Eye contact

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When I was younger I used to tell my mum I didn't look in peoples eyes because their eyes were shiny. More recently I went to see someone who tried to train me to 'always' keep eye contact. I asked her about people thinking I was staring but she said 'people prefer you to keep eye contact than not.'

However I found the following; people sometimes hated me when I didn't make eye contact because they thought I was rude and didn't care about them (or respect them). When I made too much eye contact people were actually afraid of me. I have looked at youtube apparently you are supposed to look at peoples eyes and look away at the right point (when you or them are thinking so right when you or them have been asking a question or when you or them pause for thought during the flow of a conversation).

Did anyone else give excuses for lack of eye contact?
Anyone else have tips?
Also another thing does anyone else wonder about this respect thing? You can be personable but an ass and people will like you but if you are a genuinely nice person but they feel you don't respect them they don't give you a chance to get to know them.
And something I've been wondering lately neurotypicals seem to be annoyed rather than hurt when they don't get much eye contact with non NTs however do they actually feel anywhere near the same level of discomfort (this is the only thought that would actually make me try to get the eye contact thing right, because maybe I could learn to feel comfortable).
Which leads me to the last question can auties learn to feel comfortable with eye contact? Can auties pass with enough practice?

When I was in my teens I had huge problems with eye contact and was thought of as snobby or weird but I was never aware it was a problem. In my late teens there was no mention from my family or other people about my eye contact. I think it improved but again I wasn't aware. It's only recently that I am really aware of eye contact and it seems the more aware I am of it the harder it is for me to maintain eye contact. I applies to me that I don't know when to maintain eye contact and when to break it. I feel very uncomfortable maintaining eye contact especially on a one to one basis. I do have other problems being in a group situation but eye contact is the one thing that is not a problem for me in a group situation as there is a lot going on that eye contact isn't needed.
I don't think NT's feel as uncomfortable because if they did they would have a better understanding of how it is an issue for Aspies.

This is definitely the case for me. I'm not sure where I am on the spectrum (if, indeed, I'm on it at all), but awareness of eye contact basically kills my ability to maintain it for any amount of time. Catch-22 -- I don't know whether I do okay on that front normally, all I know is that when I consciously try to find out whether I have trouble with this or not, I can't make it at all.

That said, I've been called out for appearing 'distracted' when talking to people before (usually because I was doodling, looking at my hands, myself in the mirror, out the window, or other places at the time).

I also find eye contact easier with people who wear glasses for some reason, maybe because I can focus on the glass or frames instead ... or simply because of the extra barrier, who knows.

That said, I've been called out for appearing 'distracted' when talking to people before (usually because I was doodling, looking at my hands, myself in the mirror, out the window, or other places at the time).

I also find eye contact easier with people who wear glasses for some reason, maybe because I can focus on the glass or frames instead ... or simply because of the extra barrier, who knows.

Ye that is what I'm like as well- looking everywhere but at the person. It is sort of frustrating though I don't know why. I think it is uncomfortable for me because I don't like people looking at me and when making eye contact I get squeamish and am always trying to think what I should be doing. I don't know if that is the case with other people.
That is an interesting observation about the glasses. So if we just give all NTs a pair of sunglasses we will be grand.

I thought this was just me!

I try to look at their nose or eyebrow or cheekbones or somewhere in the vicinity of the eyes. If you are not really close, they usually don't even notice. But there is still the looking away at appropriate times that's a bit of an issue. I use distractions around me; if there is a siren going off I'll look in that direction, if there is a laugh, a cough, a mobile going off, whatever. As long as you are in a public place, and don't do it at every single noise, it actually works well for me.

Actually now I come to think about it I think there was something on youtube with this guy who had autism. He was talking to people about how hard it was for an autistic person to make eye contact. I think he made them make continuous eye contact and he stated that the nerves they felt from that was similar to what an autistic person felt when they were forced to make eye contact.

In terms of finding time to look away is there some kind of percentage eg a person generally spends approx x percentage looking into someone eyes (if they have a standard level of intimacy (people who are dating look longer)).

Somebody here posted a thing the other day about how in autistic people, the amygdala (the part of your brain that regulates fear) is over-active when making eye contact and so they tend to have an anxiety response when looking in other people's eyes.

This jives with my own personal experience which is that eye contact is sort of like getting shocked or something; it is very unpleasant and almost hurts, and if I am forced to do it for any length of time I get increasingly panicked.

NTs with social anxiety often have a similar problem with making eye contact.

I am really bad at eye contact due to the 'shock' response I get: even a split second of meeting eyes freaks me out, so I pretty much don't do it. I find that if you at least look at their face that you can get away with not making eye contact in most situations so long as your other social skills are passable. Heck, I don't even look at people's faces most of the time, and I get by. It depends on the situation you are in-- you probably can't get away with no eye contact or face-looking at a job interview or performance review or whatever, but you probably can at the grocery store.

