Panicking when negotiating social outings

Post Reply New Topic

I've been trying recently to make more connections with people, to convince myself that I do have the capacity to make friends, not just cling madly to one person at a time. (Brief background: I hadn't had a close friend for years, made one, we got married, and I panicked and divorced her.) I've just run up against a feeling recently that's been one of my defining feelings when around anyone I like, friendship or romantic, and that usually leads to me tearing down the relationship. Since it was a big part of me losing my marriage, instead of just frowning at it this time, I thought I'd see if anyone else has run into it.

In a nutshell: I reach out to make contact with people, whom I want to be in contact with, and then I panic and resent them when we start to negotiate about what we'll do and for how long. Which. Said offers to socialize are exactly what I made contact with them *for* and negotiation is par for the course.

Example: I know a woman from college who's pretty cool. She's had some experiences similar to mine (tried a same-sex relationship--not with me, I should add!--in part because she thought she wouldn't ever find men who accepted women who are brusque and not skilled at presenting femininely or interested in doing so, found that it didn't work out for her). She's got a good sense of humor, is good to talk to, and now lives up in Vermont with her fiance. She's made an effort to invite me out to eat with friends of hers in the past, and I've always enjoyed it. She's offered to let me come up to visit in Vermont, and I did my usual hemming and hawing when presented with a social opportunity, and then said sure. I like seeing new places, and have never been to Vermont. I also feel a bit obligated to attempt Vermont, because I want to be friends and I want to try doing new things.

I picked a weekend that worked for her, figured out when trains would run, and told her when I would arrive and depart. She then said, well, two days of train travel for just two days of visit sounded like it would make it sort of a tiring rushed trip for me, maybe I could go a day or two longer?

She's right. It's probably true that making the time in Vermont three or four days would make the trip nicer. But, though I haven't told her, I immediately went into panicking resentment second-thoughts mode.

This drives me up a wall. Particularly with travel, if I offer a plan and then someone counter-offers, I get twitchy and distressed, even when the counter-offer is not at all combative and just a suggestion. Getting that counter-offer makes me doubt my own first offer (was it a stupid idea? Should I not have tried to reach out in the first place? Will I just be stressed out and frustrate myself and whomever I'm hanging out with and waste both of our time?) and makes me feel obligated to take the counter-offer because I've trained myself to think my own offers are usually half-baked, unreasonable, and not much fun. So I go from feeling in control and like I'm doing something that's good for me and could be interesting to feeling like I'm in over my head, throwing away too much money or time if I accept, and coming off as weird.

It happens even when the other person is not explicitly making a suggestion, too. On one trip with my spouse, I remember being enormously relieved that weather hit and we had to go home early in part because we were surrounded by potentially fun things to do (renting little goofy beach buggy/bike things and scooting around town, trying different restaurants, touristy beach town stuff), and I suspected she would want to do those things and that, if she asked, I would dither and panic because I would have to work out if I they cost too much to make me feel comfortable or if I just felt uncomfortable doing them at all, and then I would end up asking her if we could just walk around and look at things and swim and then feel like I had denied her (and myself, that's the kicker--usually *I* wish the fun things didn't make me uncomfortable, too) a good time that she could have had without me there.

I like new experiences, and I like having fun. I would love to socialize with people! But I hate resenting everything and everyone involved, self included, the minute variables are introduced. And I hate feeling attacked, defensive, and insufficient when interesting things are happening or when people are making completely reasonable suggestions.

If I'm with someone less social-plan-making/fun-having than I am (a rare thing, but it has happened), I am completely comfortable throughout a trip because I get to choose everything that happens. I get to make the suggestions and it's up to the other person to say yes or no, so I never end up feeling unreasonable, dull, or stuck. But the minute someone counteroffers, I feel on the spot, liable to brain-lock and shut down any chance of socializing--and possibly shut down the relationship entirely.

I hate it. I like people who can make plans, and I want to be able to be friends with them without anger and panic. I don't like only being able to maintain friendships that are either very very casual or in which I can always take initiative, control the outings, and know I'll never be a disappointment to the other person because they're unexciting even by my standards. That's a hell of a recipe for healthy friendships

I don't have anything profound for you, but variables mess me up as well. Then I panic. I allow my anxiety to control me and typically back out or avoid social settings entirely. I have been told that I am missing out on wonderful things because I won't maintain a friendship. I am married and have decided to start with my husband. I am trying to be less isolated. I do attend a monthly ladies group and have been asked out to dinner. I am going to give it a try. It scares me to death. I don't have any friends because of social blunders and anxiety. I am having my shrink coach me through this process. I am happier when I have some positive social interaction.

