What should I do about these relationships?

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The first girl, S, I have known since she and I were four years old and were in junior kindergarten together. Our mums knew each other and car-pooled to get us to school. We were in the same class in elementary school most years and she was nice to me even though I was the school pariah and being seen with me was detrimental to her social status. Nevertheless, we weren't exactly friends. We didn't play together at recess or eat lunch together or go to each others houses ect with one or two exceptions. She would just let me follow her around and recite stories at her or answer an endless stream of repetitive questions. I didn't have any friends and was bullied constantly. Then in middle school and high school I ate lunch with her group of friends. I never really talked to them because at that stage I was becoming more socially aware and was quiet and timid. She bought me food at least once when I didn't have money for it and looked longingly at her hamburger and fries from the cafeteria and didn't expect to be paid back. We still weren't friends in the sense that we didn't get together outside of school and didn't really talk much at school either. She was an acquaintance but I considered her a friend, my "best friend", in fact. In the later high school years and beyond that we lost touch.

Five years ago I ran into her (we still live close to each other but our mums don't talk to each other any more) and we talked about university and how we both struggled with maintaining the motivation for school and having been depressed ect. and she suggested we exchange phone numbers and hang out. Then we became real friends. At the time she had a bad boyfriend and she would ask for a lot of advice about him and would need someone around because she was often feeling down (and she likes to have another person with her when she's sad-she's very extroverted). She was clingy with me and wanted to be together constantly. We made jokes about this.

She's very nurturing, motherly, and very socially adroit. She would pick out my clothes when we went out together, fix my hair or make-up and point out social cues or "hints" that I missed and make jokes about them. She would insist on sewing up small holes in clothes that I wore. The holes didn't bother me and I can't sew (manual dexterity problems). When she came over to my house she would fix little things in the house because she's handy around the house and would clean and organize my room. She's very talented at many things and I'm not and could not reciprocate these favours. She insisted on doing them, I never asked her to do these things but then I'd say thank you afterwards. We joked about her being my mum , my older sister, my mum's good daughter ect. We joked about how I couldn't do anything for myself and she'd have to support me when she was older. I laughed at myself. In-fact laughing at me was/is a large part of our friendship. We both constantly make jokes about how absent minded and out-of-it I am and how I don't get things or am slow. For a while her bad boyfriend was putting her down and was mean to her and she started acting like him. Her jokey put downs got meaner at the time and she'd say things like "you should be put down" and "how are you still alive". Now she's broken-up with that boyfriend and this has stopped. After she broke up with the boyfriend she wanted to go out with me all the time and would pressure me to go out to noisy , crowded places like bars and house parties even though I didn't like them. I met her other friends. They didn't really like me much and didn't want to hang out with me apart from with S.

One of her friends that we often hung out with, C, was a member of S's group of friends who I ate lunch with in high school but didn't speak to. C is also a very ebullient, socially adroit person. When S, C and I hung out, S and C would often engage in witty repartee (banter) which I didn't understand or was slow to pick up on. I couldn't tell when they were being sarcastic or joking or really insulting each other or what and a lot of the times I would just tune out of the conversation. Then my being spacey and absent -minded (tuning out) and being slow and not getting hints became a large part of their banter. This was not enjoyable for me but I wanted friends so I didn't do anything about it. C went off to teach English in Korea for a few years and only returned a couple months ago.

Continued:

A few years ago I decided not to go out to noisy, crowded places any more since I find them overwhelming. S was very disappointed about this but eventually accepted it and came over to my house or went to quiet places with me to hang out. S then met a new boyfriend and spent/spends almost all her time with him and has started to distance herself from me, I think. She calls me very infrequently now and doesn't ask me to hang out. I keep thinking the friendship is just over but then she'll call me up a month later and complain about work or ask advise about something. I'll give the advice and we'll talk just like we used to but she doesn't ask to get together and if I ask her if she wants to she says she wants to but is really busy and will call me and make plans later but she doesn't call back. Yet she'll call me three weeks or two months later just to talk. A couple times I called her thinking that I should initiate conversations with her sometimes and maybe the reason she's distancing herself from me is simply that I don't reciprocate her efforts enough. When I did this she'd similarly talk for awhile and not make plans to hang out and not call me for a long time thereafter.

When C came back she invited me to meet with them one time and they both said we should all hang out together a lot in the coming weeks but they never called me to hang out. C even said we "had to get together that weekend" and she'd call me but then S couldn't make it for the weekend because she was busy with her boyfriend and C didn't even call me. Neither S nor C has called me since then - a month and a bit ago.