I just posted a link to a really simple website article in another post about body language, may be worth a read?
http://www.psychologistworld.com/bodylanguage/eyes.php

When I was in high school I was told not to look into people's eyes because, "My eyes were lifeless and scary...like the portals into satan's playground." So I guess you should be sure to not look THROUGH their eyes if you're doing it. I always just look at people's mouth's when they talk and try to look at their eyes every now and then when I talk. I don't care if it's wrong. It helps me focus.

My mother used to force me to look her in the eye, but usually it was if she thought I was being dishonest.
The same with my teachers.
I also have low self esteem, am anxious, and generally don't like confrontation.
So I have always associated looking one in the eye as being a case of being ridiculed, questioned or doubted.

In later life I have learned to look at others, though I tend to look at or near them rather than make direct eye contact too much.
I might look at their hair, eyebrows, nose, mouth, chin, lips or other part of the face, briefly meeting their gaze to acknowledge, but not staying there.

I learned early on that if you look down you are seen as subservient, evasive, dishonest, or snobby, whereas if you look up you look somewhat pathetic.
I have had doctors, psychologists and psychiatrists doubt my assertion that I believe I am an aspie as I make "too much eye contact" but it is a learned behaviour, rather than something I do from reflex, and certainly something I have to do consciously.

How do I avoid it? Simple; don't sit in front of someone you are talking to.
Sit beside them, behind them, or anywhere other than face to face.
If you're in a car going somewhere with someone this is easy, as one of you is watching the road, the other doesn't expect to have eye contact.
Otherwise sit on a couch, armchair, or bench or whatever.
That's why it's great going to the movies, watching TV, or going to watch sports; you have something else to keep your eyes on and you aren't considered to be odd by not maintaining eye contact.

I think eye contact is over rated anyway; in the animal kingdom it means you're worried about becoming a meal, considering something will become your meal, or you are sizing someone up as a sexual partner; I think the animals have it right.
Those that think eye contact reduces the likelihood of being lied to are kidding themselves; liars and con artists are even more conscious of eye contact than us Aspies, and if they can fool us they can easily fool NTs.

Oh and I've also come across a dead body in my lifetime, looking in those lifeless eyes has been enough to put me off too much future eye contact, lest the memories come flooding back.

I don't care about eye contact. Don't even know how often I look right in the eye. If someone tells me that's rude or impolite I would feel very insulted and will most likely stop talking to them. If I am in a conversation I want to have a decent talk, not rubbish chit-chat like eye contact.

I get angry whenever I'm told to make eye contact. I can't stand looking in someone's eyes. It doesn't feel right and they are too distracting. If I make eye contact, I can't process what you're saying. If you force eye contact on me, I cut off from you until you stop.

I never made an excuse. I just out rightly said "no."

I get mad too. Customers tell me to look at them and it makes me upset. "Look at me"
"Why?"
"Excuse you. Look at me because it's rude. You're rude!"
"I saw you earlier. You walked in, then back out, then in. You stood by the big poster of Thor, fiddled with your cellphone, walked around our gaming area, and walked over here. I saw you."
"Well. You're still rude!"
Uh, okay. Don't judge me. I think you're rude when you tell me to do certain actions, or how to feel. Humans.

Eye contact probs where part of what led me to develop a social phobia that was quite hard to overcome.
Still causes probs now (eye contact not phobia) but usually I just make sure I'm busy so talk and work hence looking at work and glancing at colleagues.. Otherwise it is very awkward, esp staff meetings etc. when
people get friendly. I have learnt to be friendly but concise, this does label me as a bit distant and private but that's OK & better than explaining to people. Also means I am ahead of the game and now their manager (literally, I got promoted : ) It pays to read alot, be busy/proactive, avoid idle chatter & learn the job inside out. I love systems so I created them and others use them and are part of them.

I cannot decipher what their facial expressions mean so maybe I tended to unnerve people by studying there faces as I tried to decode them, can really freak ppl out as it probably feels quite predatory that I see them as an object to be studied so I compensate for that with an act I created from observing other more sociable people, somewhere in my head is a vast catalogue of scenarios, I just need time to reference, recall and react, my approach above I guess.. We are awesome people and have very powerful skill sets that take a few years to develop.
No wonder I work in mental health after years of trying to understand people and work out their motives & behaviours, most of which are usually logical when you have enough data.

I guess this has also led my to be a good listener as I don't appear to judge as there is little emotional feedback to the person talking, which turns out is great for helping people in a mental health crisis, though well timed gestures of empathy are required. This is only good as I am sincere in my efforts to understand and help.

How does this come over to you?