I think starting to try new things with a spouse is probably one of the safest, most comfortable ways to try new things, so I wish you luck! During my relationship with my ex, the best parts were when we would go out and do things together and I didn't feel pressure to be 'interesting,' I just felt accepted and supported. It was the nicest I've felt in my life. (I'm not sure when it changed and I started feeling disappointing and scared. I think after getting married and realizing I'd have to change countries to live with her, not just visit her often.)

It's tough wanting positive social interaction and not quite being able to manage it. I end up backing out of a lot of things I promise to do (and want to do) because, like you say, they can scare me to death! Starting small and just doing one or two things with people who will understand if I back out seems to be the best I can manage so far. I hate it, because the people who will understand if I back out are so rare and so patient with me and it makes me feel like I should be able to do more than I can so far. I want to show them that I'm grateful and value them, but it's easy to panic and cling or push them away instead.

my friends will never tell me where they are going out or make excuses such as no money work ibn the morning etc so i end up staying home on my own

See, I'm a bit opposite of how you are. I would like, in theory, to have friends to talk to or be around now and then, but once I initiate interaction with people and they want to meet up with me, I utterly dread the thought of going out to socialize, and usually find some excuse to get out of it, eventually ending the pre-relationship.

Something I found that may help you is putting myself in situations where the focus isn't the actual socialization, but the socialization is still facilitated. For me it was joining a random club or interest group in highschool, or my best example, being forced to be around the 18 students in my major at college. We hung out a lot at the beginning, of course, trying to bond and get to know each other, but what really made the "friendships" develop was simply the fact that we have to see each other so often and we must focus on the same goals in class/ group meetings each day.

Granted, I made the mistake I always make when I finally find friends, becoming too emotionally involved and invested in the relationships, and now resent many of them after seeing their true, confusing colors. But, as long and you keep things light and remember that friendship isn't necessarily meant to be the magical life-long soul-bonding experience some people (or at least, I) imagine it to be, gradual introduction to people through groups can help. And if not, so what, you'll still be in a group doing some hopefully interesting activity, even if you aren't making a bunch of friends. No harm in trying!

I suppose some ideas for working/non-uni adults could be taking a yoga or fitness class, where there are only brief windows of time where you are expected to interact with others (because you have to focus on the activity), or perhaps a cooking class or foreign language course offered through local community education. A little on the boring side, perhaps, but ti's a start!

@RikkiK That's exactly how I'm most comfortable socializing: Doing something that requires being around other people, but isn't solely *about* being around other people. For instance, I've started playing Netrunner recently (a living card game), which works well. Getting together with other people becomes about playing the game, not about socializing as a sole activity. The trick is that I'd like to feel comfortable just socializing and going with the flow around others! Another trick I've discovered is bringing my knitting to socializing-only type events (as long as they're fairly casual). If I get restless, I can knit, which works as (I'm fairly certain) a stim and also tells my brain that I'm 'doing something worthwhile' (that is, goal-oriented), while still letting me socialize around it. Knitting is fairly harmless-looking, though a bit eccentric, and it often starts conversations. I'm really grateful that I discovered knitting.

My BA is in theatre, and, looking back, I think I chose the major for the reason you're describing--it let me be around a lot of people while not having to work with them, per se. Actor-types are very inclusive and theatre is very tolerant of having people just hanging around on the fringes, and a theatre major is just about the only major I can think of where a class of students operates as a whole, taking part in the same shows, hanging out at the same parties, etc. It's a major you can't be solitary in. It's also essentially a useless degree, unfortunately! Oops.

Interesting! That's how I've always thought of friendship, too. It's only recently occurred to me that, by NT standards, I likely *do* have at least 3 or 4 friends. I just never (or never until recently) called them that, because I somehow expected 'friend' to mean something much more intimate than it seems to. I'm practicing calling them friends now, to see if I can get used to it. I find that my expectation of some profound connection also means I can 'fall in love' with just about anyone I like a lot, which is frustrating and plays absolute hell with my understanding of my sexual orientation. Since I'd like a bunch of close friends, and since I 'fall' for anyone I establish a close relationship with, even other women, I end up shooting myself in the foot, socially, since being in love with multiple people at once is contrary to my own understandings of what love should be and being in love with all of my friends is contrary to my understandings of what friendship should be.

