But don't be ignorant of other's feelings either.



Sounds like you don't really enjoy socializing.

I noticed a lot of generalizations, and absolute statements.
You do know that most things are gray, and vary from situation to situation?

It was an in-game conversation regarding something like completing a quest. Nothing to do with real life whatsoever.

Since we were not talking about anything else but the game, it seems odd to me that they would have been thinking about real life. It must have been on their mind somehow. Since I cannot possibly know that, I've decided to not worry about it.

1. Because nobody short of an inpatient at a mental hospital would talk like that.
2. It was a complete deviation from my base-line behavior.

I'm often told I'm too self-depracating, so yes.

Because it was on-topic with game content and it was far enough away in time, I cannot imagine how they would mix it up with real-life.

Actually, never. I try to avoid it entirely. It really doesn't even fit into the game and would be way too off-topic and awkward (I'd have to purposely somehow rig it in there, and I don't do that).

I'm not sure what part of that you mean, but you're probably right about all of it. I'm no genius and am entirely self-deluded

Wasn't new -- I have been there with them since the beginning for 1/2 year at least. One is a fairly close friend, actually; the one who mentioned it to my other friend, so that is how he knew I programmed computers at all.

The problem is, I don't know it when I do, so I don't know when to apologize.

Yeah, I feel the same way. That's why I'd never do it out of context.

No doubt.

No doubt.

I have spent most of my time trying to figure that out. I have book on facial expressions, Social Intelligence, Communication courses... I spend more time on it than anyone I know personally, and not by a little.

The ignorance you speak of is not voluntary.


Yeah, that is why I started the thread with the title, "Never enough rules." You're hardly the first person to tell me this kind of thing, though. I spent hours being schooled on why to say, with confidence, "God exists," is offensive. It isn't what I said, but the confidence and absolute way I said it. Since it is considered prideful to say with confidence that God exists, yet apparently NOT prideful to believe that a person has God inside THEM (no kidding, this belief was stated by a person who claimed I was prideful!), there is nothing more to discuss with them. Perception is not reality. Perception affects how we interact with reality and can shape our actions that affect our reality, but reality is reality at any given time regardless of how we perceive it and how we feel about it.

It's funny you should mention the absolutes like that (You aren't. H.H. or C.R. are you? I did use your computer... and I may have left it on this thread...). It's the fluid things that I always have trouble with, which is why I gravitate towards computers. They're concrete. What is, is on them and they don't get offended.

I have this sort of problem a lot. I'll say things, and then people will totally misinterpret them, and when I see their reactions, I know I was wrong to say/do that. When I look back the situation from their angle, I can see where they're coming from, but by then it's too late? And it hurts me because I can't stop worrying about what people think. I know I shouldn't be so concerned with how they feel about me, but I don't know how to stop that, and I don't know how to comunicate like other people do. Whenever I try to joke around, people just think I'm serious, and they get insulted or angry, or they just look at me like I'm weird.

Exactly -- and, if you do not react at all, they assume you are angry and depressed. It seems like there is no win.

I feel relieved that someone actually understands !

Now if I could only figure out how to stop being so awkward. I'm lucky if I get "angry and depressed". Most people end up thinking I'm a b***h. If I was a b***h, I wouldn't care how they react, would I?

YES!! !! EXACTLY! It is completely illogical. Isn't it, like, everything you are doing and feel inside is exactly the OPPOSITE of what they say? I've lived with that my entire life as well. I've come to the point where I've just stopped caring because, well, they are really just viewing me how they want to related to something else inside of them that has nothing to do with me anyway (so it's nothing I can control unless I suddenly got myself a Bill Clinton smile or something)

Well, if you can give me any advice on not caring, that would be greatly appreciated. I know that people react to what's inside them and not to what I stand for, they have their own issues to deal with, but still I can't manage to not give a damn. Which makes me try harder, which pisses more people off... Add to that the fact that I tend to take things literally (I'm an aspie in that respect as well...) and you get a really bad mix.

I'll give it a go.

What I learned that swung me to the no-care side was based on that long conversation. The people arguing argued that I absolutely had to be more political and worry about how people think. Now, they conceed that I've never been stupid enough to walk into a room and antagonize people. That isn't my style -- I'm a non-confrontational personality that just wants to be left alone. They are talking about POLITICAL CORRECTNESS... not having strong views to be SENSITIVE. Each reason they gave was what I call "AND". I say A and they react to A AND, the AND being: 1. completely aside from A, and 2. something I couldn't possibly know. For example, if I say something like, "I like Firemen. They're cool," a typical response (strangely, but yes, typical -- is it some twisted luck?) would be silence and then an awkward response, "My father was a Fireman and he beat me." A = Firemen are cool, AND = the perceiver's father's occupation and that their father beat them. (This is a totally fictional example, btw).

Somehow, it becomes my fault, however, that I didn't know that. Something is expected of me -- some sort of ESP perhaps? -- to know. They argued the religion thing -- that some people have bad childhoods that have to do with priests and etc., therefore I should not have strong, confident views on religion. I don't offer them, but if someone asks, I'll tell them, and that is wrong (again, they did not argue that I offer these things.)

So, it's the AND that is the problem. I'm going to guess that this kind of thing happens a lot to everyone, but some people know how to recover through charm and non-verbals that we just cannot, so it's okay. I sometimes listen to people and note how many times they say something I couldn't get away with and, if I use my fingers, I'll run out every time.

So: Since I do not have the non-verbal skills to recover, and their problem is entirely internal, I may regret that someone feels that way, but that is THEIR BUSINESS and, therefore, I should not care because it is NOT MY BUSINESS.

That's how I justify it. It's stuck so far