Then, 2 nights ago, C pocket dialled me twice. I know her phone has crappy reception so I wasn't entirely sure if she pocket dialled me or was actually trying to call me but her phone cut out. I sent her a text asking if she had been trying to call me or if she pocket dialled me by mistake. I was then trying to check the text history on my new smart phone (the phone part of which I hardly ever use) and accidentally called her a few times. So, then she had a few missed calls from me. She called me today and we talked on the phone for a long time. She had pocket dialled me. We had a pretty good conversation but then there was an awkward silence near the end of the conversation and then she said we should hang out and we made plans for tomorrow.

I don;t initiate phone calls or plans to hang out much. I never did with any friend. I'm never sure how often to call and I get wrapped up in my own stuff and forget to call people. Also, with these girls I'm never sure if they truly want to be friends with me or if they're just spending time with me out of pity. Both S and C have "pity friends", they have other girls with whom they spend time because those girls need friendship/support and want to be their friends even though S and C find them annoying. S and C talk about these girls behind their backs. They care about them, they discuss what could be done about their problems but they also make fun of how annoying they are. How do I know I'm not one of these pity-friends. I know S truly wanted to be my friend at first but since she got a new boyfriend and since I won't go to crowded places with her any-more (she goes to pubs and parties a lot) maybe she's changed her mind. I'm not sure C ever really wanted to be my friend. When I say "really wanted to be my friend" I mean found me interesting, fun and intellectually stimulating enough and wanted to spend time with me. I only want friends who meet that description. I don't want any pity friends.

Are these girls just being pity friends to be, just doing a good deed by spending time with me or do they truly want to be friends with me? Is it my fault for not initiating contact with them more often? Should I just keep trying? The thing is, if they are trying to distance themselves from me then why does S keep calling me every month or so? If she isn't then why does she act more distant now and not want to get together? I once asked S to be honest with me and tell me if she really wanted to be friends with me because I don't agree with her having pity friends (which she already knew) and would want to her to be honest and not mislead me in this way. She responded to this by saying "don't be an idiot, of course not, I love you". The thing is S is VERY adept at lying. She's empathetic and has a conscience and so doesn't use this skill for evil but she has it. Also,S once told me that she wouldn't be honest if one of her pity friends asked if she were truly their friend and she also once said that she's NICER to people she doesn't like than to everyone else. She's very NT. Anyway, given all this , I can't really trust her denial of spending time with me out of pity,. What should I do?

Last edited by daydreamer84 on 17 Jul 2013, 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

If she does want to be my friend, is the dynamic between S and me and the way our relationship began so screwed up that the relationship isn't even worth tryng to save?

Sorry for the ridiculously long posts. Brevity isn't my strong suit in writing. I hope someone responds.

Nah, this is fixable if you want it.
I can easily show you how you can do it for yourself and at worse you'll have fun doing it and learn a lot.
Relationship Optimizing and StabilizingAutism/unsolicited-advice

First of all, thank you for splitting the post. If all that info had been in one post, I wouldn’t have been able to get through it TBH, but as it was I did.

I understand that it’s stressful to not know where you stand. None of us can say for sure how S sees you, but from what you say it does sound to me like you might be a pity friend. Sorry!
Even if she wanted to be your friend at first (in adult age, I mean) it’s kind of understandable that she doesn’t want to hang out when you’re not into the same things (bars and whatnot). Sorry, I know that’s not what you wanna hear. It’s different for us introverts (to say nothing of introvert Aspies), we’re happy to do stuff alone, but someone like her, who is social and outgoing, who wants to be with people and like loud places, someone like her is bound to need other kinds of people to satisfy her needs. That doesn’t mean she can’t like you, or can’t be honestly wanting to have a good relationship with you. But it does likely mean that whenever she can choose between doing something with her boyfriend or C, or do something with you, the BF or C will win more often than not.

Do you really need to do anything about it at all? You could just let her call when she feels like going “saintly” and go on with your life otherwise.
Do you like her very much? Do you want to be friends with her? If so, I understand that it would suck to lose her.
If you do like her, maybe you should try to let go so you won’t get hurt.

Asking someone like her how they feel will not accomplish anything. I’d be wary of anything an NT said if asked if they liked me, and anyone like her as you describe her, the more she said she liked me, the less I’d think there was anything to it.

I don’t think it’s your fault for not initiating contact with them more often, because no matter who calls, they never suggest meeting up anymore (as more than a hypothetical meet up sometimes). Even if they’re busy that really says it all.

Sorry, day dreamer!
Personally, and that’s just me, not an advice or suggestion, I think I would have just assumed that she sees me as a pity friend and never contacted her, and quite frankly I would have made it as short as possible when she did contact me (said I had to leave or something).
If anyone called me every 3 or 4 months, I would likely wonder why they called so soon, I’m very asocial and thankfully no-one bothers me that often.