Crearan - It's funny you should mention theatre, I'm an Acting major. So, of course we're expected by our program heads to be fairly close with each other. It hasn't been a problem in class yet, but I don't have much of a relationship with them outside of that (and a lot of them hate me now for actually voicing the fact that some of the things they are okay with morally appall me....like a room full of sober males getting the one drunk girl in the room to take her top off for them. Everyone tells me I overreacted? Last I checked, that wasn't okay.) Although, I have found it fairly easy to continue working with them in our scene work. They're my professional partner there, but outside I would rather not associate with them.

And I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who uses vaguely social settings to interact with others!

I get the impression vaguely social settings are the lifeblood of ASD socialization. I was reading an article on individual sports over at the Musings of an Aspie blog and how being on a 'team' of, say, runners or archers or similar can make it *look* like you're working with others while at the same time you don't really have to be working with them, you just all have to be doing your personal best in the same vicinity, and it made perfect sense to me.

I'm with you on that not being overreacting. While I was in school, I also kept my interaction with others usually to productions and to hanging out in the student lounge between classes. That way, I could be around people without being around them when they were all smashed and transgressing social boundaries willy-nilly (actors seem to spend about 2/3rds of their lives smashed...). I went to a few parties, but I could never enjoy them. Nowadays, I'd probably find a way to make them work--take along a low-alcohol beverage I like (I hate beer and don't like getting toasted) and hunt for the few other people who seem quiet. But at the time, I had no idea what to do to make the parties work for me or to try to find or make an alternative for me and others who were quiet. And, yeah, when you're around a bunch of drunk students, it's always a case of, when should I step in? When is what's going on not right? Considering it seems like they always end with at least a few very drunk individuals heading off to bedrooms together or people encouraging people to drink who really shouldn't...

There was another student in my year who had ASD, much more noticeable than me. He did terribly at the parties; he'd drink whatever people put in front of him, trying to fit in and relax, I think. Not good. Theatre parties are definitely not the right environment for everyone.

Ha the accuracy. Neither of the theatre programs in my high schools were into partying much, but in college, heavens...."the drinking department has a theatre problem" as the saying goes. I find I am much more comfortable drunk though, as anything I say wrong is easily brushed off as a drunken comment, or is forgotten by the next day. I'm also just generally less self-conscious because a) well, that's the beauty of booze and b) I don't feel any need to impress the drunken idiots who are all over each other at parties.

And the kicker with that story is that she was the only person who was drunk whatsoever...the guys were all sober...never okay.

**end of personal anecdote**

When I am not assertive enough or pro-active enough for my rights, I feel like that (upset, trapped, fight-or-flight). It is my responsibility to make sure that I will feel comfortable overall, however.

When I think, "Yes, I can put up with this for a little bit longer; I can be flexible," it often backfires.

I need to set up boundaries more from the beginning since I have quite a few limitations that I feel quite comfortable with. I am needy. So what. I might be controlling. Good for me. If I admit that to other sooner, and they are actually willing to accommodate that and tell me so, then we can all get along longer and in a more healthy manner. (My friends would be more likely to help me than strangers, of course).

I'm not very good at doing this, yet, but I have a few undiagnosed friends that have a lot of boundaries they need in order to go places or hang out (special food, shoes, lighting, fabric, noise levels, etc.) Them having the self-esteem to ask for what they really do need makes me feel like I can do the same or learn to ask the same for myself.

I might not like my limitations, but I really do have them and I need to learn how to accommodate my needs and quirks.

@RikkiK One of my most 'oh, theatre department' memories: The head of the theatre department walked into the student lounge. The students had a case of Smirnoff coolers out and were playing with a prop gun that looked exactly like a real pistol. He didn't blink, just said hello and kept right on going to his office.

@aspergermarried I think you're right. It's hard for me to admit to my boundaries because they embarrass me and prevent me having experiences I wish I could have. Especially when I want to keep in touch with people who leave the area. For a while, I was in an international relationship, visiting Europe every few months, and I'm surprised I managed that! I think it being international meant that I felt 'safe' on the other side because no one expected me to understand what was going on or act in any particular way except polite and interested. I'm good at polite and interested (and I did love the trips, though I usually melted down at least once per trip and had to sleep like a log every night. It frustrates me to find going on trips is hard again).