As for them caring yet talking about them behind their backs, it’s very common to blow off steam and talk about the negative aspects of people with others instead of blowing up at them. I’ve done it myself too. It doesn’t necessarily say anything about how one feel about the person, it’s just a way of airing annoyance (at least for me).

Thank you for reading and responding to my post so thoroughly. I think you're right about S seeing me more as a pity friend now. Thanks for being honest with me. The only thing is that I don't want to make her feel like she has to call me every month or so to check on me. I don't want to be an annoying obligation to anyone.

I suppose I do really like her but I have moved on and am less attached to her now.I'm okay with losing her as a friend. She's still an acquaintance who I know I could go to for help if I ever really needed someone and she could do something for me and I hope she realizes that I;d do anything I could for her as well. It's just hard to know where I stand with her, like you said. I feel like I'm getting mixed messages. Why does she keep calling me? My mum said something similar about her needing someone to talk to and genuinely wanting to talk to me when her boyfriend and C or others aren't available. I don't mind it if that's what's going on. I;m alright with being a back-up friend but don't want to be a pity friend. Nobody wants to be someone's burden and good deed to do, I'd assume. Since I know she does that with a couple other girls , I worry she might do the same thing with me.

Actually, I am very grateful that she let me trail her around and was nice to me as a child, then I needed someone to be kind to me even of they weren't a genuine friend but I don't want or need that now.

Don't be a coward. <<voice of experience
Why do you have to give up on her and on a lifelong friendship??

Significant others always get lots of attention especially when a relationship is new. She's not distancing herself from you -in my opinion- she's have a great time with a lover.
You cannot compete with that, silly! =)

You can make this relationship much better, and you do know how -it's locked away in that brain of yours- but it IS there, you can get it easy.

I read your post and thank you v-much for putting spaces between the paragraphs that's a big help for me -bite sizing it. =)
I know what you want, you want to analyze this to death to figure out what to do. That's my tendency so maybe I'm projecting but, nah.
I've been through all this myself too much, most of us here have.

There are no answers in logic. (heresy!!)
The answers lie in action, don't think just do.
Well... good luck with that... Most of us on the spectrum don't find that as our strong spot.

I told you I could help. I told you there's an answer. You didn't really want me to type it all out all over again and hope I got it right and complete, just to be ignored -right? =)

I can help.
It's free.
You could be happy.
You could help others.
What more do you want??

Are you going to blow off this friendship -which YOU are a valuable part of- cuz yur scared of them, after all this time? Don't dump your friends, that's mean.
They LIKED being around you. YOU were good for them!
Not 100%??
Even Jesus wasn't liked 100% so now what? =)


If you just want us to listen and not offer stoopid advice, then avoid posting anywhere that Mr. Fixit Man may be tempted to look.

This doubtless sounds hostile:
A. Imma man
B. I'm on the spectrum.
C. My brain is tired.

But I still like you. =)

I called C to see if she was still going to come over today at 1PM. She was somewhere where it seemed noisy and there were people in the background and she said she forgot and asked if we could reschedule but did not offer a time to reschedule for and said she'd talk to me later. Anyway, I think you were right, Skidpaddle.

Why do people have to say "we should hang out" just to be polite? It's not polite, it's just misleading and frustrating! WTF?

I'm so sorry, day dreamer! I wish it had turned out differently. (hug) I don't think C was ever a friend. As I said in the thread "Does this sound fair?", making other plans without informing people just shows a lack of respect IMO.
And no, it's not polite to say "we should hang out", it's just frustrating and quite frankly bi***y to string someone along like that. I'd take an honest rejection any day! It hurts when it's from someone you like, but it beats insecurity and frustrated wondering about it hands down. Nothing is worse in a friendship/acquaintanceship than not knowing where you stand with them.
That's one of many things I will never ever understand about NTs.

I think 1401b is incorrect when he calls what you and S have a "lifelong friendship". What you had as children/teens wasn't friendship. She was okay with you being there but you didn't spend time together outside school. I guess that was a kind of pity friendship really.
He's correct in saying that significant others will take precedence, especially early on in relationships. That makes it hard to know for sure if you are seen as a pity friend.

Personally I would have cooled my emotions for her and never gotten in touch with her and just see where it goes when left to her. I would try to put her out of my mind as much as possible (not easy for us, I know!), and when(if she called I'd be very wary of her, as she has pity friends and can't be trusted to mean her declarations of friendship. Again, that's just my opinion.
I wouldn't bother with C.



Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I don't wish to be anyone's cause either! And IMO S's history of pity friends and your earliest history aren't good signs.
You could just let her call when she wants without getting in touch with her, and just see where it goes. It would be trying to always wonder if it's genuine, though. You could also not pick up the phone and not call back. She brought it on herself. I don't think it's mean at all to reject someone who's not genuinely into you.
I know what you mean about not wanting her to pity call you, if that's what it is, but IDK how to make her stop it really. Not without being blunt (in her POV hostile).
It sucks that people can't just be straight forward with the important stuff!

I'm sorry they put you in that predicament, day dreamer! I think it would be a good thing for you to focus on other people in your life, or make new friends to focus on (if you want that, of course). If S is just really into her boyfriend at the moment, you can always catch up later. You're allowed to have other friends. Even if there is genuine friendship there, it's not exclusive.

Thank you.



I agree. I think the situation with S is different from that with C and C just sees/saw me as a tag along friend of S's to put up with occasionally.



Exactly, agreed.



Well, I know S and I weren't really friends as kids. When I was 13 and I went for my AS assessment , during the clinical interview I said that S was my best friend and when asked who the closest person to me was, I said S. My mum told the Psychiatrist that S was more someone who didn't make fun of me and was nice to me at school but she didn't get together with me or talk to me on the phone and that I was definitely closer to her (my mum) than to S. The psychiatrist told my mum later that people with AS sometimes mistake acquaintances for friends. I argued fervently against what my mum said, at that time, because I really believed that S was my friend. At this point I understand that she was right (S was just someone who was nice to me and didn't bully me) and I think I understand the difference between an acquaintance and a friend.



Yeah, I won't bother with C any-more . I've decided not to call S but to talk to her when she calls me. My current psych said (I had an appointment today) that she thinks S does genuinely want to be my friend but that we don't have much in common and I'm more of a sounding board for her when things are going badly and she can't talk to her bf. She said when people get older, friends can serve very specific purposes like a friend to complain to, a friend to listen, ect.





Well, that's the thing, she does have a history of taking on "pet projects" and "pity friends" and like you said ,as a kid I was definitely just a little autistic kid that trailed her around reciting things. I can't imagine she got anything out of the relationship at that point other than thinking she was a good person for being nice to me. Now I can listen to her and give her blunt, honest advice about her bf situations which she's said she appreciates in the past so maybe that;s the case. Yes, I really do wish people like her could just be straightforward about these things. I'd make life so much simpler!



That's a good point. I do have another friend whom I met at an ASD support group and she's very straightforward and blunt about these kind of things which is awesome! She's a very good friend, I really like her. She's often busy because she's very focused on her career and school and is a perfectionist (so I don't see her very often either) but I never have to worry about where I stand with her. Besides her, I don't really need new friends in my life. I'm not lonely or anything. I just keep trying to figure out what's happening with S and the idea of being anyone's pity friend just bothers me. It seemed to me like a long drawn out break-up of a relationship where she's trying to distance herself from me but still feels obligated to check on me sometimes. My mum and my psych think she really does still want to be my friend but just that I'm more of a back-up friend , a tertiary friend (after bf and C) or a friend just to sound off to every once in a while. Maybe this is the case. I shall try to forget about S and just be there for her and talk to her when she calls occasionally. There really isn't any point analysing and ruminating over this situation any longer.

first, your avatar looks like one of my best friends. he is out mousing at the moment but is usually faithful about coming to say goodnight and give a hug or few.

the concept of "pity friends" sounds hypocritical to me. I have a difficult time making friends in either spectrum, NT or AS, so I can't provide insight into your situation, but please accept my condolences for the deception it seems that you have suffered.

but, if you can tolerate an online "know it all" who talks too much and considers virtually every difference of opinion as an opportunity for a discussion, then pm me anytime you want or need. I am not good at recognizing social cues so I have to be notified when I am talking too much or appearing inconsiderate

I agree that being a pity friend is hypocritical because a friend shouldn't mislead and deceive his/her friends. I've discussed this with S , in regards to her other pity friends but she sees it in a very different way. She thinks that some people need friendship and support at certain times in their lives and it's kind to provide that and if the other person doesn't know that they're being pitied it won't hurt them. Personally I think that misleading someone as to the basic nature of your relationship with them is wrong because then the person is making decisions based on false assumptions about the relationship. Also, the person has a false perception of the relationships they have in their life.




Thank you. I never PM people first, I just don't initiate conversations that way but if you ever want someone to talk to you can PM me. I'd be the biggest hypocrite in the world if I were bothered by know-at-alls or people who miss social cues and accidentally offend.

thank you